rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2341 Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: Strange thing is on these pics topgalant is mounted differently not on crane but with a round parrel. seems it gets confusing it probably varied ship from ship isnt it... If you are looking for a double top gallant, lower then it will be hung like the lower top mast. this image is for a single top gallant. it is correct. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2342 Posted January 21, 2022 Thanks Pat ,Rob. I noticed weight to be factor too , I see iron yards and wooden were attached differently most likely for weight sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2343 Posted January 21, 2022 Rob, i did study a bit Forbes Howes patents and double topsail Howes innovation with truss as result of minimise cursed "hole between two sails " etc. got it now, upper topsail is movable on the trunk.....but im still uncertain about topgalant yard. being it quite large sail to me it doesnt look if one topgallant she is fitted firm on topmast cap or is she? that is my last uncertainty i swear. V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2344 Posted January 21, 2022 Only her lower topsail is fixed to the main mast cap via a crane. All other yards are mobile via leather laced metal parrels. Go get=em. Rob Vladimir_Wairoa and Keith Black 2 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2345 Posted January 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, rwiederrich said: Only her lower topsail is fixed to the main mast cap via a crane. All other yards are mobile via leather laced metal parrels. Go get=em. Rob Thank you Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2346 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: i did study a bit Forbes Howes patents Forbes and Howes are two separate designs. Forbes actually invented the double topsail. However, his design incorporated the lower topsail that slid up and down the topsail mast doubling portion. In essence hiding the lower topsail in the wind shadow of the main course, making furling it easier on the crew. (Great Republic used this design) The Howes modification took the Forbes design to the next level and permanently affixed it to the cap of the lower mast at the *tops*. It was stationary, but could swing and rotate on its crane. (Most clippers utilized this modified Forbes design (Known as the Howes design). Some designs also included a support bar underneath the yard that either extended to the tops or to a band fixed to the topmast doubling....(Glory's design). Rob Edited January 21, 2022 by rwiederrich Vladimir_Wairoa 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2347 Posted January 21, 2022 47 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: Thank you Rob. I'm here to help in any way I can.....clippers are my thing. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2348 Posted January 21, 2022 Hey Rob, when done with the Glory (and a glorious project she is) - how 'bout trying a bigger clipper ... the Preussen (1902) with 5 masts and a hull over over 430 feet and more than a 50 foot beam. 😉 Today is a 'red letter' day for my Wasa project (dormant since March of last year). So many things have been done on the Admiral's 'honey do' list (and Winter precludes anything outside), so I just 'up and started'. Now there was much to think about in the intervening months, and think/research I did. I concluded that there was so many inaccuracies in the late 60s 1:100 Billings kit partially done (due to far less being KNOWN then), a 'standoff scale' approach is appropriate without worrying too much about what is off from the prototype - and there is much I can do to correct some key things. I'll focus on the hull appearance and just put in the first sections of masts (like in the museum) to represent her still under construction. After all, she didn't get very far with only three sails set before sinking on her maiden voyage. Wood is a fairly forgiving medium, and all I had to do was start cutting and gluing in a logical order to start making more corrections. The 'Harbor Fright' mini table saw was acceptable (although there is no fence - so a clamped piece of wood had to do) once I installed a much higher tooth-count and thinner blade I was able to find with a 1/2" arbor hole (not easily located). Discovering that the arbor threads were reversed helped - 'leftie loosie' did not work, it turned out to be righty loosie! Slow and steady she goes. Johnny Vladimir_Wairoa 1 Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2349 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, rwiederrich said: Forbes and Howes are two separate designs. Forbes actually invented the double topsail. However, his design incorporated the lower topsail that slid up and down the topsail mast doubling portion. In essence hiding the lower topsail in the wind shadow of the main course, making furling it easier on the crew. (Great Republic used this design) The Howes modification took the Forbes design to the next level and permanently affixed it to the cap of the lower mast at the *tops*. It was stationary, but could swing and rotate on its crane. (Most clippers utilized this modified Forbes design (Known as the Howes design). Some designs also included a support bar underneath the yard that either extended to the tops or to a band fixed to the topmast doubling....(Glory's design). Rob Vladimir, here's a pic of "Cutty Sark's" mizzenmast. Second yardarm up is for the lower topsail. Enlarging the image will reveal the long thin iron pole supporting the yard. It's likely this added reinforcement was structural support for when the upper topsail yardarm would rest on the lower one. Edited January 21, 2022 by ClipperFan correction of information Vladimir_Wairoa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2350 Posted January 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, here's a pic of "Cutty Sark's" mizzenmast. Second yardarm up is for the lower topsail. Enlarging the image will reveal the long thin iron pole supporting the yard. It's likely this added reinforcement was structural support for when the upper topsail yardarm would rest on the lower one. Thanks Rich. yes yes I see that I updated my rigging education today for a whole lot i realised that in book american built clipper is last chapter dedicated to masting and rigging with examples. specially double topsail design. its all fascinating stuff i better move on more carefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 21, 2022 Share #2351 Posted January 21, 2022 43 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said: Hey Rob, when done with the Glory (and a glorious project she is) - how 'bout trying a bigger clipper ... the Preussen (1902) with 5 masts and a hull over over 430 feet and more than a 50 foot beam. 😉 Today is a 'red letter' day for my Wasa project (dormant since March of last year). So many things have been done on the Admiral's 'honey do' list (and Winter precludes anything outside), so I just 'up and started'. Now there was much to think about in the intervening months, and think/research I did. I concluded that there was so many inaccuracies in the late 60s 1:100 Billings kit partially done (due to far less being KNOWN then), a 'standoff scale' approach is appropriate without worrying too much about what is off from the prototype - and there is much I can do to correct some key things. I'll focus on the hull appearance and just put in the first sections of masts (like in the museum) to represent her still under construction. After all, she didn't get very far with only three sails set before sinking on her maiden voyage. Wood is a fairly forgiving medium, and all I had to do was start cutting and gluing in a logical order to start making more corrections. The 'Harbor Fright' mini table saw was acceptable (although there is no fence - so a clamped piece of wood had to do) once I installed a much higher tooth-count and thinner blade I was able to find with a 1/2" arbor hole (not easily located). Discovering that the arbor threads were reversed helped - 'leftie loosie' did not work, it turned out to be righty loosie! Slow and steady she goes. Johnny Snug Harbor Johnny, "Wasa" is simply an incredible find and what a treasure trove of information she's turned out to be. Perhaps most shocking is the literal riot of color this vessel actually was. Most Dock Yard models depict a very limited pallet yet in "Royal Wasa's" case, everything is depicted in lifelike reality. I'd love to see any progress pics you feel like sharing. By the way, I have Bjorn Landstrom's "Royal Wasa" book in original Swedish. If you need any reference pics, just let me know. Snug Harbor Johnny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2352 Posted January 21, 2022 Spent some time working the main mast futtock shrouds and deadeyes. Rob Vladimir_Wairoa, GrandpaPhil, KeithAug and 1 other 4 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #2353 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Stropped the7/64” dead eyes in wire prior to rigging. Rob Edited January 21, 2022 by rwiederrich BANYAN, GrandpaPhil, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share #2354 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) I'm jumping ahead a bit here, but I think I'm going to change up my original plan of not adding furled sails and I think I will furl the sails on the yards. However, typical furling in most folks eyes means a loosely hung furl.....but I think I am going to tightly furl the sails...where they are neatly stowed atop the yard over the jackstays. Clewed and garneted down tight. Clearly a much cleaner furl. Here, again(Using this photo), is my example of her sails neatly and tightly furled on each mast when she was docked in 1877 at San Francisco. I think this new decision will greatly enhance the effective detail of each yard and will greatly replicate a truer example of a lengthy stay in port. Also, for the readers info....this form of furling was more weather tight...creating a waterproof blanket over the entire sail...preventing water accumulation resulting in mold and rot. In essence, the sail was used to protect the sail. Ship shape! Rob Edited January 24, 2022 by rwiederrich Vladimir_Wairoa, KeithAug and Keith Black 3 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted January 24, 2022 Share #2355 Posted January 24, 2022 A good plan Rob, tightly furled sails (harbour fashion) will look great. cheers Pat TBlack, Keith Black and Vladimir_Wairoa 3 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 25, 2022 Share #2356 Posted January 25, 2022 Rob, you most definitely have an eagle eye. Great catch on those tightly furled sails. I didn't even realize they were there until you pointed them out! Vladimir_Wairoa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share #2357 Posted January 25, 2022 Spent some time working the mizzenmast mast. I finished up all the futtock shrouds on all the masts……so I’ll get some lower mast stuff done before I move to running the top mast shrouds. I have loads of eye bolts to place on each mast for lots of blocks and back stay connections and such. Rob GrandpaPhil, druxey, Vladimir_Wairoa and 1 other 4 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted January 25, 2022 Share #2358 Posted January 25, 2022 Great work Rob. Looks like you are having pillars standing Keith Black 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 25, 2022 Share #2359 Posted January 25, 2022 Rob, are you running the futtock shrouds to a single eye bolt or is it one shroud to one eye bolt? I'm at this stage on my build and I'm becalmed with indecision. TYIA Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share #2360 Posted January 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Keith Black said: Rob, are you running the futtock shrouds to a single eye bolt or is it one shroud to one eye bolt? I'm at this stage on my build and I'm becalmed with indecision. TYIA Keith…..I ran 3 shrouds to one eye bolt affixed to the single futtock band. Rob Keith Black and My Fathers Son 1 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 26, 2022 Share #2361 Posted January 26, 2022 Thank you, Rob. Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 26, 2022 Share #2362 Posted January 26, 2022 Rob, it'll be fascinating to see your step by step rigging procedure. Thanks for continuing to share this painstaking process. Keith Black 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share #2363 Posted January 26, 2022 38 minutes ago, ClipperFan said: Rob, it'll be fascinating to see your step by step rigging procedure. Thanks for continuing to share this painstaking process. Yes....rigging is quite complicated...especially, when you have to build and rig each yard...with eye bolts...banding , jackstays and blocks. Not to mention parrells and cranes/truss's. Each mast........main, topgallant, royal, sky...needs their own banding and eye bolts to affix backstays, haulyard and downhaul blocks. Meticulous study and pre-work needs to go into each mast....Before you begin rigging shrouds. I will follow my previous method and rig each mast along with its yards prior to gluing the mast to the hull. Each will kinda look like this example from the Great Republic...prior to install. It just makes assembly way easier. Rob Keith Black and GrandpaPhil 2 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted January 26, 2022 Share #2364 Posted January 26, 2022 Keith (and Rob), sorry not trying to confuse further, this is offered more as an FYI. The general practice, at least for the British, in this period was to use what was called a neckless to terminate the futtock shrouds at the associated lower mast. For the navy this was a solid iron band with a single (large) or individual eyebolts (usually on the futtock/truss band), or to a long 'U' bolt to which the shrouds attached. For mercantile ships, the practice was to use a chain neckless. Attached are a couple of pics from Underhill "The Masting and Rigging of the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier' and G Campbell 'China Tea Clippers'. If a single point was used, it was usually in the form of a 'span shackle'. The single point seems to have been more common and a larger eyebolt would successfully mimic this. cheers Pat Keith Black 1 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share #2365 Posted January 27, 2022 Thanks Pat for you detailed explanation. I would have explained it further myself when Keith asked…..but I kept it simple for the answer he needed for my particular modeling method. Thanks for your help in explaining. Rob Keith Black and BANYAN 2 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share #2366 Posted January 27, 2022 15 hours ago, rwiederrich said: Yes....rigging is quite complicated...especially, when you have to build and rig each yard...with eye bolts...banding , jackstays and blocks. Not to mention parrells and cranes/truss's. Each mast........main, topgallant, royal, sky...needs their own banding and eye bolts to affix backstays, haulyard and downhaul blocks. Meticulous study and pre-work needs to go into each mast....Before you begin rigging shrouds. I will follow my previous method and rig each mast along with its yards prior to gluing the mast to the hull. Each will kinda look like this example from the Great Republic...prior to install. It just makes assembly way easier. Rob Rob, beautiful mast, perfect symmetry. You consistently do such impressive, professional work! Vladimir_Wairoa and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share #2367 Posted January 27, 2022 13 hours ago, BANYAN said: Keith (and Rob), sorry not trying to confuse further, this is offered more as an FYI. The general practice, at least for the British, in this period was to use what was called a neckless to terminate the futtock shrouds at the associated lower mast. For the navy this was a solid iron band with a single (large) or individual eyebolts (usually on the futtock/truss band), or to a long 'U' bolt to which the shrouds attached. For mercantile ships, the practice was to use a chain neckless. Attached are a couple of pics from Underhill "The Masting and Rigging of the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier' and G Campbell 'China Tea Clippers'. If a single point was used, it was usually in the form of a 'span shackle'. The single point seems to have been more common and a larger eyebolt would successfully mimic this. cheers Pat Banyan, Pat thanks for this explanation with associated images. Since all Shrouds align to a similar location, this simple solution makes eminent sense. It would be interesting to see if American counterparts utilized the same approach. Keith Black and BANYAN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share #2368 Posted January 27, 2022 Rob, Vladimir, Pat, here's a close up of USS Constitution's Foretop. The Shrouds are arranged in dual loops from Bow to Stern. While you can't see what they're arranged through it appears they all go through a single long source. Vladimir_Wairoa and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share #2369 Posted January 27, 2022 Beautiful pics Rich. Just informational. I make 3 sizes of eye bolts for the masts and yards. Tiny little things. Rob GrandpaPhil, BANYAN, My Fathers Son and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share #2370 Posted January 27, 2022 50 minutes ago, rwiederrich said: Beautiful pics Rich. Just informational. I make 3 sizes of eye bolts for the masts and yards. Tiny little things. Rob Rob, you must have Tom Thumb on your Shipyard's payroll..... My Fathers Son and Vladimir_Wairoa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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