HMS Speedy by NewbyMark - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64

[NewbyMark]

4 hours ago, chris watton said:

I often make mistakes (still)! when copper plating and always, and I do mean always, end up removing some I am not happy with. This is the reason there are more than enough spare plates for mistakes.

Well I didn't get much further, tried to use some acetone to clean the glue up and then all the glue went white and I could see just how much was on the faces. After an hour trying to clean it up, I've stripped it back down and started again.  I wasn't overly happy with the lay of the tiles anyway and it's much easier/neater if you leave them joined. I might just be on the phone for some more copper, Chris, but let me see how I get in first. We'll put that down to a practise lap!

[NewbyMark]

Well my second attempt isn’t much better. I am not happy with how much glue is ending up on the copper. I’ve used toothpicks to apply CA to the back of them and then placed them down with tweezers but still have quite a lot on there and feel like taking it off again. I’ve left it for today but here are some pics. Any advice gratefully received.

 

 

[NewbyMark]

Well I think I’ve at least worked out part of the issue. I changed to a thinner glue that spread better when I pushed the tiles down. The thicker glue was leaving corners unglued and is also

harder to wipe off. I tried applying a clear coat to lessen the impact of the glue. I’m not really happy with it, but you can see the better copper further up the hull after I switched glue. I’m not sure I can face ripping it all off and doing it yet again but I think this will consign this model to a practise exercise rather than display as it’s just too much of a mess. I think I’ll leave it for the rest of the weekend.

 

 

 

 

[DelF]

Hi Mark

 

I share your pain - Speedy is also my first attempt at coppering and it's not easy. I got some good advice from Glenn - see the link here. I used Gorilla CA gel, applied with a toothpick. Rather than one blob in the middle, I applied five tiny blobs - four near the corners and one in the middle. Otherwise I found, like you, that the corners didn't stick well. With practice I found I could judge the size of the blobs so none squeezed out. If it did, I tried to wipe it away immediately. For that, I used acetone on a small pad made from a piece of an old cotton shirt. I found with some blobs of CA that I had to rub for quite a while to remove all traces, especially if I'd allowed the glue to dry. It will all come off eventually. I should also add that I wear rubber gloves when coppering - partly to protect my hands but mainly to prevent fingerprints tarnishing the copper.

 

I found Glenn's advice about how to line plates up with the leading edge of the preceding pate (I used tweezers) and adjust them with a metal pointer particularly helpful.  It's worth getting this right, because if a plate is just a small fraction of a millimetre off line it catches the eye. Better to lift it and try again if you can't nudge it into place before the glue dries.

 

Hope this helps, and I hope you feel you can persevere with Speedy.

 

Derek

[NewbyMark]

13 minutes ago, DelF said:

Hi Mark

 

I share your pain - Speedy is also my first attempt at coppering and it's not easy. I got some good advice from Glenn - see the link here. I used Gorilla CA gel, applied with a toothpick. Rather than one blob in the middle, I applied five tiny blobs - four near the corners and one in the middle. Otherwise I found, like you, that the corners didn't stick well. With practice I found I could judge the size of the blobs so none squeezed out. If it did, I tried to wipe it away immediately. For that, I used acetone on a small pad made from a piece of an old cotton shirt. I found with some blobs of CA that I had to rub for quite a while to remove all traces, especially if I'd allowed the glue to dry. It will all come off eventually. I should also add that I wear rubber gloves when coppering - partly to protect my hands but mainly to prevent fingerprints tarnishing the copper.

 

I found Glenn's advice about how to line plates up with the leading edge of the preceding pate (I used tweezers) and adjust them with a metal pointer particularly helpful.  It's worth getting this right, because if a plate is just a small fraction of a millimetre off line it catches the eye. Better to lift it and try again if you can't nudge it into place before the glue dries.

 

Hope this helps, and I hope you feel you can persevere with Speedy.

 

Derek

Thanks Derek, I will review that link. I've just stripped the lot off and Chris is sending me another copper set to try again. The hull is a bit of a mess, which I think gives away that I used too much glue. I will clean the hull up this week, review that link, and try again.

 

Very frustrating that I spent quite a bit of the weekend on this and got nowhere, but if I carry on with it looking like that it will end up in the bin. So I'd rather try again and get it right (or at least acceptable).

 

Thanks for the advice.

[mort stoll]

Hi Mark,

 

I think I'm in the minority as I use contact cement when I copper a hull.  I buy it in 3 ounce bottles, which keeps the fumes down and also apply it with the windows open. The bottle contains a small brush for application.  I brush a thin covering onto the hull - a 3x3 or 4X4 area. I then apply it to each copper plate - yes it's time consuming. By then - approximately 15 minutes - the glue on the hull has begun to cure and I then copper the hull.

 

I like contact cement because I have a few minutes to reposition the plates after I apply them if necessary, as opposed to Ca which instantly dries. If any cement does adhere to a plate I simply and easily peel/rub it off. Finally should it be necessary to slightly adjust or remove a plate after they completely dry I heat the plate with a soldering iron on low heat adjust or replace it.

 

Any questions, don't hesitate.

Keep up the great work.

Hope this helps,

Mort    

[mort stoll]

Hi Mark,

 

Meant to add that since there is cement on both the hull and plate there's no issue with the corners. Should a corner rise up I gently press it down.   

[NewbyMark]

28 minutes ago, mort stoll said:

Hi Mark,

 

Meant to add that since there is cement on both the hull and plate there's no issue with the corners. Should a corner rise up I gently press it down.   

Thanks Mort, that's very interesting. Do you mean the sort of contact cement you use to assemble plastic models? How do you find the longevity of it? Any issues as your models have aged at all? I might look into this - the odds do seem stacked against you a bit with CA, although I clearly need to work on my skills in this area. Thanks for the comment.

[mort stoll]

Hi Mark,

I use DAP Weldwood Contact Cement. It's not the same as the cement you would use on plastic models. Fact is I don't what it's used for.  It's just contact cement.  My mentor used it and whatever he said ALWAYS worked. I have been using it since 1986 with no longevity problems at all.

 

In fact I just had a new can delivered 2 weeks ago for my Victory.  Same brand, it's supposed to be low odor except it takes about an hour to dry. If not I go back to the other contact cement.   

 

Mort   

[James H]

If you have CA marks, just use some acetone or CA remover. You can also tack down the edges of an plates and wipe away the excess, followed by proper removal with acetone.

[NewbyMark]

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice. Chris shipped me another set of copper to try again. I stripped the hull and resanded and finished it over the last two days and the copper arrived today. In between meetings I’ve made a start. I found I couldn’t work in gloves so I do have some tarnishing although to be honest I quite like how copper tarnishes so that’s ok by me. It was all the glue I couldn’t stand. I’m about half way and although I’m not going to win any awards I’m satisfied with the result so far. Thank you everyone and especially Chris for shipping the new parts so quickly.

[clearway]

attempt 2 looks a lot better -after coppering my cutty sark and victory i polished the copper and gave it a couple of coats of lacquer.

 

Keith

[NewbyMark]

6 minutes ago, clearway said:

attempt 2 looks a lot better -after coppering my cutty sark and victory i polished the copper and gave it a couple of coats of lacquer.

 

Keith

Thanks Keith. I am happier with it. I’m not sure I will polish it as I quite like the duller finish, but out of interest what did you polish it with?

[clearway]

ye olde brasso metal polish (wadding type)

[glbarlow]

Copper patinas over time and it evens out. Both my coppered ships look much better with “aged” copper. In my opinion, bright and shiny becomes the main focal point and detracts from the rest of the ship. I wiped off excess CA with acetone and left it alone other than that.  
 

Another point is overlapped copper plates may look off up close but are lost viewing on the shelf, gaps stand out. I mentioned this because I see a gap in your photo. Just a thought...

Edited April 29, 2020 by glbarlow

[NewbyMark]

3 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Copper patinas over time and it evens out. Both my coppered ships look much better with “aged” copper. Bright and shiny becomes the main focal point and detracts from the rest of the ship. I wiped off excess CA with acetone and left it alone other than that.  
 

Another point is overlapped copper plates may look off up close but are lost viewing on the shelf, gaps stand out. I mentioned this because I see a gap in your photo. Just a thought...

Thanks. I think I’m in agreement about leaving it be and letting it dull over time. Yes I have a couple of small gaps. Where I seriously misplaced I took the tile off and did it again, but for some I found it hard to place the tile without any gap at all and these tiles are quite thick so the overlap is noticeable if you have one. I’ve continued further up the hull since the photos and stopped using paired tiles at the bow and stern and went back to singles which helped. I’m not going to strip any more off, but I will keep your feedback in mind as I progress. Perhaps I’ll display it from the other side 😀

[DelF]

That's looking really good Mark - well done for persevering.

 

Derek

[Bossman]

Mark, she’s looking nice!

[NewbyMark]

16 minutes ago, DelF said:

That's looking really good Mark - well done for persevering.

 

Derek

Thanks Derek.

[NewbyMark]

8 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Mark, she’s looking nice!

Thank you 😊 

[NewbyMark]

Well by comparison with some of the beautiful work on the site this isn’t the best effort, but I am ok with how this turned out in the end. I may redo some of the ‘slivers’ of copper at the waterline and I didn’t get the waterline perfect but compared to how she looked at the weekend I’ll take it! I’m not sure I would do another coppered hull though to be honest.

 

Anyway I won’t post about copper again just wanted to show what I managed to achieve in the end. Thanks again to everyone who provided help.

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

Well done on the coppering!

 

A quick word of advice, I would wipe down the hull to remove oils from fingers and seal the copper plating.  I may or may not have left a thumbprint oxidized in the copper plating of a model that I didn’t wipe down properly prior to sealing.  It will still get a nice patina in a couple months.

Edited April 30, 2020 by GrandpaPhil

[NewbyMark]

6 minutes ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Well done on the coppering!

 

A quick word of advice, I would wipe down the hull to remove oils from fingers and seal the copper plating.  I may or may not have left a thumbprint oxidized in the copper plating of a model that I didn’t wipe down properly prior to sealing.  It will still get a nice patina in a couple months.

Thanks. I wasn’t planning on sealing it at all I thought it would all just dull down regardless of fingerprints. Is this assumption incorrect?

 

I still have the other side to do so likely to be a fair few more fingerprints yet 😊

[GrandpaPhil]

The oils in your fingerprints will prevent the oxygen from reaching the copper and that part will not age.  The more the copper oxidizes, the more the markings will be apparent.

 

Sealing the copper (after wiping down), will prevent those marks from forming and prevent more fingerprints from being deposited directly on the copper.
 

I sealed both copper hulls that I made.  One was done last year and the other two years ago.  Both have a nice patina.

[glbarlow]

I agree about wiping it down to remove fingerprints (carefully so the rag doesn't catch an edge of a plate...) and some acetone to remove excess glue, but I didn't seal either of my coppered boats. One is over 10 years old at this point. I don't really touch them once they are on the shelf except the occasional dusting.

 

So it's a choice.

[NewbyMark]

Thanks guys. What did you wipe it down with? 

[GrandpaPhil]

I just used a dry cloth and very lightly wiped it down.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by GrandpaPhil

[NewbyMark]

2 minutes ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I just used a dry cloth and very lightly wiped it down.

 

Oh ok, I thought it would be more technical than that 🙂 Thanks - I will do so. Appreciate all the advice.

[glbarlow]

Piece of old cotton t-shirt 

[NewbyMark]

Well after completing the rest of the copper I've decided to abandon this project. Nothing at all to do with the kit, I just don't like the copper at all and can't see myself displaying this model so can't see much point in devoting more time or money to completing it. It's a great kit, really well designed and thought out and in better hands than mine will undoubtedly build into a great model. Thanks to everyone for their help, especially Chris for the support and sending more parts. Maybe I'll have a go at something else - this just turned out not to be for me.