Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

If you further look at post #1760, you will also see vent louvers on the back of the small structure.  The structure was a heat trap and then a ventilator,  Like any cupula on old barns and farm structures.  The louvers would allow fresh air in, rising hot air out and prevent rain from entering.  Was everything watertight....no.  but is a ship ever water tight!

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

7 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

For modeling purposes, I estimate this structure to be 6' wide by either 6' or 8' long. The front would be 3-4' elevated in the center with 2 1-1 & 1/2' outside areas. The rear looks to be 1' high, so the front may be 1 & 1/2 high on the outside and 2' high in the center. Rough estimates based on visual observations. I'll sketch an idea of what we're discussing.

Thanks......and we will discuss....looks like we are on the same track.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir, I don't know about you guys but I always get so jazzed when Mike sends me more rare detailed pics of "GLORY of the SEAS!"

As we've been discussing her Rear Carriage House a few of these images will be familiar but some again are ones I've never seen before. The fascia of the Carriage House is lighter so that the pedestals at the top and arches are clearly visible now. The beautiful painting is one I've never seen before.

Mike has also offered to send me any image from either of his 2 books should I want. I'm going to look closely to see if there are ones that will help us in our modeling endeavors.

[rwiederrich]

Mike hit the gold mine with those open deck images of Glory during her canary refit.  
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

amazing pics Rich. 

[ClipperFan]

12 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Mike hit the gold mine with those open deck images of Glory during her canary refit.  
 

Rob

Rob, Mike continues to amaze me with his treasure trove of rare images. This unfortunately also reveals how little respect the new owners had for a historic vessel. If they had only invested in proper Muntz metal refreshment, she would still be with us today.

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

amazing pics Rich. 

Vladimir, Mike continues to amaze me with rare, never before seen images of Glory. I have one additional front fascia sketch by Mike that I need to convert from Adobe pdf which can't be shared to jpg files which can. Meanwhile Mike has now generously offered to share any pic from his 2 books that we request. Let me know if you have any particular preferences. Please specify either book #1 or #2 and what facing page it's on. That's precisely how I managed to get one of the most consequential images we've seen so far. The one of Glory at the Seattle dockside in 1911 was in Michael's first book but not the full image he shared. Very often publishers edit photos in order to fit specific locations. In my spare time, I'm going to compile my own list.

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir,

Here's Mike's Rear House front fascia sketch in a slightly larger scale. One significant difference between my observations and Mike's is where he saw pillars in '78 I currently see mainly insets. Another interesting observation is that in Mike's completed sketch there are 9 distinct pillars, evenly distributed which is very elegant.

Edited September 14, 2021 by ClipperFan
missing image

[ClipperFan]

The way I explain how my observation differs from Mike's is a trained artist's eye. Shadows define shapes. Light shows raised areas whereas shadows reveal recessed ones. Using that knowledge you can clearly see that where Mike has called out pillars are actually surrounded by recessed areas on both sides. Another interesting feature, again revealed by shadow observation is that the structures surrounding the windows are actually rounded and not rectangular like modern window sashes are. The way you can tell is that shadows on round objects are softer, more diffuse while those on flat surfaces are sharper, more crisply edged. That's how I was able to sketch in greater detail than Mike for the surfaces that I could observe. When I get a chance, I will revise my sketch to correct it according to Mike's excellent example.

[rwiederrich]

Did a bit of work on the poop cabin and helm cabin.  
 

Rob

Edited September 14, 2021 by rwiederrich

[BANYAN]

Very nice work Rob, that looks great.  You're making some good progress with her now.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Did a bit of work on the poop cabin and helm cabin.  
 

Rob

Rob, I'm running out of ways to say superlative work. I'm going to have to refer to a Thesaurus! Absolutely beautiful work.

[rwiederrich]

9 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Very nice work Rob, that looks great.  You're making some good progress with her now.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks Pat.  Currently I can only put in about an hour a night on her.  That is driving my nutts.

 

I generally spend a bout 3 hours per session, to get the most done.  This tedious small repetitious work takes the longest and I can only afford the minutest time for it.  GRRRRRRRRR.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I'm running out of ways to say superlative work. I'm going to have to refer to a Thesaurus! Absolutely beautiful work.

😄 thanks Rich.  I have the window of the main cabin to complete and the doors and paneling for the helm.  Painting of course.

 

These are all small pittance compared to the work I have in store for me on the carriage house front.  I kept that small project for last...so I can focus on the details that will be specifically required for that project.  Not to mention the scroll work for each overhang bracket.

 

As I move forward up the deck the aft hatch, capstan and boy house(And all its trappings) will occupy many hours of fun fabrication.

 

Rob(Forced to work slower then I'd like)😪

[rwiederrich]

Rich,   As I investigate further, it appears the structure atop the helm is indeed a vent cupula.

 

As I've shown in photos the aft end tapers and the aft wall is louvered.

The image here shows clearly that there is built into the front  a window, or louvered hatch that opens.

Opened during mild hot weather for good breezy ventilation and to be closed when bad weather is afoot.  Being louvered you still get ample air movement, without water entry.

 

A curtain is present in the forward window, surely demonstrating that the forward portion of the addition is considered an access way to the lower salon regularly traveled by passengers...hence the second door forward on the cabin, separating the working helm from the trimmed and dressed passageway.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

46 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich,   As I investigate further, it appears the structure atop the helm is indeed a vent cupula.

 

As I've shown in photos the aft end tapers and the aft wall is louvered.

The image here shows clearly that there is built into the front  a window, or louvered hatch that opens.

Opened during mild hot weather for good breezy ventilation and to be closed when bad weather is afoot.  Being louvered you still get ample air movement, without water entry.

 

A curtain is present in the forward window, surely demonstrating that the forward portion of the addition is considered an access way to the lower salon regularly traveled by passengers...hence the second door forward on the cabin, separating the working helm from the trimmed and dressed passageway.

 

Rob

 

Rob, in an email I just received, which has some beautiful pictures attached (one's my favorite Walter's oil, the other I edited from a pdf which shows important skylight details, more to follow) Mike confirmed that the skylights on the Rear House layout in "Clipper Ship Captain" pg 175 are indeed 6' × 4' (which means as printed the scale is 1/4" = 2'). He also mentioned that he has a layout in the works for the Afterhouse Cabin which will include two Vestibules, one adjacent to the Chief Mate's Cabin and the other to the Second Mate's Cabin both which exited onto the Dining Salon and also onto the After Deck. That's got to be the two new doors to the Helm House extension to have access to the after deck. I've always been curious too about how they treated the position of the ship's wheel once the extension was added. Or since the helmsman was always basing their position on the ship's compass in the binnacle just in front of them, did this even matter?

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, in an email I just received, which has some beautiful pictures attached (one's my favorite Walter's oil, the other I edited from a pdf which shows important skylight details, more to follow) Mike confirmed that the skylights on the Rear House layout in "Clipper Ship Captain" pg 175 are indeed 6' × 4' (which means as printed the scale is 1/4" = 2'). He also mentioned that he has a layout in the works for the Afterhouse Cabin which will include two Vestibules, one adjacent to the Chief Mate's Cabin and the other to the Second Mate's Cabin both which exited onto the Dining Salon and also onto the After Deck. That's got to be the two new doors to the Helm House extension to have access to the after deck. I've always been curious too about how they treated the position of the ship's wheel once the extension was added. Or since the helmsman was always basing their position on the ship's compass in the binnacle just in front of them, did this even matter?

Mike emailed me these yesterday. This is the best picture of the aft skylights I have seen and if you review other images, you will se a structure between the aft skylight and the wheelhouse extension.

 

Rob

Edited September 15, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Mike emailed me these yesterday. This is the best picture of the aft skylights I have seen and if you review other images, you will se a structure between the aft skylight and the wheelhouse extension.

 

Rob

Rob, if it's not the other aft skylight, do you think it might be part of the original gangway entrance to the rear of the Rear House?

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, if it's not the other aft skylight, do you think it might be part of the original gangway entrance to the rear of the Rear House?

No...I don't think it is any part of the old entry into the aft parlor.  The new construction is clean and architecturally rectangular.  To leave a portion of the old makes no sense.  It is either an extension of the aft skylight or a makeshift structure added by the canary mod crew.  Maybe Mike might have more *Hidden* images of this area.  If I can't figure it out or justify it...I'm leaving it off.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Upon further analysis....I think I am seeing a ghost, or a phantom image.  this image from Mike surely shows that a man is freely standing/sitting behind the aft skylight.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, I agree with your observation about the two skylights. From the one clear image we got, it's remarkable how the same structural treatment has been repeated in smaller scale for these two devices. The pedestal mount, most likely blue, as well as some darker trim around the louvered base. The pedestal theme is continued under the roof as well. There's an indent, probably a foot for seating. The natural wood louvered areas appear to be 1' wide each, 3 next to each other with a small verticle divide followed by 3 more which would total 6' in all. Following that pattern the fore and aft sides would be 4 similar sections. My estimate is the lower section would be open for ventilation while the top would be glass enclosed. The metal bars would possibly be brass. From what I've read these sections could also be raised and propped open for additional ventilation in acceptable weather.

Meanwhile, as mentioned earlier today, here's more pics Mike shared with me. He had an opportunity to take sectional close ups of the Walter's oil. Pity it wasn't in color. What I immediately noticed is that it appears, as I originally suspected, all 3 outer arch bands for both her Naval Hoods and carved Cutwaters were indeed gilded. Apparently the turned stanchions for both Poop deck and Rear House were natural wood while the rails themselves were white. You can also see that one of the figures on the Rear House deck is obviously a woman in a dress, most likely the Captain's wife standing besides him. It's an interesting personal touch. 

Finally the Antonio Jacobson painting was shared with me by Mike a few months ago. He wrote that the Stern embellishment would be typical for Clippers of that era. "GLORY of the SEAS" would have had similar such decorations. I will use this as my guide to complete her Stern.

[rwiederrich]

Spent a little time working the house 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Few more pics as I get to the main cabin windows 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Added some windows 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

All painted.  Now to make the vent cupola.  
 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

The front of the cabin will be last to do 

 

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, 

After over a dozen years struggling to correctly envision Donald McKay's magnificent last Clipper Ship, it's so exciting to finally see her being recreated so meticulously by not one but two highly motivated and talented individuals. I am so thrilled to observe your progress!

[rwiederrich]

I added the vent cupola.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

11 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, 

After over a dozen years struggling to correctly envision Donald McKay's magnificent last Clipper Ship, it's so exciting to finally see her being recreated so meticulously by not one but two highly motivated and talented individuals. I am so thrilled to observe your progress!

Thanks Rich.   I appreciate the confidence.  
Im doing the best I can and sadly I make lots of mistakes in scale and recreation.  
 But I’m betting Vlad and I are still closer to the original then any other historical model.     Thanks to fine research by yourself and of course Mike. 
 

Rob

Edited September 17, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

34 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I added the vent cupola.

 

Rob

Rob,

You're probably not going to like hearing this but here goes. Based upon very careful observations of the relationship between your Helm House and Vent Cupola, the profile of your Cupola is about twice as high as it should be to be scaled properly. I've included a couple close edits so you can see what I'm talking about.

The top image is from the roof of the large cabin astern the Mainmast looking towards the Stern. Observe the somewhat diminutive height of the central section of the Cupola. At most, the highest it gets is about 1/2 the height of the front window of the Helm House. On the contrary, your Cupola appears to have a central window equal to the height of the front window. It's not as critical but the height difference between front and rear is more subdued on the real craft as well. It's so subtle that we had to look very closely even to identify it. If I were to estimate, my closest guess would be possibly 8" in the rear, 10" in the front with 1' center. It looks like the moderately raised center is 4' wide with two 1' wide ends. You might want to mock up a cardboard substitute and compare it to the photos. Keeping these fascinating details to scale is annoying but results will be so rewarding.