Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

39 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

That would be Darby O'Gill's method.....however, as much as I would prefer to do it that way....I've chosen the more difficult, though less imaginative way.

 

And that my friend is a trade secret.  Like McKay, I will keep my shady technique to myself....though I will tell you that it includes the use of wire, bending of  that wire, glue and paint.  Not to mention the preformed deadeyes.  I will, however, entertain any observations you may postulate.

A *cheesy hack* never divulges his trickery.   I'm sure skilled artisans such as Banyan and EdT would never consider the LOW road when calculating their next move in building their magnificent models.   Where, as for me, that is a well traveled road.

 

The best part is, it all turns out well.  The prince wins the hand of the fair young maiden and no one is the wiser.

 

Rob(there is a reason someone invented smoke and mirrors)

Rob, as usual you over exaggerate your smoke and mirrors and under report your actual artisan craftsmanship. Your results demonstrate for themselves the high level of proficiency you've acquired.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, as usual you over exaggerate your smoke and mirrors and under report your actual artisan craftsmanship. Your results demonstrate for themselves the high level of proficiency you've acquired.

I suppose I've worked with *Purist* modelers....modelers who are faithful to reproduce with wood and metal and are faithful to the actual practices of real ship building.   I guess I'm overly critical of myself because of so many years of critiques by modeling masters.   I skip past the formal approach and use less then acceptable techniques so as far as that particular crowd expects.

 

Or maybe I'm so unorthodox in my approach and so ingenious in my applications that the *purist* is unable to comprehend....my, *There is always another way* attitude.

 

Any way.....enough self loathing.

 

These channels and chainplates will be correct aesthetically.

 

Thanks for tolerating my attitude.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

I suppose I've worked with *Purist* modelers....modelers who are faithful to reproduce with wood and metal and are faithful to the actual practices of real ship building.   I guess I'm overly critical of myself because of so many years of critiques by modeling masters.   I skip past the formal approach and use less then acceptable techniques so as far as that particular crowd expects.

 

Or maybe I'm so unorthodox in my approach and so ingenious in my applications that the *purist* is unable to comprehend....my, *There is always another way* attitude.

 

Any way.....enough self loathing.

 

These channels and chainplates will be correct aesthetically.

 

Thanks for tolerating my attitude.

 

Rob

Rob, sometimes, not always but sometimes purists can be insensitive and elitist. I am not accusing any particular individual but making a point about human nature. You may also be even minimizing your own growth over the years. I also seriously doubt any of those other craftsmen, besides possibly EdT would have the humility and patience to single mindedly pursue the meticulous recreation of a Clipper Ship purely from scratch either.

[BANYAN]

For my tuppence worth, my mantra on this subject is that "there is always more than one way to skin a cat" (sorry cats).  All I aim for is that the finished item looks right, and I make use of many 'false' finishes to achieve it

 

Each to their own, and rather than take offence I simply ignore the 'rivet counters'.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Spent a bit of time working on the fore port chain plates 1/2 done

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, BANYAN said:

For my tuppence worth, my mantra on this subject is that "there is always more than one way to skin a cat" (sorry cats).  All I aim for is that the finished item looks right, and I make use of many 'false' finishes to achieve it

 

Each to their own, and rather than take offence I simply ignore the 'rivet counters'.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pat, well said. As for Rob's exciting results, I believe they speak eloquently for themselves.

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Spent a bit of time working on the fore port chain plates 1/2 done

Rob, nice, cleanly installed work, as per your usually high standards.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Spent a bit of time working on the fore port chain plates 1/2 done

Amazing. now i can see how those are being made. watching all masting will be godsend to me. so excited. by the way your chalnnels grooves are cleaner than mine ! oh i have to make mooring holes. 

[rwiederrich]

8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, nice, cleanly installed work, as per your usually high standards.

Thanks Rich.  Mistakes abound(sic)...but as a whole, the channels and plates are coming along nicely.

 

The real trick is establishing the correct cant of the plates to the correct angle that will align them with the backstay points on the invisible masts.

 

I temporarily install a mast to scale and then project down....using a string to the channels and then mark out the location of the chain plates bisection to both upper and lower channels.   It is crude....but when one compares to the actual ship from photographs...it can easily be determined that even they are not *Perfectly* aligned with the backstays.

I feel good.

 

Once they are located, I use a very long drill and drill down through both of them at the correct angle and depth from the hull.

 

Last night I finished up making all the preventer plates for all the chain plates for both sides.  I wanted to get them done as a small project, because they are tedious work to do.

 

For the pic I took, I simply made 6 to work out the scale and construction process.  Now that, that was figured out, I mass produced them.

 

Tonight (Hopefully), I will finish up the fore mast and if all goes well, finish up the main.  This is time consuming small delicate work.  Each deadeye needs to be stropped to the plate and installed to the channel.  Once each channel/chain plate is finished I will paint and weather them....leaving the deadeye unpainted until the shrouds are installed(Much easier without paint on them and in the tiny holes), then the lanyards and the deadeyes will then get painted.

 

Rob

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Ahoy mates!  Anyone wanting to see more details of one method Rob has previously used for lower deadeye mounting and chainplate installation should see his fabulous build log of the Great Republic ... Sure it may seem a long log (as is the current one), but it is chock full of many nitty-grittys very helpful to those who aspire to approach the beauty and detail of his models - without having to resort to so-called 'purist' methods that require virtually re-building every darn thing from the ribs up.

 

  Rob's ingenious method for producing the best (and most practical) simulation of a copper bottom is thoroughly detailed in the Great Republic log - including how the method evolved ... and that has put a hand-cranked clothes wringer on my shopping list next time I visit this-and-that shops in the Lancaster PA area.  Many orders (ordnung) of Mennonite and Amish still use such implements, so I imagine they may be available in new or near new condition where the rollers are not 'dried-out' or cracked with age the way some antique wringers are.   Hmmm, may one can Google such an item.

 

  Now (please don't hate me) in the two photos (above) of the newly mounted deadeyes with chainplate, I think one can see the 'ghost' of a small area on the hull above the coppering that was corrected with a little filler after the final planking.  When the light is just right viewed at an angle, there is a slight difference in albedo (surface reflectivity) and texture of the area smoothed by underlying filler.  Most likely this will not be noticeable under normal viewing conditions and distance (the photo is substantially enlarged - like looking at one's complexion in a 'magnifying' bathroom auxiliary mirror).  One can safely apply any amount of filler over 'first planking' to get the desired lines, as that gets planked-over.  And second planking that will be covered by coppering can also be filled with abandon if needed.  Maybe the answer for final touch-ups on a surface to be painted and a low spot is found (which can create a 'shadow' after painting) is to leave just a little texture after filling - perhaps with 600 grit paper?  Just a guess, but I'll have to think about it before doing anything where wood gets painted.

 

  OK, I'll go and stone the deck now - and swab it for good measure.    Johnny.

 

  

  

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Thought of a way to work out unevenness of 2nd planking ... a mini scraper !  I've done furniture with the normal shapes available in cabinet scrapers, but a model ship would need something smaller and more flexible.  So a piece cut from a hacksaw blade (with a Dremel cutoff disc) would do.  Then after grinding off the kerf and teeth points to spare fingertips, the back edge of the blade section could be held in a vise have a small burr rolled just like a full-sized scraper .  There are You-tube videos (among other sources) to show how it's done on a regular scraper.  Then one can flex the mini scraper around most of the ship lines (concave and convex) and pare away uneven plank joins or high spots without leaving abrasive marks like sandpaper.  Working with the grain, small shavings come off nicely with a scraper.  Special purpose shapes can be ground into a scraper for beading and moldings - like is done for flintlock long rifles (been there, done that).  A former manager of mine advised not to point out a problem unless one has at least one good idea of a fix to offer at the same time.  I should have remembered his advice sooner.

 

  Fair sailing,  Johnny

[rwiederrich]

Thanks Johnny for the fine compliments and encouragement and Advertisement. I appreciate it very much it’s so fun they have people comment and look back at what I’ve done and to be a good encouragement and I’m really blessed thank you very much.

[rwiederrich]

Spent a little time working the fore, main and mizzenmast channels and chain plates. 
 

Rob

[TBlack]

Well, I'm checking out the tip from Johnny (Great Republic) that indicates how you do the marvelous things you do. In the meantime, I'm also intrigued with

the two wooden boxes under the red bucket on the shelf. What's in there?

Tom 

[rwiederrich]

17 minutes ago, TBlack said:

Well, I'm checking out the tip from Johnny (Great Republic) that indicates how you do the marvelous things you do. In the meantime, I'm also intrigued with

the two wooden boxes under the red bucket on the shelf. What's in there?

Tom 

Thanks a lot  Tblack.  Those are boxes that hold sheets of model transfers and decals

[BANYAN]

They look good (no excellent) Rob, I should never have doubted

 

cheers

 

Pat

[ClipperFan]

Rob, your channels and chain work look top notch. I think, as I'm quite sure a lot of your fellow modeling craftsmen and women will attest, you're far more advanced than you give yourself credit for. 

Meanwhile, when it comes to stepping your masts, I'll give you my exact calculations taken from a compilation of the specs of Glory's "backbone" laid out by Duncan MacLean. This too may be somewhat controversial as it's about 11' much higher than Mike portrayed in his crossection. But it's right in line with McKay's other large Clipper "Sovereign of the Seas" which has that depth clearly spelled out.

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, BANYAN said:

They look good (no excellent) Rob, I should never have doubted

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks Pat.  I don't think you doubted, I think you hadn't opened your mind to other possible ways to do the task, but what you have had experience with.

Nothin better then that *ahahah* moment.  Your own mantra spells it out quite nicely.  *There are many ways to skin a cat*.

 

And I believe that too.  Well, it's my mantra too.

 

The details in the weathering as well...she's almost 10 years old by now.  She needs to look it and not only does her structures need to look convincing..so does her weathering.

 

Thanks for the fine comments and encouragements...you have been a great support from the beginning.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, your channels and chain work look top notch. I think, as I'm quite sure a lot of your fellow modeling craftsmen and women will attest, you're far more advanced than you give yourself credit for. 

Meanwhile, when it comes to stepping your masts, I'll give you my exact calculations taken from a compilation of the specs of Glory's "backbone" laid out by Duncan MacLean. This too may be somewhat controversial as it's about 11' much higher than Mike portrayed in his crossection. But it's right in line with McKay's other large Clipper "Sovereign of the Seas" which has that depth clearly spelled out.

Thanks Rich.  I beat myself up a bit...don't I?

 

Any way, I'm glad you brought up the mast stepping issue, I'm not quite sure what the deck angle was for each mast.  1 or 2 degrees?

 

Again...thanks.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

13 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Spent a little time working the fore, main and mizzenmast channels and chain plates. 
 

Rob

im slow to catch on your speed Rob. shes perfect. by the way, what color is top of fancyrail, very upper side? its white and black is touching it from outer side? seems quite tricky to me. thanks V. 

[rwiederrich]

5 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

im slow to catch on your speed Rob. shes perfect. by the way, what color is top of fancyrail, very upper side? its white and black is touching it from outer side? seems quite tricky to me. thanks V. 

Yep....white on top and inside and black on the outside.

 

Thanks for your fine comments....I'm just plugging along.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.  I beat myself up a bit...don't I?

 

Any way, I'm glad you brought up the mast stepping issue, I'm not quite sure what the deck angle was for each mast.  1 or 2 degrees?

 

Again...thanks.

 

Rob

Rob, there's nothing specified in any publication I can find about the angle of inclination for any of the masts. From photographic evidence, it's clear they're not verticle. I think I deferred to Mike's specs on that. There's plans which include that in his second book. I'll see if I can read and share them.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, there's nothing specified in any publication I can find about the angle of inclination for any of the masts. From photographic evidence, it's clear they're not verticle. I think I deferred to Mike's specs on that. There's plans which include that in his second book. I'll see if I can read and share them.

Yeah...I found the angle inclination for the Great Republic....it was published.  So I might conclude that the angle could be be similar if nothing comes available.  I think it was Sovereign of the Seas that had a true vertical mast step, but I can't be sure.  I do know several McKay clippers did.  If McKay follows his own practice he might have mimicked some of his other designs, such as Flying fish or Lightning.

 

Thanks for the help and for the homework project.

 

Rob  

[ClipperFan]

Rob, here's the specs on two other McKay Clippers:

1851 "Flying Fish"

All masts rake alike: 1 & 1/4" to 1'

 

1852 "Sovereign of the Seas"

Fore: 6/8ths" to 1'

Main: 7/8ths" to 1'

Mizzen: 1&1/8th" to 1'

 

It's very hard to read in Mike's 2nd book "Clipper Ship Captain" it almost looks like 96 degrees but from the near verticle pitch of all 3 masts it's got to be 98 degrees, meaning 2 degrees off verticle, since 4 degrees would be more of a rake. 

 

Incidentally "Sovereign of the Seas" registered 2,421 tons. She's described as being 11'8" 'through the backbone.' While no such specifics were given for "GLORY of the SEAS" using the same accounting method as ascribed to "Stag Hound" I was able to come up with a similar figure, very close to the Sovereign's. This is important to know for anyone planning to step Glory's masts, since they're obviously mounted above the backbone, which consisted of much more than the 29" keel and shoe alone.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, here's the specs on two other McKay Clippers:

1851 "Flying Fish"

All masts rake alike: 1 & 1/4" to 1'

 

1852 "Sovereign of the Seas"

Fore: 6/8ths" to 1'

Main: 7/8ths" to 1'

Mizzen: 1&1/8th" to 1'

 

It's very hard to read in Mike's 2nd book "Clipper Ship Captain" it almost looks like 96 degrees but from the near verticle pitch of all 3 masts it's got to be 98 degrees, meaning 2 degrees off verticle, since 4 degrees would be more of a rake. 

 

Incidentally "Sovereign of the Seas" registered 2,421 tons. She's described as being 11'8" 'through the backbone.' While no such specifics were given for "GLORY of the SEAS" using the same accounting method as ascribed to "Stag Hound" I was able to come up with a similar figure, very close to the Sovereign's. This is important to know for anyone planning to step Glory's masts, since they're obviously mounted above the backbone, which consisted of much more than the 29" keel and shoe alone.

Mmmmm.   Looks like an average of 1 1/2 degree rake.  
 

I knew the Sovereign nearly had vertical masts.   I was in error.  I’m not home but in Oregon for a funeral, so I’m going from bad memory.  
 

Good call. 
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Mmmmm.   Looks like an average of 1 1/2 degree rake.  
 

I knew the Sovereign nearly had vertical masts.   I was in error.  I’m not home but in Oregon for a funeral, so I’m going from bad memory.  
 

Good call. 
 

Rob

Rob, my condolences on your loss. Funerals are such powerfully emotional events. When you live a great distance from family, sometimes the only times you get together is either Weddings or Funerals...

[rwiederrich]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:00 PM, ClipperFan said:

Rob, my condolences on your loss. Funerals are such powerfully emotional events. When you live a great distance from family, sometimes the only times you get together is either Weddings or Funerals...

Thanks Rich...he was a favorite uncle...one of my wife's dads(who is passed away), brothers.

My wife now has no aunts or uncles from that side.....or her parents.😒

 

I hope to get back to the Glory...finish painting her port mizzen channel/chain plates and then move onto the starboard side.  I have all the parts pre-made...so they should go by faster.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich...he was a favorite uncle...one of my wife's dads(who is passed away), brothers.

My wife now has no aunts or uncles from that side.....or her parents.😒

 

I hope to get back to the Glory...finish painting her port mizzen channel/chain plates and then move onto the starboard side.  I have all the parts pre-made...so they should go by faster.

 

Rob

Rob, that's pretty tough for your poor wife. Give her my condolences for her difficult loss. When your last living relative passes, there's a peculiar loneliness that's attached to it....

By the way, I heard back from Mike after he received my Glory scan. He's asked for some prints so that he can send one to Ron Haug. This could get to be real interesting.....

[ClipperFan]

Rob & Vladimir, here's my preliminary sketch of the somewhat ornate front face of Glory's rear 'Carriage' house with her upper turned stanchion rails. MacLean's stats say this house was 45' long x 24' wide × 8' high. Pictures show the house had a roughly 3' overhang. Contrary to expectations, the turned stanchions are not strictly verticle, nor all evenly spaced. It appears the 3 central stanchions were 2 & 1/2' apart, the remaining 6 on either side were 2 & 3/4' apart and the last 2 were 1 & 1/2 feet apart, for a total of 12 stanchions in all. 

The 4 windows appear to be 1 & 1/2' wide and both door seem to be sliding, not pivoting and are only 2' wide each. The left side slid out towards the left (as can be seen in this photo. I would expect the opposite door would slide out to the right. 

At the base is a double molding, the lowest appears to be painted blue, the upper would most likely be white, being a raised surface. All recessed areas would have been pearl and highlights white. 

The left side of my sketch is inaccurate, done before I realized how truly narrow the windows and doors really were. 

So to make things easier, I cropped the right side & flipped it to create a corresponding identical left one. 

[BANYAN]

You are creating some very nice drawings/sketches ClipperFan.  The high level of cooperative input will result in some very accurate renditions.

 

cheers

 

Pat