mpk73 Posted May 30, 2020 Share #1 Posted May 30, 2020 First build here - Virginia 1819. It's been pretty fun and insightful, with a couple of mishaps that I've dealt with along the way, but for the most part I'm fairly happy with where I'm at. However... I've glued everything to the deck before applying poly. I just read the last page of the instructions, which recommends against it, and I've searched the forums here and found others who recommend against doing what I've done, but I was unable to find any results for what to do if you have made this mistake. I'm not looking to make anything museum quality by any means, but after all of this work, I'd prefer not to have something that looks bad. Am I risking ruining it by doing a satin poly at this stage? Do I have to remove everything from the deck, or could I get away with it as it is? None of the brass fittings have been glued and can be readily removed (including the chainplates and the rudder), and the carronade has not been glued, either. Apologies if this covered in the forums elsewhere. I searched and was unable to find a suitable topic. Wacom, mtaylor, Tigerdvr and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 30, 2020 Share #2 Posted May 30, 2020 I believe in using Poly to protect the wood. It doesn't seem to matter what type of Polyurethane you use, satin, semigloss, or gloss, all three seem to have the same sheen. It's not a natural look for a ship model. You can see what I mean by going to my build log. Minwax makes a water based product called Polycrylic that comes in a ultra flat sheen. I have yet to try this product but at some point I am going to buy a can and do a test application of the Polycrylic ultra flat over the Polyurethane. If there are no ill affects I will go over everything with the Polycrylic to a more natural look. I would suggest removing as many as of the deck elements as possible before applying a Poly coat, I think it makes for a more uniform application. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted May 30, 2020 Well, I'm a bit worried about removing any of the pieces without doing significant damage to the decking. I was not sparse with glue... What do I risk by spraying with the companion, barrels, etc. still on the deck? Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 30, 2020 Share #4 Posted May 30, 2020 I'm sorry, I thought the deck elements were still removable, leave the deck elements as is. Try the Poly on a test piece of wood first before commenting yourself. If I were you, I'd try the ultra flat Polycrylic first and follow the directions. I wouldn't spray as I have no experience spraying Ploy. I'd wipe or brush, brushing would allow you to get in and around the deck elements and be more selective in what gets a coat of Poly. If you do use the Polycrylic, please provide pictures. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkeater Posted May 31, 2020 Share #5 Posted May 31, 2020 If you are worried about sheen try Testors Dullcote on a piece of scrap wood. I find it does not give an appreciable sheen and can be used to dull down a sheen from a poly undercoat. mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Completed scratch build: The armed brig "Badger" 1777 Current scratch build: The 36 gun frigate "Unite" 1796 Completed kits: Mamoli "Alert", Caldercraft "Sherbourne" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted May 31, 2020 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2020 First of all, your model looks great especially considering that it's your first wooden ship and I don't thing you need to change anything. I have used Satin Wipe-on-Poly my models. It is very low sheen and brings out the natural color of the wood. I personally think it looks great. Many modelers use Satin WOP and are very happy with it. One of the moderator's here, Chuck Passaro, who also is model ship designer and the owner of the Syren Ship Model Company, uses Satin WOP on his models and they are museum quality. You'll find a lot of differing opinions about finishes here and you'll need to eventually try different ones and decide what you prefer but, for now, I think you are doing a great job. Congratulations. Ryland Craze and mtaylor 2 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaddoc Posted May 31, 2020 Share #7 Posted May 31, 2020 Lovely model indeed, you ve done a great job. Make sure before you put anything on that you wont get a patchy appearance if the coating does not get uniformly everywhere, your deck is pretty busy. Maybe just leave the wood as is? mtaylor 1 Quote Current projects: 21' Fisherman's Launch - plans by Howard Chapelle Hercules Steam Tugboat - scratch build from half model lines Completed projects: 21' Yawl Longboat - plans from the National Maritime Museum Deben 5 tonner - a Whisstock yard design 24' exploration gaff rigged ketch - a Tad Roberts design 15' knockabout sailing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted May 31, 2020 Hi everyone. Thanks for the kind words - I've tried my best, and whatever turns out I'm sure I'll be happy with. I'm not so worried about sheen - anything satin will do. I was able to remove a few things from the deck without appreciable damage. Most of the brass fittings were not glued and came easily, as well as the chainplates and rudder. Unfortunately, the companion, barrels, cargo hatch, carronade ring are all stuck (see attached image for current state). Per vaddoc's comment, is the only thing I'm risking a patchy look due to poor coverage? Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted May 31, 2020 Share #9 Posted May 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, mpk73 said: 'm not so worried about sheen - anything satin will do. I don't understand why you have decided to remove everything you can from the deck when it seems like you are ok with the sheen of the satin WOP? Your boat looks wonderful as it is. mtaylor 1 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 31, 2020 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2020 Great looking model by the way, nice work. You shouldn't have a patchy look issue as long as you follow the directions on the can. Don't keep working the Poly, put it on quickly and let it dry thoroughly before touching it. Using a piece of lent free cloth as an applicator is a pretty foolproof method of application. Mess around with some scrap pieces of wood first to get a feel for the product and applying. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted May 31, 2020 BobG - this is pre-finish. I want to add some sort of protective coat, but I am afraid to at this point since I did not follow the instructions to add the finish before gluing everything to the deck. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted May 31, 2020 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/29/2020 at 5:49 PM, mpk73 said: I'm not looking to make anything museum quality by any means, but after all of this work, I'd prefer not to have something that looks bad. Am I risking ruining it by doing a satin poly at this stage? Do I have to remove everything from the deck, or could I get away with it as it is? None of the brass fittings have been glued and can be readily removed (including the chainplates and the rudder), and the carronade has not been glued, either. 28 minutes ago, mpk73 said: BobG - this is pre-finish. I want to add some sort of protective coat, but I am afraid to at this point since I did not follow the instructions to add the finish before gluing everything to the deck. Sorry, mpk73, I don't think I'm understanding exactly what the problem is. The poly is protective and enhances the beauty of the wood as well. Wipe-on-Poly is very easy to use. I simply wipe in on with a clean cloth and I use a small paint brush to get it into areas that I can't wipe with the cloth. Just make sure you are not leaving pools of poly anywhere. Just wipe up anything that the wood doesn't absorb. I don't see why you would need to remove your deck structures to that. Now, if you mean that you put the poly on but prefer a different finish, then, of course, you'd need to somehow remove the poly before applying a different finish. mtaylor 1 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted May 31, 2020 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2020 You could go old school and use half concentration shellac, followed by full strength. For anything wood that is already bonded, shellac would be good for them too. You can mask with Frog tape ( is it really made in France?) if it worries you. Application - small brush, a small block cut from a low cost sponge paint brush -- Duco a couple of round tooth picks, or a piece of a bamboo skewer for a handle - a square of cotton rag held in a curved Kelly clamp - for fine attention - a Q-tip? Since they are removed, you might consider a blackening Tx for the brass. Search the forums for the topic, The key to success with this seems to be fresh blackening agent and making sure that the whole surface of the brass is absolutely nothing but brass, no skin oils or anything else. mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted May 31, 2020 BobG, To be more clear: the instructions - and various others that I have seen online - have said to apply the finish before gluing anything onto the deck. (that is, not glue anything on until the finish is applied). The problem is that I glued everything down before applying finish. I have not applied any finish at all at this point, and I am wondering if I should remove everything from the deck and apply finish and then glue everything back on, or if I should go ahead and apply a spray finish with everything glued down. Jaager - thanks for the suggestion on the brass. I was thinking about "weathering" it some way to remove the bright sheen, so this is very helpful. I would prefer to use some sort of spray finish (of which you can shellac...) as I am usually not successful with brush finishing in other woodworking projects. I have not been successful with shellac ever, though I guess a thinned concentration would allow for less stressful application. Ultimately, I'd like to just apply a satin poly at this point - but I don't want uneven application on points like the companion (which will be hard to reach using a standard spray can). mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 31, 2020 Share #15 Posted May 31, 2020 mpk73, what type glue did you use? I really don't think it matters because I've looked closely at you work and I don't see and glue smears at the edges of those elements still adhered to the deck. Don't you have something you can do a test on first before making a decision? mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted May 31, 2020 Gorilla wood glue (not the expanding stuff...) - ran out of Titebond and couldn't easily access anything else. Also a bit of CA glue, but used sparingly. There are a couple of places where there was a bit of squeezeout that was hard to clean, but overall there is not a whole lot of visible glue. Is this what I should be worried about, glue smear? If so, I can confidently say that there is little-to-none. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 1, 2020 Share #17 Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, mpk73 said: BobG, To be more clear: the instructions - and various others that I have seen online - have said to apply the finish before gluing anything onto the deck. (that is, not glue anything on until the finish is applied). The problem is that I glued everything down before applying finish. I have not applied any finish at all at this point, and I am wondering if I should remove everything from the deck and apply finish and then glue everything back on, or if I should go ahead and apply a spray finish with everything glued down. Ok, looking at your model I don't see any compelling reason why you would need to remove anything from your deck before applying the poly. If it was my boat I would just use Satin Wipe-on-Poly on everything that is accessible that you want it on. Your boat will be fine if there are areas under a deck structure where can't do that. Simply protect any surfaces by masking or careful application that you don't want to get any poly on. I don't put poly on any painted surfaces or metal surfaces. Poly will not penetrate glue smears so, if you have any, those spots would look different from the areas with poly on them, but it sounds like you did a nice job of being careful with your gluing. The best policy is to avoid glue smears in the first place by being careful and cleaning up excess glue immediately or, if it has already dried, carefully scrape and/or sand the glue spots before applying any finish. I hope this helps. It's not too late for you to start a build log for your model. There are a lot of very experienced modelers on this site that will be more than happy answer your questions and share their knowledge with you. Best of luck! Ryland Craze, mtaylor and Keith Black 3 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 1, 2020 Share #18 Posted June 1, 2020 Basically what Bob said except "I don't put poly on any painted surfaces or metal surfaces." and I'm wondering why? Because of the sheen? I've had absolutely no issues applying Poly to either acrylic painted surface or metal surface. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 1, 2020 Share #19 Posted June 1, 2020 Keith, I've never really thought of using Wipe-on-Poly on painted surfaces or metal. I thought it was a product to be used specifically on wood. I use acrylic paints and generally use a blackening agent on brass and do not topcoat them with anything. I'm not certain if poly would be compatible with acrylics or brass that been blackened either. So, for me, I just don't see a need to put WOP on anything except wood. Bob Cleek 1 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share #20 Posted June 2, 2020 Thanks everyone for the replies! Is there any specific brand of WOP that you use? I'm going to go ahead and order both wipe on and spray, and will likely wipe on portions of the deck and do a spray coat over everything. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 2, 2020 Share #21 Posted June 2, 2020 Minwax mtaylor and BobG 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share #22 Posted June 2, 2020 Any preference for water based or oil based? What are the differences, in terms of finish? mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 2, 2020 Share #23 Posted June 2, 2020 Minwax Satin Wipe-on-Poly is what I use also. mtaylor, Keith Black and Chuck Seiler 3 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 2, 2020 Share #24 Posted June 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, mpk73 said: Any preference for water based or oil based? What are the differences, in terms of finish? I have no clue about the water based product Polycrylic by Minwax as I've never used it though I do intend on buying a can and experimenting with the product. I've always used the oil based product Polyurethane by Minwax. mtaylor and BobG 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 2, 2020 Share #25 Posted June 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Keith Black said: I've always used the oil based product Polyurethane by Minwax. Same with me. I find that the oil based, Satin WOP is easy to use, has low sheen and can be recoated, if you want, in 2 hours. I don't like using it indoors because of the vapors it emits. It's not terrible but it is significant. I either work with it outdoors, in the garage or, if I do apply it indoors during bad weather, I'll take it out and place it in a protected place like the front porch for several hours so it can off-gas before I bring the ship back indoors. I'm probably more sensitive to the fumes of oil based products than most though. Keith Black 1 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaddoc Posted June 2, 2020 Share #26 Posted June 2, 2020 Could I ask, why not just leave the deck without any finish on? mtaylor 1 Quote Current projects: 21' Fisherman's Launch - plans by Howard Chapelle Hercules Steam Tugboat - scratch build from half model lines Completed projects: 21' Yawl Longboat - plans from the National Maritime Museum Deben 5 tonner - a Whisstock yard design 24' exploration gaff rigged ketch - a Tad Roberts design 15' knockabout sailing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 2, 2020 Share #27 Posted June 2, 2020 57 minutes ago, BobG said: I don't like using it indoors because of the vapors it emits If it wasn't for the vapors I wouldn't use the stuff. mtaylor and HardeeHarHar 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 2, 2020 Share #28 Posted June 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Keith Black said: If it wasn't for the vapors I wouldn't use the stuff. 🤣 mtaylor and HardeeHarHar 2 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk73 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share #29 Posted June 2, 2020 @vaddoc - I'd like to protect the deck and deck fittings. I do not plan on building a case for this, so it will be exposed. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted June 2, 2020 Share #30 Posted June 2, 2020 The only thing that will get on your displayed model is dust. Poly provides some scratch protection but it is primarily used to enhance the finish of the wood and makes the surface silky smooth so that you can either lightly wipe or blow the dust off your model. The deck fitting really don't need any protection. Dust is the biggest problem for models that are displayed without a case. Keith Black 1 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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