US Brig Syren by SparrowHawk7 - Model Shipways - 1:64 - First build

[Gregory]

That looks really close..  Margin planks and waterway should provide zero clearance in the end..

[SparrowHawk7]

OK ... I have a couple questions. From what I understand, deck planks are anywhere between 6, 9 or 12' long - that doesn't exactly coincide with the directions. But let's say I opt to use 12'. At 1/64 scale that would be roughly 2.5" if my math is correct. That doesn't seem to lend itself to a visually pleasing 4 butt shift as the butts joints would be pretty tightly packed together ending up looking a bit busy - especially if I use treenails. The instructions say the planks should be about 4 bulkheads long. Since the bulkheads are not all the same distance apart on the model that is a difficult length to figure - perhaps 4"? I need to determine the actual plank length before beginning to lay out the pattern for the deck planking. But 5" would make an easy length to divide by 5 for the 4 butt shift pattern. That would make about a 24' plank which might be too long. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Chuck in the directions talks about a 4 butt shift but seems to be using a 3 butt shift. Does it matter? Which would be most correct? I'm a bit confused ...

 

Secondly, to begin the planking I would assume you start along the center line to keep it all straight. Would the first plank be a full length plank set along the center line from the center of the bow? If so that means the pattern would begin from there to port, say. Is the identical pattern repeated to starboard as well? Or is the pattern actually started on one side or the other and then carries across the deck from Starboard to port or vice versa? Basically, where does the pattern start? The zero point, so to speak?

 

Thanks.

Ken

[Gregory]

Here are a couple of patterns from How To Do Deck Planking On Wooden Model Ships

 

 

A pretty good guide.  There are other options for a tree nail pattern.  Keep in mind that visible tree nails at this scale are a modeling convention rather than something that would be visible at scale.  Use a look that you find acceptable based on other models you have looked at..

[VTHokiEE]

12 hours ago, SparrowHawk7 said:

But let's say I opt to use 12'. At 1/64 scale that would be roughly 2.5" if my math is correct.

I think it’s 2.25”, I wish I could be or more service but I’ve never planked a deck (yet). I think a little bit comes down to what you think is going to be most pleasing to your eye. In this case I would suggest cutting a small section of plywood (if you have scraps) and plank it for a few different styles. 2.25” (or 2.5”) at 3 and 4 butt shift, then maybe do one at 4” lengths. Try tree nailing at one. Step back and experiment and see what you think you might like.

 

A few on the planked decks I do recall them starting in the center. I think they all used solid planks between the various deck elements. Then then lay the margin planks (and if you get really ambitious add in the jogging, I think that’s the right term).

 

Good luck!

[SparrowHawk7]

Hey guys ... thanks for the replies. I got enough planking to allow for a lot of errors so I have plenty to do a section and see how that looks.  That was a good idea as it will also let me gain some experience in laying the deck out. I will mark that article, Gregory, and refer to it as I go.

 

I am somewhat inclined to forego the nibbling/jogging on this model. I am being challenged enough by plenty of other things, and the coppering is on the horizon so I think putting that off for another model will save me some headaches. I am rather hopeful, however, that this false decking will allow me more accuracy in the planking and that should bring better results.

 

Not much I can do though at the moment ... I got plenty of extra strips for the planking but they won't arrive till later in the week. So research is the order of the day.

 

Ken

[SparrowHawk7]

A bit more progress although no pics. I laid the false deck after fitting it as well as I could - pretty close actually if I do say so myself. But it is down in 2 pieces - the bow to near the companionway and there to the stern as the second piece. There is actually something of a camber although I wasn't working with that in mind at this point. Then I got the margin pieces for the bow and sanded them to fit. I just glued a second margin piece down the port side - maybe 8" long. As it bends slightly I put some heavy weights on it to hold it while the glue sets. Getting the scarf joint to look right was tricky at such a small scale but this one isn't bad. I also marked the center line of the deck and measured off 1" divisions along that for the butt pattern. I decided to use a 5" plank which would then require 5 one inch divisions to make a 4 butt shift. I also drew lines across the deck at those 1" intervals so I can use that roughly for the butts. Next I will finish the scarf joints and take the margin boards to the stern. The margin planks are 1/16" thick so therefore higher than my 1/32" decking but I couldn't figure a good way to overcome that without high risk so I will live with it. Then will be time for the king plank which will be fun. I don't exactly want to start the pattern the first board at the bow so I think I will start a couple inches to the stern. I'll measure and try stuff to be sure of course, but that's my thinking. The full plank of the pattern will go on either side of the king plank which will lead to a uniform pattern left/right which will show. I've no idea of that is right or not but I can't find any information about that so I'll guess.

 

The hope is that this will turn out looking good. So far it is but then I've only glued 3 planks down. The entire thing doesn't quite look right just yet so I am forced to continue on. Photos will make their way eventually once there is something to see. It doesn't look like the swivels are going to fit in the end. I had hoped they would but I honestly wasn't all that confident. Oh well .... something to remember and plan for next time.

 

Ken

Edited November 22, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[Overworked724]

Keep up the fight, Ken!

[SparrowHawk7]

The gun ports have been my nemesis throughout this build ... and they are once again. This time there is no fix for the problem which is still about the same. They are not at the right height. I just finished fitting and gluing the margin planks. Those fit well enough - I could have done better with the scarf joints but they don't jump out as horrible. Where the problem really does raise its ugly head is the height of the gun ports. For a couple of the ports nearest the bow the deck is half way up their opening which shows horribly. Short of removing the bulwarks and started them from scratch which is just not feasible at this stage, I am going to have to figure out a way around this. Probably the most reasonable "fix" is to have the gun port covers on those ports in the down/closed position. Then I can put the guns in the run in positions and live with that. The gun ports will still be obviously too low from the inside but with the port closed it won't show that much and I am thinking of facing the ship for display the other direction anyway due to a gouge in the bulkhead planking on the starboard side. The deck is somewhat lower on that side but nobody can really even see the problem on the near side. We'll see, I will decide which side is best later on in the build. Good grief ... it's always something isn't it? Oh well ... I'm gaining experience and building skills. They say it takes 5000 hours to build a good skill. I've usually done it much quicker and I hope this will follow that trend but nonetheless, it does take time and making all sorts of mistakes to learn things. At least I recognize where things are lacking so I am on the right track.

 

Next I need to lay out deck furniture and then do the framing of it and painting areas below gratings black. That shouldn't take too long and then I can finally get to laying planks. It's slow going but then I am not under any time restrictions anyway.

 

Thanks for watching and listening to my ramblings.

Ken

[Overworked724]

Ken, we all run into these types of setbacks. Pics help (and embarrassing as it might seem…my screw ups brought a lot of brilliant feedback from experienced modelers). Don’t be afraid to post them.  This forum’s value really comes from the helpful feedback.

 

Gun port doors closed is one way to fix the cosmetics. Remember, it’s your model, and as long as your learning and having fun (marathon…not sprint) then that’s all that counts.
 

👍🏽 
 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Overworked724

[SparrowHawk7]

Got a bit more done today.

 

I laid out the deck accoutrements before realizing they go on TOP of the decking. I had thought to frame the decking around them but to do that accurately would require me to also build the structures first to be sure the framing fit them correctly ... and that would take me way beyond where I should be just now so that was an interesting waste of time although I now can visualize things a bit better. I also painted the grate opening areas black so they wouldn't show but that was wasted time as well.  However after that I laid the king plank which is now drying. I need to figure out the butt shift pattern before moving ahead. The deck is marked out in 1" intervals specifically for a 4 butt shift. Therefore the planks are cut in 5" lengths. I guess you can't see the scarf joints ... and that is probably a good sign that I didn't entirely screw them up. 😉

 

 

 

Unfortunately you can clearly see the problem of the misplaced gun ports - especially at the bow. I can probably sand others down to fit but the most forward two are simply too high to anything with. Live and learn.

 

 

I think I'm on the right track now though.

 

Thanks for watching,

Ken

[Overworked724]

Ken, every model has warts. Kind of like houses. My Syren does not follow the typical symmetrical butt shift pattern, because I butted the sections at the points where a frame was located. Actual ship framing would make this job fairly simple. So, my Syren is not ‘historically accurate’.  
 

Just saying…no model is perfect. 😁 But I love doing stuff in my shiproom…the hobby is filled with great people/historians/shipwrights which make this a great forum. 
 

Enjoy the day!!!   I think your perseverance is inspiring. 👍🏽 I continue to watch your build with great interest and I am learning from your challenges as well.  🦃🍁🍽

[SparrowHawk7]

Thanks Patrick - your encouragement means a lot. I am not known for giving up on things - in fact, I usually drive people nuts by insisting there is a way to do things ... I just have to find it. The thing is with this build, I am further than I have ever got with a wooden model ship build before and I am determined that I CAN finish this one. I am relegated to knowing it won't be a museum piece but it will end up a testament to my bull headedness  however it ends up looking. I will, of course, try my best at all things but I lack skills at the moment so I can only do the best I can. Towards that end I appreciate all the suggestions and ideas you guys have given me. One thing I can insure ... this model of the Syren will NOT be authentic as per her launching date. Actually probably more authentic of her scuttling day ... but nonetheless how many people do you know who model a ship on her scuttling day? Not many I bet ... but I seem to!🤪

 

Ken

[SparrowHawk7]

Another day, another adventure in decking. Moving ahead with a 4 butt shift pattern. Only a few very tiny inserts necessary - mostly everything is fitting nicely. The thickness is off slightly but I rather expected that - after all it is only 1/32" thick. A bit of sanding will solve that in the end. And there is some glue residue as well but sanding ought to remove that too. I used graphite for the caulking. It is noticeable which is all I ask so I guess it works. I am not thinking to do anything about treenails just now. The planks are 1/8" wide so they will look somewhat busy with tree nails in my estimation however I will wait until all is sanded smooth before making that determination as final. I will also put a molding across the stern ends of the deck planks to hide their slightly uneven ends.

 

 

 

 

I definitely feel my skills are improving. Someone I think mentioned I shouldn't be shy about posting photos that are of mistakes. The way I am looking at this log is that nobody starts out doing much of anything possessing the skills necessary to do it well and I am a novice at this hobby. So I am probably around average getting started - perhaps even higher as I have woodworking background although that is entirely different though the principles are the same I'm finding. So many of the logs I've looked through seem magical in what the author has managed to do and so far above my measly skills that I don't really feel that anything I do is worth seeing. But that is probably true for all novices here. Therefore by me boldly showing and admitting - even pointing out - my mistakes I hopefully give hope to other newbies that what really matters is dedication and allowing yourself to screw things up (sometimes Royally!) But don't give up or stop - keep going and you will eventually succeed at building your kit - warts and all. It probably won't be one of those amazing models but you assembled it and your next one will be better. So if there are other newbies watching this or stumbling on it - take heart. I am improving and you will too. For instance, when cutting out the gun ports I pushed the knife against unsupported wood meaning a strip that just went across the port by itself - no support on top or bottom. This results in fracturing and chunks coming out. I knew that from my table saw and drill press techniques in woodworking but I didn't consider in ship building. In cutting out the aft companionway I cut DOWN towards the side of the opening and got a nice clean edge because the wood fibers were supported. Little things but they eventually add up.

 

Thanks for watching and all your encouragement and ideas.

Ken

Edited November 27, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[Overworked724]

The redo of the deck is paying  dividends, Ken. The difference is night and day. I’m sure the sanding will polish it nicely. 👍🏽

[SparrowHawk7]

Thanks Patrick ... for the most part I'd agree.  But there are still some parts ... and I somehow messed up the pattern when I started on the starboard side. I carefully counted (or so I thought) but the first strake was out of place and, of course, I didn't notice it till it dried and I had several more laid in based on it. Sigh.  Well, that pretty much guarantees I won't try treenails because they'll just point out the error. I am tired of decking and redecking the halls, er, hull, so I am simply going to live with it. However next time (becoming my famous quote in a hurry) I think I will take the advice someone offered to use paper as a template. I can use Autocad to draw it all out and get the butts in the correct place, then glue that to the false deck and the deck to the paper. Presto ... no troubles. Plus I can do nibbing that way as well. More lessons learned. Here I was thinking I could duplicate a pattern by what was already laid when I realized I have some serious trouble with my own butt and getting it in the right place at the right time. Sigh.

 

 

 

 

 

Still need to cut out the aft companionway but I have to wait for the planks to dry first. I did some sanding on the port side but still have a lot to go. Some pieces didn't fit too well but I didn't discover that until they were glued in and the glue dried. They had fitted well enough before gluing but they absorbed the glue and did a bit of swelling which left them somewhat proud of the surrounding deck. They will need some careful sanding to even up but even at 1/32" thick I believe they have enough stock that I can sand them down. If not they are reasonably small to remove and I bought tons of extra planking.

 

Probably another couple days on this. The bursitis in my shoulder gets to acting up after an hour making work rather uncomfortable. Trust me ... age ain't all it's cracked up to be. All my life people have told me it will be better when you're older. Perhaps some things but certainly not physical stuff.

😝

 

Thanks for watching and all your help.

 

Ken

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[allanyed]

At 1:64, if wooden treenails were used on Syren, they would be about 0.012"- 0.16" diameter for the deck planks.  Making trennals at 0.16 is a challenge even with a Byrnes drawplate and an appropriate wood such as some species of bamboo.   More models are wrecked by having treenails that are oversized both on the hull and the deck  so I believe your decision to leave them out is a good one.    

Allan

[SparrowHawk7]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Allan.  You are spot on. When used properly modelling treenails looks very nice but 1/64 is just too small - especially with thinner (1/8" wide) deck planks.

 

Ken

Edited November 29, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[SparrowHawk7]

Hey guys ... I'm back with lots of photos and to report that the deck has been laid. I got better as I went along. Decks are pretty easy to lay actually ... I just cut a lot of lengths of decking 5" long. Put them face to face and coated one long side with graphite and one end. I used a solid graphite pencil (remember I have all sorts of graphite from my days as an artist) which worked quite well. I ended up using 2B as softer seemed too sloppy looking although I will have to look at this more closely now after sanding and see what I think about the looks of my "caulk". What I mean about getting better though was filling in the midships area as the deck is slightly wider there and obviously curves outward slightly. As I did not vary the width of the planks as some do, they ended up coming to points which was slightly more tricky. I did the port side first and lastly the starboard which is somewhat better. That makes me feel that I am on the right track as the entire idea of this exercise in building the model is to build some skills. Here is how it looked after I did a very little sanding by hand ln the port side.

 

 

 

 

Also, keen eyed observers will notice that my deck plan varies from place to place between a 4 butt shift and a 3 butt shift. Keep in mind that when cutting out gun ports I somehow got lost after 8 on each side so counting is not my biggest strength. Well, I discovered that counting to 4 was also difficult and sometimes I would only get to 3 and start a new strake. Oh well. I doubt anyone will notice as the model doesn't warrant that kind of examination so I didn't worry about it too much. Next time, as I said earlier, I will plot each plank out on my computer using autocad, print the plan and then glue that to the false deck and lay things on top of that. That will alleviate my responsibility to count. Whew!

 

After finishing the deck and giving it a couple hours to dry, I started doing the sanding using 80 grit sandpaper so I could get results in a reasonable time.

 

 

 

 

 

I think I will go over it again with something like 220 to smooth it further without having to worry about going through the planks - remember they are only 1/32" thick. Some of what looks like gaps is actually graphite, of course, and that can't necessarily be "fixed". I also need to run a margin plank along the stern to cover the ends down there. The companionway will look crisp once I frame it on the deck although I may go over the corners a little more with the knife.

 

I don't think the gaps along the margin plank will show much in the end as there will be belaying rails, gun carriages and lots of rigging to cover it from close examination so I am probably OK.

 

Then I have to plug a tool that is becoming my favorite tool for the deck.

 

 

That thing allows me to get close to edges without damaging other areas. I find I am having a hard time holding things now due to age (primarily why I stopped drawing as a pencil got hard to hold) so even a sanding block can be difficult. This tool is beefy enough to hold and it doesn't vibrate my hand the way smaller ones do thereby putting my hand to sleep. To my mind, it did a great job. Go ahead ... try sanding with your hand asleep. 😲😄

 

Thanks for watching,

Ken

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[SparrowHawk7]

A little bit more. I finished sanding the deck with 220 which helped a bit and I installed what amounts to a margin board along the stern to cover the uneven deck lengths. There is a small hole at the port corner but that can probably be covered with some hanks or coils or something. It is rather small to get a patch to look correct and it's in an obscure corner so I think I can manage something. The decking is actually very level as opposed to how it looks .. that is the graphite making it appear uneven. I've no idea how to alleviate that.

 

 

Then I attached the stern post and sanded the deadwood and keel to fit. The sloppy paint will be covered by coppering which it seems is next.

 

 

I finally also adjusted the ends of a molding strip along the stern. Unfortunately I painted that area incorrectly so that i will have to change the scheme ... again. Being that the name is in PE brass it needs to go over black so I will have to paint the stern between where it is now and the bare molding strip black. Once I get the rest installed I will decide if that strip ought to be plain or black as well. Apparently it needs a little cleanup too.

 

 

But there she stands.

 

Ken

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by SparrowHawk7

[SparrowHawk7]

I'm just about to give up on the copper bottom. I've tried to get rivet lines on the copper tape using punch wheels as I do not think I am capable of building the jig in the instructions. The rivet lines go everywhere even when trying to use a metal ruler as a straightedge. In the end I tried making about 8 on a strip of tape but found only about 1 in 15 was marginally usable. I spent about 4 hours the other day making strips and ended up with 5. Then I went to start putting them on today and none would stick to the wood in the least. They immediately curled up and literally fell off.l Even after burnishing or at least trying to. The only thing I can think of to try before giving up is to get a coat or two of sanding sealer on the hull and see if that gives the adhesive something to cling to. Other than that I may have to buy some other wood and do a second layer of planking and hope for the best. I am feeling entirely insufficient for this hobby after spending a bit of time researching other builds for ideas.

 

Ken

[VTHokiEE]

10 minutes ago, SparrowHawk7 said:

I am feeling entirely insufficient for this hobby after spending a bit of time researching other builds for ideas.

Have you given any consideration to painting the coppered area white? You’re doing well so far; keep up the good work!

[Overworked724]

Hi Ken!  
 

I know there are a lot of builds out there…some are rough, others are like works from pros. Don’t compare yourself. It’s your ship, and and deviating from the plans is fun!  A couple options: 1) Go without rivets at all (who is really going to check?) 2) Paint the hull white below the waterline instead of coppering.

 

For the foil not sticking, a lot of folks recommended sanding sealer or primer. It cleans up the wood surface and gives the foil something to stick to. 
 

When your build gets you stressed, do a side project to reset your head and allow your creative juices to give you ideas. 
 

It’s a marathon!!  (A really long one!)

 

Best 

Pat

Edited December 15, 2021 by Overworked724

[SparrowHawk7]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I was just so frustrated! Nothing even close to worked. As a stop gap type of plan I am putting down a couple light layers of sanding sealer on the bare hull. It might help the copper tape to stick but if not, it will be a good base for painting. And I might consider using a pretty wood as a second planking layer instead.

 

As a different question ... I want to add featherboards to my byrnes table saw arsenal ... he hasn't answered my emails for over a month so I guess he won't. I need miter slot runners and would like aluminum or plastic as they can take tightening in the slot rather well.  Does anyone know where they might be available?

 

Thanks guys ... really.

Ken

[VTHokiEE]

I unfortunately don’t know but try sending him a PM on here directly @jimbyr he’s typically been responsive on here.

[Overworked724]

I live on my Byrne’s saw. 🌲😎

[SparrowHawk7]

FINALLY ... some success to report. I put 2 coats of sanding sealer on the hull - sanded the first coat with a bit of 320 but left the second one as is then I tried a small length of copper without any rivet markings just to see if it would stick. IT DID!! So I began to make sections with vertical markings but left the horizontal out as they tended to wander around. It was fairly simple to get down 3 rows from stern to stem on the port side along the keel. I still haven't marked the waterline but I will do that soon to be sure I have the black painted far enough down. It is a bit difficult to get the tape to lay flat in a line but it is easily covered somewhat in similar fashion to gold leaf. In any case, I think things are going to be OK. Thanks for your support - it is sometimes difficult to pull yourself out of the doldrums when everything seems to be working against you. Doing these logs has pros and cons. This is one of the pros - if building this alone I would have been more prone to giving up altogether although that would probably have lasted only a couple weeks before I got angry with myself and gave it another try. But reading suggestions and encouragement was a great help. There seems to be some marginal hope that y'all are going to raise a potentially competent model shipwright here ... 😀

 

Ken

[SparrowHawk7]

Finally some photos!

 

 

Here's my rivet jig - much simplified from the instructions but adequate for a newbie. I am only doing vertical rivets. I tried laying a metal straightedge along the wood pieces to do horizontal but the pounce wheel simply would not follow the straightedge well enough so the rivets went every which way. No good ... so for this build, I gave up on horizontal rivets and will be satisfied with vertical.

 

 

 

 

 

It is not easy getting the strips to lie flat and in line with one another. The tape backing is a bit too tough and the copper rather thin but a bit of practice and I'm doing OK I think. The time has come to mark the waterline I think so that is probably next. Then I can lay plates from that point down. The only downfall to that is the row where they meet - the down rows will be on top of the lower rows but the tape is so thin that such a thing ought to be somewhat easy to hide. More importantly will be a straight top to the copper. Anyway, just the one side so far but I am thinking it all may turn out acceptably as long as the viewer doesn't look too closely. At least there are SOME rivets showing. There are some wrinkles but this is my first try at this and I'm doing my best ... with practice I'll get better.

 

Thanks for watching ...

Ken

[SparrowHawk7]

A little bit more. I moved over to the starboard side and began to lay lines of tiles. Not as high as the port side yet but I did a few anyway. The biggest problem I am having is getting the lines straight. I do not exactly want to put the tiles on individually as I think that leads to more possibilities of errors but I have been working with perhaps 2" or so of tape so 3-4 tiles and trying to apply them in that way. Unfortunately the lines have a tendency to run off in the wrong direction and compensating leaves a wrinkle and a noticeable crease in the line. How do you guys do it? Nothing I try works very well. There must be some trick i am not grasping because I see some builds that you could calibrate a micrometer to. This is happening mostly around the bow.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking.

Ken

 

 

[Overworked724]

I plan to do individual tiles. Most builds approach the coppering this way. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Overworked724

[SparrowHawk7]

It wasn't a lot of fun but I finished coppering the starbd side of the hull. I still have a couple hours to do on the port side but I'll get there. I also need to finish up the false keel here and there but that is no problem. And a bit of smoothing. Then on to the rudder I suppose.

 

I ended up eyeballing the water line. The waterline markers available SUCK - at least what I found. The pencil rotates and flops around and it just feels super cheap. It was quite useless so I simply followed a strake and hoped for the best. It's close anyway.

 

 

 

 

Boy am I glad I didn't develop any extra skills or the entire ship would look odd. Always keep in mind I am modeling the Syren as she looked around the time of her scuttling. 🙄

 

Thanks for watching. Ken