Poly after gluing to deck...

[mpk73]

First build here - Virginia 1819. It's been pretty fun and insightful, with a couple of mishaps that I've dealt with along the way, but for the most part I'm fairly happy with where I'm at. However... I've glued everything to the deck before applying poly. I just read the last page of the instructions, which recommends against it, and I've searched the forums here and found others who recommend against doing what I've done, but I was unable to find any results for what to do if you have made this mistake.

 

I'm not looking to make anything museum quality by any means, but after all of this work, I'd prefer not to have something that looks bad. Am I risking ruining it by doing a satin poly at this stage? Do I have to remove everything from the deck, or could I get away with it as it is? None of the brass fittings have been glued and can be readily removed (including the chainplates and the rudder), and the carronade has not been glued, either.

 

Apologies if this covered in the forums elsewhere. I searched and was unable to find a suitable topic.

[Keith Black]

 I believe in using Poly to protect the wood. It doesn't seem to matter what type of Polyurethane you use, satin, semigloss, or gloss, all three seem to have the same sheen. It's not a natural look for a ship model. You can see what I mean by going to my build log. Minwax makes a water based product called Polycrylic that comes in a ultra flat sheen. I have yet to try this product but at some point I am going to buy a can and do a test application of the Polycrylic ultra flat over the Polyurethane. If there are no ill affects I will go over everything with the Polycrylic to a more natural look. 

 

 I would suggest removing as many as of the deck elements as possible before applying a Poly coat, I think it makes for a more uniform application. 

[mpk73]

Well, I'm a bit worried about removing any of the pieces without doing significant damage to the decking. I was not sparse with glue...

 

What do I risk by spraying with the companion, barrels, etc. still on the deck?

[Keith Black]

I'm sorry, I thought the deck elements were still removable, leave the deck elements as is. Try the Poly on a test piece of wood first before commenting yourself. If I were you, I'd try the ultra flat Polycrylic first and follow the directions. I wouldn't spray as I have no experience spraying Ploy. I'd wipe or brush, brushing would allow you to get in and around the deck elements and be more selective in what gets a coat of Poly. If you do use the Polycrylic, please provide pictures. 

[barkeater]

If you are worried about sheen try Testors Dullcote on a piece of scrap wood. I find it does not give an appreciable sheen and can be used to dull down a sheen from a poly undercoat.

[BobG]

First of all, your model looks great especially considering that it's your first wooden ship and I don't thing you need to change anything. I have used Satin Wipe-on-Poly my models. It is very low sheen and brings out the natural color of the wood. I personally think it looks great. Many modelers use Satin WOP and are very happy with it. 

 

One of the moderator's here, Chuck Passaro, who also is model ship designer and the owner of the Syren Ship Model Company, uses Satin WOP on his models and they are museum quality. You'll find a lot of differing opinions about finishes here and you'll need to eventually try different ones and decide what you prefer but, for now, I think you are doing a great job. Congratulations.

[vaddoc]

Lovely model indeed, you ve done a great job. 

Make sure before you put anything on that you wont get a patchy appearance if the coating does not get uniformly everywhere, your deck is pretty busy. Maybe just leave the wood as is?

 

[mpk73]

Hi everyone. Thanks for the kind words - I've tried my best, and whatever turns out I'm sure I'll be happy with.

 

I'm not so worried about sheen - anything satin will do. 

 

I was able to remove a few things from the deck without appreciable damage. Most of the brass fittings were not glued and came easily, as well as the chainplates and rudder. Unfortunately, the companion, barrels, cargo hatch, carronade ring are all stuck (see attached image for current state).

 

Per vaddoc's comment, is the only thing I'm risking a patchy look due to poor coverage?

 

 

[BobG]

4 minutes ago, mpk73 said:

'm not so worried about sheen - anything satin will do. 

I don't understand why you have decided to remove everything you can from the deck when it seems like you are ok with the sheen of the satin WOP? Your boat looks wonderful as it is.

[Keith Black]

Great looking model by the way, nice work. You shouldn't have a patchy look issue as long as you follow the directions on the can. Don't keep working the Poly, put it on quickly and let it dry thoroughly before touching it. Using a piece of lent free cloth as an applicator is a pretty foolproof method of application. Mess around with some scrap pieces of wood first to get a feel for the product and applying. 

[mpk73]

BobG - this is pre-finish. I want to add some sort of protective coat, but I am afraid to at this point since I did not follow the instructions to add the finish before gluing everything to the deck.

 

 

[BobG]

On 5/29/2020 at 5:49 PM, mpk73 said:

I'm not looking to make anything museum quality by any means, but after all of this work, I'd prefer not to have something that looks bad. Am I risking ruining it by doing a satin poly at this stage? Do I have to remove everything from the deck, or could I get away with it as it is? None of the brass fittings have been glued and can be readily removed (including the chainplates and the rudder), and the carronade has not been glued, either.

 

28 minutes ago, mpk73 said:

BobG - this is pre-finish. I want to add some sort of protective coat, but I am afraid to at this point since I did not follow the instructions to add the finish before gluing everything to the deck.

 

 

Sorry, mpk73, I don't think I'm understanding exactly what the problem is. The poly is protective and enhances the beauty of the wood as well. Wipe-on-Poly is very easy to use. I simply wipe in on with a clean cloth and I use a small paint brush to get it into areas that I can't wipe with the cloth. Just make sure you are not leaving pools of poly anywhere. Just wipe up anything that the wood doesn't absorb. I don't see why you would need to remove your deck structures to that.

 

Now, if you mean that you put the poly on but prefer a different finish, then, of course, you'd need to somehow remove the poly before applying a different finish.

 

[Jaager]

You could go old school and use half concentration shellac, followed by full strength.  For anything wood that is already bonded, shellac would be good for them too.  You can mask with Frog tape ( is it really made in France?) if it worries you.  Application - small brush, a small block cut from a low cost sponge paint brush -- Duco a couple of round tooth picks, or a piece of a bamboo skewer for a handle -  a square of cotton rag held in a curved Kelly clamp  -  for fine attention - a Q-tip? 

 

Since they are removed, you might consider a blackening Tx for the brass.  Search the forums for the topic,  The key to success with this seems to be fresh blackening agent and making sure that the whole surface of the brass is absolutely nothing but brass,  no skin oils or anything else.

[mpk73]

BobG, To be more clear: the instructions - and various others that I have seen online - have said to apply the finish before gluing anything onto the deck. (that is, not glue anything on until the finish is applied). The problem is that I glued everything down before applying finish. I have not applied any finish at all at this point, and I am wondering if I should remove everything from the deck and apply finish and then glue everything back on, or if I should go ahead and apply a spray finish with everything glued down.

 

Jaager - thanks for the suggestion on the brass. I was thinking about "weathering" it some way to remove the bright sheen, so this is very helpful. I would prefer to use some sort of spray finish (of which you can shellac...) as I am usually not successful with brush finishing in other woodworking projects. I have not been successful with shellac ever, though I guess a thinned concentration would allow for less stressful application.

 

Ultimately, I'd like to just apply a satin poly at this point - but I don't want uneven application on points like the companion (which will be hard to reach using a standard spray can).

[Keith Black]

mpk73, what type glue did you use? I really don't think it matters because I've looked closely at you work and I don't see and glue smears at the edges of those elements still adhered to the deck. Don't you have something you can do a test on first before making a decision? 

[mpk73]

Gorilla wood glue (not the expanding stuff...) - ran out of Titebond and couldn't easily access anything else. Also a bit of CA glue, but used sparingly. There are a couple of places where there was a bit of squeezeout that was hard to clean, but overall there is not a whole lot of visible glue.

 

Is this what I should be worried about, glue smear? If so, I can confidently say that there is little-to-none.

[BobG]

1 hour ago, mpk73 said:

BobG, To be more clear: the instructions - and various others that I have seen online - have said to apply the finish before gluing anything onto the deck. (that is, not glue anything on until the finish is applied). The problem is that I glued everything down before applying finish. I have not applied any finish at all at this point, and I am wondering if I should remove everything from the deck and apply finish and then glue everything back on, or if I should go ahead and apply a spray finish with everything glued down.

Ok, looking at your model I don't see any compelling reason why you would need to remove anything from your deck before applying the poly. If it was my boat I would just use Satin Wipe-on-Poly on everything that is accessible that you want it on. Your boat will be fine if there are areas under a deck structure where can't do that. Simply protect any surfaces by masking or careful application that you don't want to get any poly on. I don't put poly on any painted surfaces or metal surfaces. 

 

Poly will not penetrate glue smears so, if you have any, those spots would look different from the areas with poly on them, but it sounds like you did a nice job of being careful with your gluing. The best policy is to avoid glue smears in the first place by being careful and cleaning up excess glue immediately or, if it has already dried, carefully scrape and/or sand the glue spots before applying any finish.

 

I hope this helps. It's not too late for you to start a build log for your model. There are a lot of very experienced modelers on this site that will be more than happy answer your questions and share their knowledge with you.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

[Keith Black]

Basically what Bob said except "I don't put poly on any painted surfaces or metal surfaces." and I'm wondering why? Because of the sheen? I've had absolutely no issues applying Poly to either acrylic painted surface or metal surface.  

[BobG]

Keith, I've never really thought of using Wipe-on-Poly on painted surfaces or metal.

 

I thought it was a product to be used specifically on wood. I use acrylic paints and generally use a blackening agent on brass and do not topcoat them with anything. I'm not certain if poly would be compatible with acrylics or brass that been blackened either. So, for me, I just don't see a need to put WOP on anything except wood.

[mpk73]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

 

Is there any specific brand of WOP that you use? I'm going to go ahead and order both wipe on and spray, and will likely wipe on portions of the deck and do a spray coat over everything.

[Keith Black]

Minwax 

[mpk73]

Any preference for water based or oil based? What are the differences, in terms of finish?

[BobG]

Minwax Satin Wipe-on-Poly is what I use also.

[Keith Black]

47 minutes ago, mpk73 said:

Any preference for water based or oil based? What are the differences, in terms of finish?

I have no clue about the water based product Polycrylic by Minwax as I've never used it though I do intend on buying a can and experimenting with the product. I've always used the oil based product Polyurethane by Minwax. 

[BobG]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

I've always used the oil based product Polyurethane by Minwax. 

Same with me. I find that the oil based, Satin WOP is easy to use, has low sheen and can be recoated, if you want, in 2 hours. I don't like using it indoors because of the vapors it emits. It's not terrible but it is significant.  I either work with it outdoors, in the garage or, if I do apply it indoors during bad weather, I'll take it out and place it in a protected place like the front porch for several hours so it can off-gas before I bring the ship back indoors. I'm probably more sensitive to the fumes of oil based products than most though.

[vaddoc]

Could I ask, why not just leave the deck without any finish on?

[Keith Black]

57 minutes ago, BobG said:

I don't like using it indoors because of the vapors it emits

If it wasn't for the vapors I wouldn't use the stuff. 

[BobG]

6 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

If it wasn't for the vapors I wouldn't use the stuff. 

🤣

[mpk73]

@vaddoc - I'd like to protect the deck and deck fittings. I do not plan on building a case for this, so it will be exposed.

[BobG]

The only thing that will get on your displayed model is dust. Poly provides some scratch protection but it is primarily used to enhance the finish of the wood and makes the surface silky smooth so that you can either lightly wipe or blow the dust off your model. The deck fitting really don't need any protection. Dust is the biggest problem for models that are displayed without a case.