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Gretel - how to furl sails


ajromano

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Different boats, different rigs. That's an odd one for her size. A lot of strings to pull for such a small boat. It would be interesting to know more about what type of vessel it is. It's not quite clear from the photo exactly what is going on. Apparently, the boat is rigged so that all sails can be handled from the cockpit, more or less. There appear to be brails on the main and the headsails.

 

It appears that the mainsail is designed to be brailed and the gaff left hoisted, something like the Thames barges were rigged.

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

It's a small boat and doesn't appear to have any shrouds at all, but with so little sail area, she wouldn't need them if she carried a solid mast. What is unusual is that her gaff jaws ride above what would be the hounds if she had shrouds. In this case, the jaws are above the mast bands and the topmast doubling. The jaws would chafe something fierce on the doubling, I'd expect. I also note that there is no throat halyard tackle shown in the picture. I wonder how one gets up there to bend the sail onto the gaff boom, or lace the luff. Unless this is only a partial drawing, or there is some other explanation, I'd say there's something wrong with the picture. 

 

Was this drawing from the instructions in some kit? Was it a Chinese kit? :D 

 

I'd like to know what others think. Can you tell us more about the documentation you've got there?

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Blocks could be attached to eyebolts or rigged to the masts/yards using rope.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Yes, drill a small hole and put the eyebolt into it.  I use CA glue to hold it place, others use epoxy.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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7 hours ago, ajromano said:

This is actually a nice looking little boat,

The plans are based on a Chapman drawing of a dutch pleasure yacht..  I'll post a picture later..

 

Something to be aware of in that new Dusek version of the kit.   The base for the cabin roof is too small.  You will need to make a new one based on the plans..

 

Gretel2.jpg.e27182ba72e724c72a11ed5845c3c253.jpg

Edited by Gregory

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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The rig in the later drawing above is more detailed. I see there is a shroud and a running backstay and the throat halyard tackle is pictured. As a period yacht, it is what we modernly call a "character boat." It's a reduced-scale pleasure boat version of a larger vessel, something for people who want to make believe they are sailing a bigger boat. In and of itself, a square topsail on a boat of that size wouldn't be all that practical and inefficient. It would reqiure to much work to set and manage in return for the motive power it provides. On the other hand, character boats can be a lot of fun and that's the whole point of a yacht.

 

I didn't check Chapman to see what the source plans were, but I suspect that Chapman may only have provided the hull, but not the rig, which was a later interpretation of the kit designer.

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Chapmans rigs for the small vessels are not always correct (too much sail)

the square topsail looks too heavily rigged: normal Dutch habit (even on the larger yachts), was to have the topsail 'flying' without lifts on the yards, and without clewlines). I don't think gretel was a Dutch yacht: there are no leeboards.

IMG_0898.JPG.27987e1de403955131bc51e789042e2e.JPG

Compared to the ships inthis drawing, the square sail is too heavily rigged, and the gaf is set too high: as the stay is around the mast, the gaff should not be higher than the eye of the stay.

apart from that, I should say that the rig is fairly standard for the time and the region.

 

Jan

 

 

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Here are the Chapman Drawings

 

ChapmanGretel.jpg.0ff031085d02d9ad4b0977725068ee0e.jpg

The description is Pleasure boat or Yacht.  No mention of Dutch, so that was my mistake. 

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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I quite agree with your assessment that the sail plan looks oversized. That said, note that Chapman shows two, or perhaps three, shrouds, no running backstays, and places the gaff jaws properly below the hounds. The model plans are clearly in error and not an accurate portrayal of Chapman's drawings. This kit is going to take some research and substantial "bashing" to get it corrected. Par for the course with a lot of kits, but, IMHO, these are pretty glaring discrepancies.

Edited by Bob Cleek
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The interpretation appears to be logical in some respects, like the braces and vang.  The topmast doesn't look right. 

But there are others who know far more than me.

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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This is basically a training kit. If I wanted truly accurate I would scratch build or get more accurate kit. (Assuming there is such a thing) This kit was on sale and had additional discount applied. Wood ships and boats are such fun to build! Very challenging.

 

Never rigged anything before, I have built several small boats and have current build of brig going.

 

Model Shipways seems to actually be a tad better, especially if one paints ship.

Edited by ajromano

Tony

 

Savannah, Georgia

 

Multi hobby nut.

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Tony,

I suggest you start a build log in the kit area.  It's a great way to get help and also it becomes a source other might build this model.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Properly rigging this model is not a big deal. All it takes is a bit of research. The rig is pretty much generic. A build log would be a good way to get lots of input on correcting the rig errors. My concern would be that following the kit rigging plan will be frustrating because the inaccuracies will likely make it difficult to rig in the first place.

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5 hours ago, ajromano said:

Should one use bees wax when rigging?

For the rigging?   It's your choice.  Some do, some don't.   Some use white glue and water.  Others use nothing.  I tend to do a mix....  bees wax on long cordage and for small stuff.... the glue and water mixture.  As they say, "your mileage may vary.":).  

 

Best way is as always.. test first.  If no bees wax at hand, find a soft candle for testing to get an idea.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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I got my brick of beeswax at the hardware store.

Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans)

1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships)
 

On the building slip: 1:72 French Ironclad Magenta (original shipyard plans)

 

On hold: 1:98 Mantua HMS Victory (kit bash), 1:96 Shipyard HMS Mercury

 

Favorite finished builds:  1:60 Sampang Good Fortune (Amati plans), 1:200 Orel Ironclad Solferino, 1:72 Schooner Hannah (Hahn plans), 1:72 Privateer Prince de Neufchatel (Chapelle plans), Model Shipways Sultana, Heller La Reale, Encore USS Olympia

 

Goal: Become better than I was yesterday

 

"The hardest part is deciding to try." - me

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