Cutty Sark by NenadM

[NenadM]

Something interesting, in mean time.

 

In Tivat, Montenegro, I had seen old school sailing ship JADRAN, which was the one of the most popular ship for modeling in former Yugoslavia

 

Impresive

 

And interesting history of this ship ( see Wiki)

 

Edit on november 20. 2013:  According to policy of Administrators, this post have to be removed. But, some of Moderators like that, so it will remain

Edited November 20, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

sorry you have to come back to the real world.......but I'm glad your back!   nice pictures

[NenadM]

Nothing interesting from three day travel, except many many many many many  crazy Turkish drivers on road driving very fast ( over 150km/h) and extreme dangerous ... what a ride .... very hard to stay alive on road ... idiots ... they drive full car of children more than 2000 km per day ...  only one tired and sleepy driver .... one day from Istambul to Berlin .....

 

After coming home (21:30) DEADLY TIRED, I visit her majesty in her dry dock, and make some photos

 

 

 

With my camera (on Htc Wildfire, 5 MP) without daylight I can not picture deepnes to show beautiful lines that slowly appear ( sanding is still far away to end)

 

Dilemma i mentioned above is about horizontal strips, but more about that - tomorrow when I find proper English words, and make some time to scan details from three additional different plans of Cutty I get in meantime, and connect with adequate Google pictures.

 

Horizontal strips on picture I put temporary to assume right attitude for woodfiller , and I ll see if they will stay or not

Edited March 20, 2014 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Your sanding and lines look great!  Now is the time when you sit and look  at the ship from every direction and say to yourself;  "hmmmmm.... this is really cool!

[NenadM]

Just luke that !

Right words.

 

Every time I went downstairs to Her I look at Her, gently touch her sides with all possible sense of my fingers, and said: "hmmmm..." and sand little more or fill some imaginary or real "holes" in planking, and then "hmmmm..." again.

 

That is the way it goes, I supose

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Bob,

In my country, it is said: "When you hiccup, someone is talking/thinking about you"

Do you hiccup tonight ?

While sanding, there was many "hmmm..." and "hmmmm..." looking from every side to Her Majesty, discovering places to correct something

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Holly Internet  !!!!!

 

 

Look at what I just have found on HNSA.ORG !!!

 

TEXT-BOOK
OF
SEAMANSHIP

THE EQUIPPING AND HANDLING OF
VESSELS
UNDER SAIL OR STEAM.

FOR THE USE OF THE
UNITED STATES NAVAL ACADEMY.

BY
COMMODORE S. B. LUCE, U. S. NAVY.

REVISED AND ENLARGED BY
LIEUTENANT AARON WARD, U. S. NAVY.

WITH ILLUSTRATIONS DRAWN BY
LIEUTENANT S. SEABURY, U. S. NAVY.

New York:
VAN NOSTRAND COMPANY,
23 MURRAY STREET & 27 WARREN STREET.
-
1891.

 

I start to read immediately in the evening and find it very useful for everybody on MSW to learn almost everything about sailing ships, their parts and construction, rigging, sails, ropes, knots, blocks, their uses and species and   etc

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

And here is dilemma ( or two)

 

First

 

In almost all pictures of  CS before fire, like one attached above, there can be seen fife horizontal lines ( I dont know exactly english word). In my plans there are only three. 

 

 

From up to down, first and second are rounded and thinner, third is nearly squared , and wider. They existed in CS today

 

But

 

Fourth line separates coopering from planking

 

WHAT IS FIFTH LINE, which I dont have in plans ? In plans there is no line 4

 

In restored CS now, lines 4 and 5 do not exist !?!?!?

 

There are also not shown in Campbell plans, and other plans I have 

 

What to do or not to do on model ???????

 

 

Second

 

Watch carefully next two pictures

 

 

It seems that on model must be some kind of "coopering" under the black colour ?

 

In my plans, that section is planked too ???

 

 

What do you think ?

 

Edit at 21:30

 

I try something, and it seems that something like this will be all right

 

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Hello, Nenad;

 

Not sure if I was hiccuping the night you mentioned;  I was brought up the same way only that an itchy nose was the sign someone was talking about you

 

As far as the ship's areas you mention, the first three lines are accurate.  I assume that the previous restorations added the fourth line to cover up unsightly copper erosion at the top, and who knows the purpose for the fifth line?  (Probably someone who thought it would make the ship more presentable?)  They wouldn't have been installed on the original ship.

 

There were no wooden planks above deck level;  the bulwarks of this ship were made of iron plates.  This is very deceiving on most kits' instructions (including mine) who would have you plank right up to the rail.  I made my simulated iron bulwarks out of 1/32" sheet basswood, and thought about duplicating rivets and plate lines, but decided against it.  I am attaching a pic of the cross-sectional area of the bulwarks, but I'm not sure if it's uploading correctly.

 

Hope this helps, and remember the "hmmmm-hmmm" is like the "mm-mmm" of eating a fine meal!

 

 

Crosssection.bmp

[NenadM]

Ok Bob, I see it, even it is inverted.

 

Today I start thinking again about starting CS from begining .......... but it would not happen ... 6 mounths of work is there  ....

 

Find myself in the middle ... cut off lines in intend to put them again latter after finish sanding

 

Edit : when finishing second layer of planking .... I ll see when

 

Edit sept.15 2013

 

Lines had unexpected  good role and function to clearly show "holes" and "hills". After cutting them down, all curvatures of body are much smother, and that was very god decision

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[zeptraderUK]

Hi, just wondered if you would like some picture I took of the wonderful cutty sark just last week?

 

I have quite a few, some really good.

 

 

[rfolsom]

I too share the same dilemma;  I pre-painted my lines and installed them after painting the hull underneath, in order to avoid a lot of tedious masking.

I'm not sure that was a wise idea, because they are coming loose in places, requiring me to use ca glue, which discolors the paint, which leads to sanding and repainting....  (on and on...)  I have had many run-ins with fate or bad luck, (or drunken nights )with this ship, but I repair my many mistakes as best I can and keep plugging along.  I agree that the time invested is not worth restarting the build.  I try to view the mistakes I make as inevitable "battle scars" and will be proud of the ship, no matter what the "critics" may think!

[popeye the sailor]

on plasrtic kits.......those two bottom lines are not there.   they don't even show that the hull was indeed plated all the way up to the bulwarks............painted black,  no one would be the wiser.   I wouldn't put either one in for this very reason.   scale would be another reason to consider........how small would those rails be?

 

builds are started with the best of ideas and intentions.   when left for periods of time,  some of the luster can become dulled or lost.  it makes getting back in the grove that much harder.  build your ships gentlemen.....with all that you can muster.   when they are finished,  you'll be all the more proud of what you've done..........all because you stuck with it. 

[mtaylor]

Popeye,

You are a wise man.   I'm going to print that and put on my workbench.

[Jim Lad]

If you search the internet for old photographs of the Cutty Sark when she was still in service, you'll see that those two lower lines certainly didn't exist originally.

 

Take a deep breath and start work again - you'll soon be back in the swing of things!

 

John

[NenadM]

Start again ?

Start again ?

Start again ?

Start again ?

 

I am not really sure ...

 

but ...

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[UdoK]

Hi Nenad,

think twice about your decision to start again. Dumping a model means to dump all the efforts and hours spend on it, I do know from experience that mostly always something can be done to prevent the final step.

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

I'm in agreement with Edward. Only if there's no other way to fix something should it be dumped.  But this is wood and wood can be fixed.  In this case, maybe a strip of wood glued over the planking? Or a bit of cutting and fitting?  I hope you can get to the fortress.  There's a lot of history in those walls.

[capnharv2]

Hi Nenad,

 

I'm with Edward and Mark-think very carefully before you throw away 6 months work. In my opinion, taking these strips off and putting them on is not a big enough deal to start over.

 

That is one of the beauties of wood ship models-they are very reworkable (and often are).

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[NenadM]

Thinking ... thinking ... thinking ...

 

and decide to believe in something which seems to be true

 

simple words

 

mistakes can be corrected , or covered, or masked .... and when next model comes,, there will not  be mistakes ( ha ha ha)

 

nothing about fortress of Smederevo today. Maybe on Monday ...

 

Edit on October 04. 2013 : In beginig of September, I "accidentally" find on Internet Campbell 3 sheets !!!!! This changes everything   

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Little progress today

 

I decided to cut off strips, which was good decision, and after extra puttying and sanding, lines of ship look better

 

 

But, better lines opened earlier mistake in its full size - bad angle and position of front deck

 

 

Obviously, it is necessary to take a sharp cut, and to remove front deck, and to remake it again

 

 

Little check of angle ...

 

 

It seem to be OK, but must wait putty to harden, and to "finish sanding" other side first 

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[Lou van Wijhe]

Nenad,

 

The lines on Cutty Sark's hull can be explained as follows (see drawing, which -by the way- is not exactly to scale):

 

 

The 1st line from above is the outside of the top gallant rail (varnished brown)

The 2nd line is the outside of the main rail (also varnished brown)

The 3rd line is the sheer plank moulding (painted white)

 

The battens on the former Muntz Metal sheathing may have been there to reinforce the sheathing. Anyway, they were not replaced during the reconstruction.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Lou

 

 

[NenadM]

Thx Lou, your advices are really helpfull

Edited October 10, 2013 by Nenad M

[Lou van Wijhe]

P.S.
In my sketch the bulwark stanchions look as if going through the deck. This was based on a drawing in a document by The Cutty Sark Trust (Conservation Plan Volume 1: History of Fabric). Later on the ship's curator informed me that this drawing detail is confusing and that the opportunity for water ingress would be too great if the connection passed through the deck. The bulward stanchions are in effect attached on a small iron plate to the angle iron between the iron gutter way and the margin plank, like here:

 

Cutty Sark Maindeckwaterway.pdf

 

Lou

[NenadM]

Completion of repairs of front deck immediately leads to another "problem" that has significant implications for the way in the formation of the upper bulwarks

 

The research and problem solving is the beauty of this hobby, right?

 

As my plans, as usually,  do not provide an answer to a specific interior look of bulwarks, pursuing further research

 

Confusion bring some CS models whose images can be found on the Internet, especially in terms of interior design fore and aft bulwarks with decorations along whole upper bulwarks

 

 

Judging by the pictures, there are models that entirely ignore these decorations

 

 

 

And models with decorations only on middle section

 

 

 

On the other hand, photos of CS lead to conclusion  that only the central part of the upper bulwarks has white decorations (if the decorations)

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

your making me wish i had a Cutty build in front of me,  you know.   it caused me to get out my Cutty build and show how Revell molded these details.   it has been in  'the hallway'  for well over a year,  waiting for me to finish her.   when I did this build,  there was so much conjecture as to her color,  I just went and painted her my way.  I am amazed with how little dust is on her......just a few ceilling putty droppings...the folks who live upstairs stomp around like animals....lucky the whloe ceilling hasn't come down!

 

 

the two rub rails along the bulwark is there.......and then the cap rails

 

 

the inner bulwark detail can be done as close as you like,  but some of the details do get lost with scale, some too small to actually do.  just getting the basic layout,  can be quite rewarding.

 

 

Revell had a hard time with the fore castle deck and windlass assembly.  they specified using multiple pieces of chain to do the windlass.  with just a couple of holes drilled into the deck.....two covered by the chain gates and the other two covered by the decking,  I cut it down to just two pieces of chain.   you had mentioned the stern and the shape of it.  Revell did a nice job of this and the way the rub rails wrap around it.  the cap rails finishes it off.

 

 

the last Cutty I did,  I included all of the sails.......I intend to do the same to this one.  the studding sails and braces still need to be done,  as well as the repairs to the rigging from the move here.  one of these days,  I'll get her back on the table

[NenadM]

Popeye

this beauty must be finished !!!

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[Lou van Wijhe]

Completion of repairs of front deck immediately leads to another "problem" that has significant implications for the way in the formation of the upper bulwarks

 

The research and problem solving is the beauty of this hobby, right?

 

As my plans, as usually,  do not provide an answer to a specific interior look of bulwarks, pursuing further research

 

Confusion bring some CS models whose images can be found on the Internet, especially in terms of interior design fore and aft bulwarks with decorations along whole upper bulwarks

 

Nenad,

 

Some time ago I uploaded a number of Cutty Sark photos, taken in the nineteen eighties, to Skydrive. They contain numerous shots of the bulwarks. You can find them here.

 

Lou

[NenadM]

Lou

 

you are a genius !!!

Edited October 4, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

Lou has some good stuff there..........have you done any more to the one you started a while ago Lou?