HBMS Amphion 1798 by Matrim - 32 Gun 18pdr Frigate

[Matrim]

Just produced the Stem Plans. Not really certain of the best way to get the tapering on the plan so we'll have to see if this approach works or if it needs further adjustments..

 

 

 

I have enough to get started (and keep me busy a few months) so I might stop work on plans until my Bounty is out of the way and start when I start work on the build.

 

 

Then again....hmm have to consider the pros and cons.

 

 

[Matrim]

Not decided yet so am continuing (at least until the spine of the ship is potentially done so the knee of the head, stern posts/rudder/rear deadwood) as an when really.

 

Next shot is the side view of the apron

 

 

Nothing very exciting though the split in three appears unusual (either that or other plans deliberately leave it at two to simplify the piece..)

 

I considered doing a fron view but since that will involve various curves to fit I will eventually cut to sized wood and resize above and below the bearding line accordingly. Well that is the current plan and may change when tool comes to wood..

 

Cheers for reading as always. I may do the knee of the head side view next following the same setup mainly as that is relatively simple..

[BANYAN]

I'm following along Joss and enjoying your discussion.  I am currently doing a simple 2D plan and side elevation drawing of the Victoria, but one day hope to draw up full plans - so I am following along to see what you do 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

Isn't the aft piece the fore deadwood rather than a third section of apron?

[Matrim]

That would make logical sense except for the fact that the majority of the cant frames sit on that piece... When I get home tonight I will post a composite of all the relevant pieces of that section (apron, stem, keelson) which should help validate/deny...

[Matrim]

K here are some more 'global' plans. I have adjusted the colour of what is assumed to be the apron (above) to light green so it can be picked out amongst the surroundings easier.

 

 

Second shot includes the cant frames but focuses more on the keel area than the above

 

 

I am going to have to search through some of the paper plans though as I also decided to validate against the originals and on the sheer (at least) the upper joint does not occur.  Therefore it is possible that the lower apron is very short and the upper quite long.. I shall have to go and drag out all the plans though as that joint will have occured on one of them otherwise it would not have been added to the master..

[druxey]

Looks like an upper and lower piece to the fore deadwood to my eye, Joss. 

[jackenzombie]

Joss,

 

I really like your drawings but are you sure about size and shape of the scarph between gripe and main piece ? I think it is unusually long...

 

/Rainer

[wrkempson]

The long line between the lips of the scarph is actually an arc, I suspect.  Several years ago there was a discussion of the shape of the "flat" of the scarph of the stem pieces at 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4080-scantling-questions/page-17#entry289479

 

If that discussion is accurate, and I suspect it is, then perhaps the scarph of the break water is also curved.  The "flat" arc passes through a point halfway between the lips and at the mid point for the thickness of the timber.  Attached shows this for the scarph in question.

 

 

I think this makes a much more serviceable joint.

 

Wayne

[Matrim]

On the scarph the length was indicated by the plans and I always take the plans over other considerations (inlcuding Steel). I also (deliberately) flatten the scarph because it makes it easier to cut and join pieces together so is a simplification of actual practice to simplify building. Useful to know what it should be so thank you both.

 

I have also looked around the various books and in the Swan and Euryalus the plans have the apron in two piece , labelled the apron. In the Naid the relevent section is in three pieces and the joints match shape and direction with the ones in mine with the lowest joint marked lower apron and the upper two upper apron. All the books have deadwood above the apron and all the books have the apron starting next to (but not exactly on) the upper line of the rising wood. So as far as I can tell (and lets face it we have several authors here so anything I say should be taken with a ton of salt if it in any way disagrees with posted pronouncements) this is the apron. I will try and move into more primary sources though (and still have not checked the other plans).

 

Thanks all for your comments..

[Matrim]

Madce an attempt at a knee of the head plan. May not go this approach (which requires more research) as I am still umming and aaing about different structures and possibly simplifying to make the construction easier.

 

 

 

From what I have read so far there are several different ways of building this up so it is a matter of designer preference as to how...

[BANYAN]

Be a lot easier if there weren't so many options huh Joss  I am having the same issue with researching my Victoria.  You seem to be making some good headway though.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Matrim]

Thanks, a part of me does keep thinking how much stronger the end structure would be (and easier to make) if I just did it in one piece. I keep hitting that part of me on the head with a plank of wood to keep it in check..

[druxey]

Joss: the standard and extension were generally smaller, along the lines of the image I've taken the liberty of drawing over. The narrow 'wear' strip along the fore edge was made to be easily replaceable. Feel free to ignore my suggestions!

[Matrim]

I will adjust accordingly! Thanks for the info.. A lot of those lines were approximations dependant on the relevant books...

[Matrim]

Onwards and upwards! Anyway I have adjusted the stem closer to Druxeys ever helpfull hints and have moved onto the rear deadwood. This is just a first attempt as I may play around with the tops of the sternposts slightly as I dont think I have enough detail on the plans to make an accurate attempt. The wing transom also looks a bit severe to my eyes but it is supposed to be at an angle so I may just have to check things through.

 

[druxey]

Looks pretty good to me. Would the aft end of 'Deadwood 5' have a lip rather than taper to a point?

[BANYAN]

You are making some great progress there mate; looking good.  Sorry I cannot offer technical comment as I simply do not have the experience, but I am closely following to learn what I can for when I have the same exercise to do for my build.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Matrim]

thanks both, i will also add deadwood 5 to my list of things to check on before continuing..

[allanyed]

Joss and Druxey

The NMM plans for Euryalus show the deadwood piece number five with the same tapered aft end.  Not to say that is how it was actually built, just that the drawings show this feature.   I did some looking at the "Collections" at NMM and there is a stern model showing that each piece of the deadwood had a lip on the aft end.  

Allan

[Matrim]

Next little update is the Keelson plan. I will do the Stemson Knee and Stemson on a seperate sheet later. Not particularly exciting admittedly. Plans have slowed as of late as I have been spending a lot of time on the deck of my Bounty. Unfortunately I am suspecting it has been too much time as I am getting the distinct impression I have gone overboard with the treenails. It might be the scale (1:64) makes it more intrusive than the Triton Cross section (1:48). I am hoping that when the holes are filled and the deck is caulked that it will not look quite so in your face but we will see..It currently looks a bit like that pinhead monster from that old horror film.

 

[wrkempson]

I am interested to know if you have taken the scarph arrangements from your plans.  In a brief review last night, it seems that the scarphs were not usually drawn in.  For Euryalus they were drawn in.  I am attaching the keelson pieces from Euryalus that indicates the orientation of the scarphs.  I could never make a great deal of sense out of it.  The only thing I could come up with was that the keelson pieces were installed in the order 4,5,6,1,2,3.  This would allow two gangs to fit the pieces in situ (4&1, 2&5, 6&3 being done simultaneously).  Your arrangement, of course, would install 1,2,3,4,5,6.  This is no big deal, but I thought I would mention it in passing.

 

Wayne

 

[Matrim]

The scarphs were indeed taken off the plans directly; they were on the sheer plan. I am pleased I did not have to guess the location...

[druxey]

It's interesting to note the variations in direction of keelson scarphs. On my present model the pieces were installed starting aft.

[vossiewulf]

On 6/1/2017 at 7:11 PM, druxey said:

It's interesting to note the variations in direction of keelson scarphs. On my present model the pieces were installed starting aft.

Probably the kind of thing that started barfights at ship builder conventions.

[Mark P]

Greetings gentlemen;

 

Some very interesting points have been raised above.  I have the NMM draught of 'Tremendous',  a 74 launched in 1785.  She has exactly the same arrangement of scarphs in the keelson as Wayne has drawn above:  1,2 - 4,5,6,  with 3 obviously fitted last.  Splitting this into work for two gangs makes sense.

 

Shipwrights were paid in instalments for the work,  with each payment related to the completion of a recognised stage in the building.  I am not sure of all the stages,  but I believe that the laying of the keelson was the final part of one of these.  In which case,  quite possibly the final part of the keelson was known as 'the money piece'  (or the 'let's all go down to the tavern' piece!)

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Matrim]

After using my vast mod powers to  merge together both the plan generation topics and the first build attempt topic (and in the process making the last eight pages utterly unreadable. I shall now wave my magic wand and transfer this to the scratch build section as I am just about ready to make attempt 356 at this build. With due sense of dread and fear.

 

For the  next month or so I just plan on deciding on scale, materials and structure (and tidying the workshop) before starting cutting into wood around spring. 
 

I will therefore be indecisive about all those decisions to the probable fury of anyone trying to follow along.

[Landrotten Highlander]

pulling up a chair, as it is very possible I have missed al the fun in the past.

[BANYAN]

Look forward to it Matrim; looks like you have researched her fairly thoroughly.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

Ah! So you are returned, Matrim. Welcome back. Your audience is getting settled. House lights down, curtain up!