HMS Victory by mfrazier - Sergal 782 - 1:78 scale

[mfrazier]

I have mulled over all the choices and now I  can finish the first layer of planking as soon as I make the new gun port template.

 

Mark Frazier 

[MikeE]

Hi Mark, I'm working on this Victory as well. I will be following with enthusiasm! I'm about at the same place you are

[mfrazier]

52 minutes ago, MikeE said:

Hi Mark, I'm working on this Victory as well. I will be following with enthusiasm! I'm about at the same place you are

Hi MikeE,

 

Are you building a Mantua Sergal kit?

 

Mark

[MikeE]

Yes. The Sergal 782. I am doing the decking now. I usually do the deck planking before starting the hull planking.

 

I am learning a lot from your blog. My kit came with 2 different kinds of hull planking wood.  Balsa and lime. The directions say to use either. Is your kit the same? Which way did you go?

 

Mike E

[mfrazier]

3 hours ago, MikeE said:

My kit came with 2 different kinds of hull planking wood.  Balsa and lime. The directions say to use either. Is your kit the same? Which way did you go?

My instructions ( I use that term very loosely) covers both woods but my kit only came with lime wood.  I don't think I  would have used the balsa anyway. 

      There is so much wrong with this kit, I  will end up replacing and/or scratch building a lot of it. All my wood is very poor quality. It is very dry and brittle. The edges are all pretty rough. I run a sanding block over the edges of each piece before using to make them usable.  The deck planking was horrible. The wood was dry and brittle  and the sizes were not consistent.  I used some of it and replaced some with planking left from a previous kit. I ordered the Caldercraft figure head, ( the kit figure head is just horrible), fire buckets, and cannot balls ( I  couldn't believe they didn't supply cannon balls with the kit). I have also ordered some wood strips to rebuild the stern galleries. I found I  must keep looking and thinking way ahead to avoid mistakes and problems. Like the gun ports. I checked the pattern against the keel and bulkheads before I  started planking and saw a problem. Otherwise it would have been a mess had I  done the planking and then tried to follow the instructions. I am interested to see how you handle this kit. Have you started a build log?

 

Mark

 

[MikeE]

I'm sorry to hear you are so dissatisfied with your kit. I have not started a log of mine. I'm afraid I'm not very good yet. At least not good enough to impress anyone. I've been doing this for about 20 years and have accumulated many kits and quite a man cave full of modeling tools. I really enjoy this and will continue for the rest of my life. The one thing that stands out about this particular kit is that I kind-of like the deck planking. It is darker (walnut) than others and looks good. I cut all the strips into set lengths and place them in a alternating pattern with contact cement. I have placed all these lengths together and used a magic marker to darken the sides before but didn't really see the advantage. Your attention to historical detail is great. This is the first time I've heard of companies that sold detail parts. I'm still learning. Thanks for your log!!

[mfrazier]

33 minutes ago, MikeE said:

The one thing that stands out about this particular kit is that I kind-of like the deck planking. It is darker (walnut) than others and looks good.

My deck planking was very light in color. The walnut strips in my kit are for the second planking layer. You should start a build log as you will get a lot of help from the members of this forum if you want it. I wouldn't worry about how good you are. I am certainly not in the league of some of these other fellows ( there are some astonishing builds on here), but it is nice to have the help, opinions, and suggestions you can get on here. When I  had to settle for this kit instead of the one I ordered,  I  searched the internet and could not find any completed builds of this kit. I wondered why?

       Hopefully I can get the first planking done in the next couple weeks. Keep me posted on your progress. 

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited April 24, 2020 by mfrazier
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[MikeE]

This is how my decks look. I did not receive any light colored planking in the kit. At this stage it is not finish sanded nor has the finish applied.

Any pointers ?

 

[mfrazier]

MikeE,

 

They must throw anything they have lying around in these kits.

 

What I  did , after a light sanding to level the deck surface, was use a .5mm drafting pencil ( mechanical pencil you load .5 mm lead into), with a ruler, I drew a line on the seam between the boards and across the ends of the boards.  Depending on how heavy a line you draw makes it darker or lighter. Then used 220 sandpaper to sand the decks a little more so the lines were all even colored  and not too dark. This simulates the caulking between boards. Like the photos of my decks here:

  I  finished the decks with a gloss acrylic coat I  got at the art supply store.  I brushed it out thin so it wasn't real shiny. They came out good.

 

After the finish sanding, you may have to lightly touch up some areas with the pencil again before finishing. Just use light pressure to keep the line matching the surrounding areas.  ( if you get it too dark, just hit it lightly with the sandpaper).

Mark Frazier 

 

[Old Collingwood]

I know I said it before  - but that is very nice decking  just the right colour I think.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

49 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

I know I said it before  - but that is very nice decking  just the right colour I think.

 

OC.

Why thank you,  OC. I worked hard to try to make it look nice.

[mfrazier]

I am still planking away on the first planking layer. This is how I  get myself in trouble, ( but I  always seem to manage a way out), I  lined off my hull and put tick marks for every plank on each bulkhead indicating the amount of taper  needed and theoretically everything would work out even .... BUT .... as usual I  get scared getting closer to the bottom and just had to go start from the bottom and plank up. 

Now hopefully it all works out. AND .... I  was waiting for glue to dry so I  was sitting looking at my book by John McKay to check details and discovered a flaw, a problem, something wrong, (at least in my eyes ). The grates on the gun deck in my kit have doors on the end .... hatch covers ????? ... I  don't know,  but the book  shows stairs in both these locations. 

 

Now, in my mind, this is a problem, .... could I  cut these openings and install stairs? ..... yes .... should I ? ..... I'm not sure.... the kit calls for the doors here... in reality, they are stairs, but once the life boats are installed, no one will ever notice whether they are doors or stairs, but I  will ( sometimes I  hate being a perfectionist). Now don't get me wrong cause I am taking artistic license in the fact I  do not plan on painting the outside of the hull or coppering it, so I will probably follow the incorrect kit plans when installing the wales because they will divide the colors of the wood. So does this give me permission to use hatch covers instead of stairs? .... maybe ...... no not really.... do I  want to cut the deck out and cut up the gratings I built? .... not really .... so why do I  feel the urge to make this detail correct? .... I  have to think about this. What would you guys do? By the way, there are no stairs in  the kit for here. ( asking myself, why does that even matter?) ...... sheesh... back to planking before I  burn brain cells out.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

[Old Collingwood]

Hi Mark,    with the planking  it doesn't hurt doing a couple of rows coming from the keel garboard plank thats how I did mine and others do it the same way,    I have been over Vic  possibly about Three times  years ago,  If memory serves  me  the upper gun deck  under the boats  has Two facing  stairs  following the line of the deck  both looking into the middle.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

18 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Hi Mark,    with the planking  it doesn't hurt doing a couple of rows coming from the keel garboard plank thats how I did mine and others do it the same way,    I have been over Vic  possibly about Three times  years ago,  If memory serves  me  the upper gun deck  under the boats  has Two facing  stairs  following the line of the deck  both looking into the middle.

 

OC.

Thanks OC.,    That was my discovery from McKay's book. Two sets of stairs facing the middle. Now, my quandary is cutting the hole for them. This stupid kit has a panel under the deck in the center 5/32" thick. This would have been easy had I  caught it earlier. I am convinced they did this just to make the kit easier to make ( more convincing a poor company). If ..... if... I can use the right angle attachment for my dremel and a circular saw blade for dremel .... I might be able to get in the space. If this does not work, I will have no choice but to leave it alone and that..... well, won't get into that. I will correct this.... if I  can.

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited April 26, 2020 by mfrazier
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[Old Collingwood]

Another thought  - "Did they put covers over stairway openings during action"   to save  sailors falling  down them at the heat of action?

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

Another thought  - "Did they put covers over stairway openings during action"   to save  sailors falling  down them at the heat of action?

 

OC.

Are you trying to make make accept the kit way?? I'm  just kidding.

 

If they did, McKay didn't mention it. Maybe by the time I  finish planking, I  will have convinced myself the doors are ok..... I doubt it  though.... 😆 LOL.

[mfrazier]

Well .... I made a decision about the hatch covers or stairs (as it should be). While I  found I  can cut the hole for the stairs, there is no place to attach the bottom of them. There is a false part deck in the center but it is to far for the stairs to reach ( unless I  make a really long set of stairs  ... not likely). For this reason, I  will stay with the hatch covers as in the instructions.  If I  had caught this earlier, I  would have put a block in the bottom for the stairs to set on, but I  ain't no way in this life tearing half the planking off to fix something no one will notice, ( at least not in my world).The only person(s) that would ever know is someone like us (and I'm the only one I  know personally). I wish I  could fix this to what it should be, but it just isn't worth the trouble as the view is about 80 percent blocked by the life boats and all the fixtures around this opening. So..... on with the planking and building a Victory.

[clearway]

it is the same with the billings victory- i had to cut out framing below the upper gundeck and install a semi deck between two frames- but yes the boats will hide most of that area anyways.

[dafi]

There was a solution as the companion ways needed to be covered to work the capstan. See this contemporary model with the 2 lids in front of the capstan.

 

Amazon class Frigate; Fifth rate; 32 guns

SLR0315 https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66276.html

Scale 1:32. Built at this slightly larger and unusual scale, the model is a fine example of the Georgian style of modelling, with a fully planked hull and partially planked decks. The hull is constructed 'bread-and-butter’ fashion, of wooden planks glued together horizontally and then shaped externally to fit templates taken from the building plans. The wooden core is then gouged out internally to produce a shell of about an inch thick, over which the planking, deck beams and decoration are applied. The model has been made to a high standard of workmanship and includes some fittings not always shown, such as the compass binnacle just forward of the wheel, shot racks between the guns, the hammock-netting stanchions and swivel guns on the ship's side.
Date made    circa 1780
 

[mfrazier]

5 hours ago, clearway said:

it is the same with the billings victory- i had to cut out framing below the upper gundeck and install a semi deck between two frames- but yes the boats will hide most of that area anyways.

That was what I was going to do. There is a semi deck below in the center, but it was farther down and the stairs would have been too long. I was going to put a block on there for the stairs to land on, but I had gone too far with the planking before I  realized this situation making it impossible to do without removing a lot of planking on one side (which I don't want to do because it would get destroyed,  as it is edge glued and glued to the bulkheads) so I  will leave the doors. As we know, they will be hard to see anyway. (unless I  find a way to fix it).

 

Thank you for that info dafi, it  raises an interesting point.  I am not building a Trafalgar model. I know this ship went through many changes from the time it was built until Trafalgar. It  would be interesting to know as many details of when it was built as we do at its present state.

 

Before getting this model, my research showed me that each model manufacturer had many detail differences.  I believe some of these, such as this detail was purely a short cut to make production less costly rather than be historically correct,  but that is just my opinion. I wonder if the original building plans for this ship still exist and what the difference is between then and now. It is things like this that make building the model interesting,  at least to me.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by mfrazier
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[mfrazier]

Well ..... the first planking layer is done and a preliminary sanding.

There are some areas that need a little  filler. I will fill those and sand again. Progress is slow at this point, but how well this is done will reflect on the rest of the build.

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

While getting the hull ready for second planking, I  will start working on the stern. This is the part I  have been worried about doing.  The kit calls for painted wood behind the windows.  I don't like that. I think I  can use the stern parts as a base instead of making everything from scratch,  at least I will try it. The worst that can happen is I have to start over from scratch, but if it works satisfactorily,  things will be easier. 

I made a paper tracing of the stern panel and used it to lay out the windows. 

Next, I am cutting the windows out. I will like this much better than blocking them up.

It is going to take a few days to get all the windows cut out. This panel goes behind the etched stern panel. My plan is to plank the etched panel with 1 mm thick walnut and add trim around the windows.  This will give depth to the rear of the stern and I  can use the pillars between the window rows on the etched panel. I don't know how it will look until I try it, so we shall see. I  need the stern framework on before I start the second planking.

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited May 5, 2020 by mfrazier
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[Old Collingwood]

Excellent work Mark, bet your so pleased  getting the First planking done  (hows your hands from the sanding  - I remember getiing quite saw fingers with mine)    I love the idea of you doing your own rear panel   so many kit ones are lacking.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

4 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Excellent work Mark, bet your so pleased  getting the First planking done  (hows your hands from the sanding  - I remember getiing quite saw fingers with mine)    I love the idea of you doing your own rear panel   so many kit ones are lacking.

 

OC.

Thanks OC.,

     You're correct.  I am so happy to have the first planking done. I am much more excited now. I can't wait until the second planking is done.  I love doing the details.  It only took a few hours to sand the hull and it came out better than I thought.  I needed very little filler. I started sanding with 80 grit sandpaper but it was going to take forever,  so I  went out to my shop and got a 80 grit sanding belt for metal and cut it, put it on a sanding block and it ground that hull down in minutes. Then I  run over it with 80 grit paper and smoothed the surface some.

     The kit stern is really lacking. I will paint the inside of the galleries white. The windows are kind of hard to see in so I  am not going to get carried away decorating the inside. I was going to put the floors in with black and white checked floors but they will be very hard to see so I  don't think it is worth all the work to finish the inside rooms when they can't be seen. I am still thinking about how detailed to make the rooms.

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

A little more progress.  I need to build some of the stern galleries before I can second plank the hull. This meant I  had to fit the poop deck before fitting the stern gallery framework and the ships wheel is needed to fit the poop deck ..... so ...... the ships wheel. The setup from the instructions  .... well ..... it just sucks. The ships wheels were way out of scale, so I  sanded as much as I  could to thin them down without ruining them. I could order some to scale ships wheels but they are 15 dollars apiece and you really can't see much of them, so I  modified the kit ones to look a lot better. 

Now the stand for the ships wheels in the kit is just a piece of plank and looks just awful. I wanted it to look like the real one so I  tried to carve one..... this thing is small and a fiddly little thing to try to make. This was my third attempt and I  finally made something I  didn't throw in the trash can. It is only 24 mm tall. I am happy with this one. ( I can't wait to try to make that tiny binnacle that sits in front of it). I still have to plank the poop deck and I have to put the rope on the ships wheel before gluing the poop deck in place. ( you have to watch that everything is  done in the right order or you end up not being able to do something without tearing something back off).

 

So ..... with that done, I painted the inside of the stern galleries white.

I was going to cut that center part of the frame out as it is right in the middle of the windows, but it is not that noticeable once the windows get installed,  and even less once the glass is put in the windows. And after the panel is planked and trimmed out, everything will blend in well. ( I  can see it in my mind). I have a plan if it works out. I don't want to paint the hull, I  prefer to stain it. I am not intending to copper the hull either ( unless I really screw up the second planking) so the parts that would normally be black ( such as the wales) will be stained ebony black. I probably will paint a few details but most things will be stained.

 

Oh .... and that etched panel for the stern galleries  .... the only part that will be visible, is the cross bars in the windows and the pillar rails between the windows.  I intend to plank it walnut and make molding and trim to cover it. ( I  hope it works out). We shall see.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

That is great work Mark, coming a long mighty fine.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

Thanks OC.

[clearway]

Like what your doing to 3D the stern up a bit- how about painting the stern facing edge of the middle frame black to tone it down?

 

Keith

[mfrazier]

5 hours ago, clearway said:

Like what your doing to 3D the stern up a bit- how about painting the stern facing edge of the middle frame black to tone it down?

 

Keith

 

Keith,

I am not sure what edge you mean.

 

Mark

[Bill Morrison]

Beautiful work, Mark!