USS Constitution by Force9 - Revell - PLASTIC - Revisiting the classic 1/96 kit

[scottpchooch]

Wondering easiest way to replicate  a weathered wooden deck hope this is correct forum ?

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello Force9,

 

I am fascinated by your excellent modification of this iconic kit.  The standard you are working to is quite high, and perfectly exemplifies the notion that one can make a serious model from a plastic kit.  I will be following along with great interest.

 

All the best,

 

Marc

[Marcus.K.]

Ahoy there, whats up, doc?

 

Last night I was re-reading this wonderful log... and tonight I re-checked my conversations I had with many experienced people... one of them Cmd  Tyrone Martin who was so nice to share some lines. I forgot so much.  But this here reminded me on your build, @Force9so I have to share it:

[Quote]

When at sea, the only anchors to be seen topside were the stream and sheet anchors stowed out board of hull near amidships.  Both bower anchors were taken in  (and usually broken down) for stowage on deck, often on the gun deck benath the boat towage.  The anchor cables were all struck below.  The hawse holes in the bows were covered with "bucklers," covers  that were held in place by plugs that extended inboard and had strongbacks extending to either side of the inner edges of the holes to insure they stayed in place.[/quote]

T. Martin in an email.

Seems your anchor is stored correct, Sir!

Hope you are all doing well in these crazy times.

[Ageofsail]

Hi Marcus, just saw this post, it make me wonder, when you're presenting the ship in port, as I am, sails furled in the yards, how do you represent the anchors? It would seem the bow anchors, given the shallow water would necessarily be deployed to be dropped if required. However, if she was at sea, this quote makes sense. Thoughts anyone? 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ageofsail

[Bill Morrison]

Evan,

It has been so long for an update from you!  I have missed your work on the Connie, and I sincerely hope that you are keeping up with her.  It's great finding this thread again.

Bill

[Nirvana]

On 12/31/2016 at 12:39 PM, Professor said:

 

If I may be so bold as to respond in Evan's stead, if you're looking for wooden veneer decking for the big Revell Constitution, try these folks:

http://www.scaledecks.com/our-story.html

Have a safe and healthy New Year, mate, and may all your builds be top class.

 I bought that deck for my Connie (waiting in the yard - box), to me it has to much color. Don't know if I am going with that or the Vallejo Wood paint kit.

[Bill Morrison]

Aftermarket products are also available from HiSModel.com if you are interested.

 

Bill

[Bill Morrison]

On 1/2/2017 at 5:49 AM, popeye the sailor said:

consider that site bookmarked!    I saw they list wood decking for the 1:96 United States........I think of all the trouble I went through to make my own  

Also try www.HiSModel.com. Radek offers a far more extensive range of after-market products for this and other sailing ships as well.

 

Bill

[Force9]

Ahoy!

After too long of a break I was finally able to revisit the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem Massachusetts this past month to enjoy the new maritime gallery and refresh my research on the Hull model rigging. The last time I was there (pre-COVID) the Hull model had been put into storage while construction outside the museum was rattling the foundations.  I've been eager to see it back on display. Obviously the fates intervened and knocked down any travel plans for a few years while things settled out a bit.  In the meantime, the PEM curators re-imagined the presentation of their maritime collection into a terrific new gallery.  Now both the Hull model of the Frigate Constitution AND the Michele Felice Cornè painted series of the Guerriere battle are displayed together.  I don't have to hike all across the museum complex to find everything!

 

I have a new tranche of photos to share - I'll try to refresh my existing Hull Model photo gallery and resend a link.

 

In the meantime I will sort out my modeling bench and see if I can get tee'd up for the next phase of my original build.  However - there is a new project I need to prioritize to fulfill a promise to my daughter... I have the Trumpeter 1/200 Titanic in the queue.  More to come.

 

Cheers

Evan

 

2F28E23B-F1D4-4164-BB61-245C35AA8C4B.heic

Edited November 20, 2023 by Force9

[Hubac's Historian]

Glad to dee you back in action!

[Nirvana]

On 2/3/2022 at 7:25 AM, Bill Morrison said:

Also try www.HiSModel.com. Radek offers a far more extensive range of after-market products for this and other sailing ships as well.

 

Bill

Radek at HiSModel.com and the decks seems to be superior to the deck I got. Besides he also offer so much more of aftermarket items for the ship.

[mtaylor]

Even, your last batch of photos didn't through.  All that's there is what appears to be part of a link...probably to your camera/phone.   Try uploading using the "choose files" at the lower left hand of the screen when you post.

[Force9]

Thanks for the heads up Mark... I can't seem to load any picture from my Google drive using the upload functionality.  I'll need to regroup.

 

Cheers

Evan

[Bill Morrison]

Evan,

 

WELCOME BACK!!!!!  I have missed you!

 

Bill

 

[Force9]

Hello Bill!

 

Thank you for your continued interest in this build and many apologies for going dark for so long.  No health or family issues - just got very busy with work and supporting kids in college, etc.  Primarily I had paused to do more research, but as noted above I got derailed.  In the meantime I have acquired a bunch of 3D print goodies from Model Monkey including carronades and main gun deck armament.  You haven't missed any meaningful progress - everything has been mostly on pause as far as build progress. I'm looking forward to catching up and reading about the other Revell Constitution builds.

 

Cheers

Evan

[Bill Morrison]

Evan,

 

In the interim since we last spoke, I have retired from teaching.  I am now totally retired first, from the USN, second, from teaching, and I also collect Social Security. Life is good!  But, the past year and a half has been horrible. My wife nearly died from a cardiac aneurism. She's recovered nicely but it took a long while. Then, I shattered my left knee and my left hip in two separate falls.  I am still dealing with problems from both.  However, I am nearly through with my conversion of the 1/96 Revell CSS Alabama to correct most of the kit's inaccuracies.  It has been a labor of love!

 

Bill

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using this deck plan as guidance, I intend to include shot racks in between the 24 pdr guns on my model in addition to what you already see around the hatches.

 

The spar deck is another matter... I will include shot storage around the hatches on that deck as well, but NOT include shot racks between the carronades.  Despite the guidance from the Bluejacket manual and other representations (Gilkerson’s painting in the Gillmer “Old Ironsides...” book), I just don’t think that was a practical solution.  Many of those guns have pin rails in between them and the necessary cordage dangling down would likely be in the way... The same deck plans of USS United States offer a solution.  Here is the spar deck:

 

 

 

 

This clearly shows that the carronades would have a tray of round shot close at hand for battle as well as shot stored around the hatches.  There is also another clue that helps me justify my approach.  If you were a famous personage back in that era, the most flattering compliment would be to have your portrait painted by an accomplished artist.  This was a very expensive thing to do back in those days - often many thousands of dollars in an age when a good sailor made 10 bucks a month.  The important businessmen in the City of New York commonly took up a subscription to pay for a commissioned work of military heroes after a great victory.  They gradually built up a significant "Hall of Fame" collection in city hall.  Here is the one done for Commodore William Bainbridge following his victory over HMS Java (still in the collection of the city of New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/artcom/html/portrait/portrait.shtml😞

 

 

 

We see the talented artist captured the Commodore’s famous arrogance and pomposity.  He has also captured something else - look at the shot tray under Bainbridge’s boot.  This is the approach I’ll take for the spar deck.  (We’ll come back to this painting when it comes time for the carronades).

 

 

I don’t mean to overly sway everyone in my direction. Unlike Cdr Tyrone Martin and others, I’m not an historian or professional researcher... Folks have to go with what works for them and this approach just feels right to me.

 

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

 

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using this deck plan as guidance, I intend to include shot racks in between the 24 pdr guns on my model in addition to what you already see around the hatches.

 

The spar deck is another matter... I will include shot storage around the hatches on that deck as well, but NOT include shot racks between the carronades.  Despite the guidance from the Bluejacket manual and other representations (Gilkerson’s painting in the Gillmer “Old Ironsides...” book), I just don’t think that was a practical solution.  Many of those guns have pin rails in between them and the necessary cordage dangling down would likely be in the way... The same deck plans of USS United States offer a solution.  Here is the spar deck:

 

 

 

 

This clearly shows that the carronades would have a tray of round shot close at hand for battle as well as shot stored around the hatches.  There is also another clue that helps me justify my approach.  If you were a famous personage back in that era, the most flattering compliment would be to have your portrait painted by an accomplished artist.  This was a very expensive thing to do back in those days - often many thousands of dollars in an age when a good sailor made 10 bucks a month.  The important businessmen in the City of New York commonly took up a subscription to pay for a commissioned work of military heroes after a great victory.  They gradually built up a significant "Hall of Fame" collection in city hall.  Here is the one done for Commodore William Bainbridge following his victory over HMS Java (still in the collection of the city of New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/artcom/html/portrait/portrait.shtml😞

 

 

 

We see the talented artist captured the Commodore’s famous arrogance and pomposity.  He has also captured something else - look at the shot tray under Bainbridge’s boot.  This is the approach I’ll take for the spar deck.  (We’ll come back to this painting when it comes time for the carronades).

 

 

I don’t mean to overly sway everyone in my direction. Unlike Cdr Tyrone Martin and others, I’m not an historian or professional researcher... Folks have to go with what works for them and this approach just feels right to me.

 

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using this deck plan as guidance, I intend to include shot racks in between the 24 pdr guns on my model in addition to what you already see around the hatches.

 

The spar deck is another matter... I will include shot storage around the hatches on that deck as well, but NOT include shot racks between the carronades.  Despite the guidance from the Bluejacket manual and other representations (Gilkerson’s painting in the Gillmer “Old Ironsides...” book), I just don’t think that was a practical solution.  Many of those guns have pin rails in between them and the necessary cordage dangling down would likely be in the way... The same deck plans of USS United States offer a solution.  Here is the spar deck:

 

 

 

 

This clearly shows that the carronades would have a tray of round shot close at hand for battle as well as shot stored around the hatches.  There is also another clue that helps me justify my approach.  If you were a famous personage back in that era, the most flattering compliment would be to have your portrait painted by an accomplished artist.  This was a very expensive thing to do back in those days - often many thousands of dollars in an age when a good sailor made 10 bucks a month.  The important businessmen in the City of New York commonly took up a subscription to pay for a commissioned work of military heroes after a great victory.  They gradually built up a significant "Hall of Fame" collection in city hall.  Here is the one done for Commodore William Bainbridge following his victory over HMS Java (still in the collection of the city of New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/artcom/html/portrait/portrait.shtml😞

 

 

 

We see the talented artist captured the Commodore’s famous arrogance and pomposity.  He has also captured something else - look at the shot tray under Bainbridge’s boot.  This is the approach I’ll take for the spar deck.  (We’ll come back to this painting when it comes time for the carronades).

 

 

I don’t mean to overly sway everyone in my direction. Unlike Cdr Tyrone Martin and others, I’m not an historian or professional researcher... Folks have to go with what works for them and this approach just feels right to me.

 

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using this deck plan as guidance, I intend to include shot racks in between the 24 pdr guns on my model in addition to what you already see around the hatches.

 

The spar deck is another matter... I will include shot storage around the hatches on that deck as well, but NOT include shot racks between the carronades.  Despite the guidance from the Bluejacket manual and other representations (Gilkerson’s painting in the Gillmer “Old Ironsides...” book), I just don’t think that was a practical solution.  Many of those guns have pin rails in between them and the necessary cordage dangling down would likely be in the way... The same deck plans of USS United States offer a solution.  Here is the spar deck:

 

 

 

 

This clearly shows that the carronades would have a tray of round shot close at hand for battle as well as shot stored around the hatches.  There is also another clue that helps me justify my approach.  If you were a famous personage back in that era, the most flattering compliment would be to have your portrait painted by an accomplished artist.  This was a very expensive thing to do back in those days - often many thousands of dollars in an age when a good sailor made 10 bucks a month.  The important businessmen in the City of New York commonly took up a subscription to pay for a commissioned work of military heroes after a great victory.  They gradually built up a significant "Hall of Fame" collection in city hall.  Here is the one done for Commodore William Bainbridge following his victory over HMS Java (still in the collection of the city of New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/artcom/html/portrait/portrait.shtml😞

 

 

 

We see the talented artist captured the Commodore’s famous arrogance and pomposity.  He has also captured something else - look at the shot tray under Bainbridge’s boot.  This is the approach I’ll take for the spar deck.  (We’ll come back to this painting when it comes time for the carronades).

 

 

I don’t mean to overly sway everyone in my direction. Unlike Cdr Tyrone Martin and others, I’m not an historian or professional researcher... Folks have to go with what works for them and this approach just feels right to me.

 

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

...

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

[Marcus.K.]

On 2/23/2013 at 8:30 PM, Force9 said:

....

I would think, however, that shot storage around the hatches would be a standard approach in 1812.  Certainly many period models would show these included.  But is there more justification?

 

 

Here is my reasoning... Old Ironsides pounded HMS Guerriere to kindling in only 30 minutes.  Evidence very strongly suggests that part of the reason was that the American gun crews fired TWO round shot on EVERY discharge during the battle.  The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. That is a lot of cannon balls to have to haul up the companionways. Common sense would suggest that the crew pre-positioned most of that in shot racks before the shooting began - and they'd need plenty of storage.  I suspect that there was storage around the hatches AND in between each gun - at least on the main gun deck.  This would seem to be supported by the c1820 gun deck plan of USS United States made by Charles Ware which shows both storage options in place:

 

...

 

Thanks for enduring a brain dump.

 

I love to read frequently your posts, @Force9 .. what´s your beauty doing?

And even more important: how are you doing? Hope all sails are up and flying?? 

 

Concerning your conclusion from data: "The data suggests that each gun shot @10 times in 30 minutes. "

wouldn´t in a single ship combat the 10 shot´s per gun and 30 min. mean that they shot in fact 20 times per 30 min?.. or maybe double shots for short range maximized damage? ..

... since there would not be any sense in using both sides the same time - but sequentially?

[Force9]

Ahoy Marcus!

 

Thanks for reaching out (and revisiting my log)... Yes - My contention is that the data and the after battle debrief suggests that the Constitution fired double-shotted rounds during the brief action with Guerriere.  Cmdr. Martin did not seem to consider this to explain the ammunition usage.

 

All is well on my end... I will be starting up again on this project once I have finished my commitment to build the Trumpeter 1/200 Titanic for my daughter.  I think you have stumbled on that other build log already and I hope you follow along.  I don't seem to have many followers on that project, but it is about to get more interesting with some customizations.

 

I hope all is well with you and your family.  

 

Cheers!

Evan

[Rob-Squid]

Very happy to hear you will return to your USS Constitution build. Also pleased to see your latest Titanic project! Have you found the Titanic Research & Modeling Association archive? The site has been closed for quite some time, however all of it was archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20180330092710/http:/titanic-model.com/

 

Right click and open in a new tab. And if you haven't seen it already, be ready to be amazed!

 

All of it is 'build specific' to the Minicraft 1/350th however  invaluable info. for any scale.  

 

There's also a site called the Rivet Counter/ The Official Titanic Scale Model Tutorial: http://www.rivet-counter.com/Tutorial/Tutorial_Index.html

 

Tons and tons of historic accurate research! You can spend months just perusing.

 

Anyway, I thought some hardship had perhaps befallen you, so glad to see you around.

 

FYI, it was your Constitution build log that convinced me to become a contributing ($) member to both the NRG and MSW. I'm sure I'm not the only one : ) .

 

Best regards and thank you for your generosity.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Rob-Squid

[Force9]

Hello @Rob-Squid

 

Thank you for the kind note...  I appreciate the Titanic resources.  I did not know that the old Titanic Research &Modeling Association site had been archived.  That is a terrific repository.  I did view the Rivet Counter site a few times in the past and found plenty of treasure to mine there... 

 

Thanks also for your callout of this build log for inspiring you to deepen your engagement with this site along with the NRG.  I'm thrilled to know that folks have found value in my efforts and have kept an eye out for new updates.

 

I do have this new distraction, but I may try a few things on this project while I'm also working on the Titanic... We'll see.

 

Cheers

Evan

[Niemand]

This is all so fascinating—all kinds of valuable data. I've been looking everywhere for the sailors that came with my Revell USS Constitution 1:96 bi-centennial edition. I bought it used. The previous owner's kids took them—also two of the lifeboats. I've looked at HO characters but have not found anything suitable.

 

I built the same edition long ago. Took years. One of my cats knocked it off shelf. Landed masts down. So I found the edition on ebay and I'm building again. I found it so amazing though to have the internet this time. 

 

Force9 your attention to detail and craftsmanship are amazing.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Force9]

Ahoy @Niemand...

 

Apologies for missing your note.  

 

Many thanks for the kind remarks - I really do appreciate folks stumbling on my build and finding some value... As it happens, I've started working a few elements on this project.  I am hoping to get the halves fused together with the gun deck in place along with the rudder and stern details.  I'd like to have it set up with pedestals mounted on a wooden plinth in the near future.

 

Cheers

Evan