HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Ian is the term “kit bashing” a negative thing like complaining about or bashing a model or a positive meaning one feels the confidence to modify the model and make perceived improvements?  I am definitely not bashing the Victory model in a negative way, but I sure am enjoying learning ways to use my own artistic expression which has been greatly enhanced by you guys encouragement and recommendations. I used to be an avid fiction reader finishing a new book every two to three weeks. Since I started model ship building and finding this incredible MSW site I am consumed with the enjoyment of both. Have probably only read 3 books this year so far. I often wonder if I am alone in my level of this new passion? You guys are incredible. And I am so grateful!

 

As far as my model is going , I have finished hand the planks in my deck sections and almost all the cannon ports. 

[Bill97]

Hand painting the planks. Left the word painting out of my previous post. 😊

[Ian_Grant]

Oh no, nothing negative. "Kit bashing" is slang for making modifications with non-kit materials to enhance the final product. Could be as little as using different cannons, or as much as Marc's extreme bash on the "Soleil Royale"  🙂

 

Marc hope the term "bash" alluding to your SR does not offend you!!!!!!  It is an inadequate word to describe the incredible work you have done in widening the hull, adding all the frieze details, and completely rebuilding the stern!

Edited June 24, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Jeff T]

3 hours ago, Bill97 said:

a positive meaning one feels the confidence to modify the model and make perceived improvements?  

That nails it, Bill!  You go beyond the “build by the numbers” of the kit and you truly make it yours.

[Hubac's Historian]

I do not take the least bit of offense, Ian.  I have great affection for the Heller kits, as they are, but that certainly doesn’t mean they can’t be improved.

 

In my estimation, the efforts of people like Michel Saunier - who refused to listen to the orthodoxy that an authentic rendition of Soleil Royal was even possible - opened the door for people like me to continue digging.  Likewise, Daniel’s work on the Victory has legitimized plastic ship modeling as something much more than an enjoyable pass-time for teenagers and retirees. Accomplished modelers from all over the world now view his work through the same prism of appreciation and respect as they do any of the best arsenal-style models.

 

I don’t think of it as “bashing” the kit in a negative way.  I think of it as bashing down orthodoxy and conventional thinking about a subject; that any given kit represents the sum-total of all there is to know about the ship.

 

Kit-bashing on forums like MSW only serves to bolster the hobby, as others begin to see that various techniques for modification and augmentation aren’t merely possible, but quite achievable, with only a little extra effort. 

 

Your deck weathering looks really good, Bill!

Edited June 24, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Great conversation on the merits of my new phrase “kit bashing”. Now that I have learned and understand it is OK to operate outside the box, literally, it gives a since of freedom to experiment as long as I maintain a measure of authenticity. Sometimes I wish I could go back and rebuild my Revell 1/96 USS Constitution. I built it strictly to the letter of the instructions. It is a beautiful model but I wonder how much better it could have been. I don’t dare go into the MSW vault to read build logs for it. I am sure I will see so many things I will be disappointed I did not do. 
As far as my Victory goes I am now in a bit of a hold pattern on painting the hull and stern. I have communicated with Daniel to purchase several of his etched plates and a couple resin parts. Two of which are the one plate, I think it is #2, that has the little decorative pieces that go above the cannon ports and the new resin  balusters for the stern. Will need to get them before I can proceed much with painting. Since that is the case I believe I am going to set the hull aside and dig into the million parts that make up the cannons!  Maybe work on the life board as well. 

[Hubac's Historian]

That sounds like a solid plan, Bill.  When I become overwhelmed with one aspect of the project, I have always found that there are any number of smaller assemblies I can work on, until I get my motivation back for the big stuff.

[Bill97]

Woo Hoo!  Desired plates and new resin pieces ordered from Daniel. He tells me 2-3 weeks possibly. Thanks Daniel. In the meantime guys so I can get in extra supplies what adhesive do I need to attach Daniel’s brass etched pieces to the plastic. I am thinking maybe a slow set superglue?

[Ian_Grant]

Bill,  I use gel CA like this:

 

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/krazy-glue-krazy-glue-gel-2ml/1000421795

 

Great news about your new parts!  Look forward to seeing you progress.😃

Edited June 25, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Old Collingwood]

I love the detail with the simulated planks and the wash in between the planks  - really nice job.

 

OC.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. I was thinking of a crazy glue type product. I see a number of people refer to an adhesive they use as CA. Curious what does that mean?

 

Thanks for the nice words Old Collingwood. 

[Bill97]

Ian I meant to ask you if that Krazy Glue is slow or quick drying. I would think I would want a glue that gives me a few seconds to make sure the part is positioned correctly. Right?

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bill;   CA means "Cyano Acrylate" glue.  Yes, it gives you a few seconds before grabbing.  There is regular and gel. Regular is great to lock a knot in rigging thread as it is so watery it gets absorbed; on the other hand even a tiny drop can seep along the thread and be noticeable due to darkening. Gel is better at staying put.

 

There are people who will tell you that CA in rigging will crack up. Maybe they're right and a drop of shellac is best.  I don't know....

 

And by the way:  GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ole...ole....Ole.....Ole.....!!!!!!

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Interesting. See all this new stuff I am learning. Is the CA what you use for your plastic parts as well?  I have always used regular Testor plastic model cement in a tube or Tamiya plastic cement in a bottle with a brush. For my rigging knots I use regular school white glue diluted with water. I like it because if I need to loosen a knot after the fact I can put some water on it with a paint brush and the glue will dissolve. It does darken the lighter threads a bit at the knot. Of course that does not matter with dark brown or black thread. 
 

Congratulations on them Canadiens!  Great job!  Are your arenas back to full capacity yet?  Here in Louisville we have finally gotten back to full capacity. 

[Hubac's Historian]

For my part, I use CA glues when I am bonding dissimilar materials; wood to plastic, metal to wood, or even metal to metal, when I need a good mechanical bond.

 

When it’s plastic to plastic, I always use Testors liquid cement with the needle applicator.  I like this stuff because it is not too thin that it has no body, but the viscosity is not so much that it won’t still wick into a joint.  It melts the plastic pretty efficiently and always ensures a really good welded bond, as long as your parts mate nicely.

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc.  We are the same on the plastic to plastic with Testors. Since the use of Daniel’s etched parts will be my first attempt at bonding dissimilar materials the CA glues will be a nice addition. Again thanks to you and Ian for your sharing your wealth of knowledge. 

[Bill97]

Woo Hoo!  Looked what the friendly delivery truck just dropped at my door. It is like Christmas around here! 😀

[Ian_Grant]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:28 AM, Bill97 said:

Congratulations on them Canadiens!  Great job!  Are your arenas back to full capacity yet?  Here in Louisville we have finally gotten back to full capacity. 

Yes they have been inspired, and Carey is playing at his top level. Fun to watch!.....(later edit).....except for the perennial NHL playoff terrible refereeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lord no, as far as I know no one can go into a rink yet. Usually I go lunchtime skating in the fall but this year I had to wait until the canal was open to go skating and unfortunately this was a very short season for the outdoor ice. The minor hockey leagues didn't run as far as I know, though at one stage they were having intra-team scrimmages. I'm glad my kids got to experience minor hockey play until university, before the world came crashing down.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Ok a little progress today. Finished applying the .100 and .125 Evergreen to frame all the gunports and primed them for future painting. Really like the effect of goby the illusion of the bow being thicker. As I mentioned above, I look at my previous builds with open gunports and wish I could go back in time to redo them. I guess this will show the progress of my building skills. Also finished painting my deck sections. I weathered the deck in darker old aged wood colors. I attempted to add a little extract dark wash in areas that would have had heavier foot traffic. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Port linings look really good - they make a tremendous improvement!

[Bill97]

Small deck painting modification. After my last post I continued to look at my paint job and decided I wanted to highlight the hatches with a little lighter color. Not sure if it is authentic but I like it better. 

[Bill97]

HELP! This is a request for help from any one that has widened the wales as Daniel recommends. I am reading and looking over the photos in the PDF for etched plate 2. Not sure I fully understand what I am to do. Looks like it is on the front of the ship as well as the back. Does it extend higher than the top of the stern?  If so does that look weird. Need some elementary level instructions here! Or if you did not do it, did it cause a problem?

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

I haven’t seen Daniel’s set or the instructions, up close.  Can you please post a pic or two of what you are looking at?

[Old Collingwood]

51 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

HELP! This is a request for help from any one that has widened the wales as Daniel recommends. I am reading and looking over the photos in the PDF for etched plate 2. Not sure I fully understand what I am to do. Looks like it is on the front of the ship as well as the back. Does it extend higher than the top of the stern?  If so does that look weird. Need some elementary level instructions here! Or if you did not do it, did it cause a problem?

 

 

Do you mean this part  -  its for the rigols that go over the gun parts to keep the rain out  -

 

Its plate num 2  from his site.

 

OC.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Old Collingwood

[Bill97]

Marc and Old Collingwood it is from his instructions for plate 2. See if you can enlarge it enough to read. 

[Old Collingwood]

5 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Marc and Old Collingwood it is from his instructions for plate 2. See if you can enlarge it enough to read. 

I see  - so you need to increase the thickness of the upper wale by adding a strip 1mm wide by  0.4mm  thick  all the way from the beak head as far back as where the outer edge of the fram for the window assembly sits, then above that it looks like he has used a strip possibly 0.4 x 0.4mm  again following the same profile but ontop of the wale.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

OC.

[Hubac's Historian]

I’m not, by any means, a Victory expert, but I think what may be confusing, here, is that Daniel’s photo guide illustrates the widening of the wales with Evergreen strip (what is necessary for less complicated seating of the chain plates), but he also shows scratch-built upper bulwark extensions that rise above the gently curved sheer-line; I believe (although, I could very well be wrong), these were modifications that were made to the ship, prior to her engagement at Trafalgar, in 1805.  The restored ship, at Portsmouth, does not display these raised bulwarks.

[Ian_Grant]

O.C. has it nearly right.  Daniel wants you to increase the width of the top wale (runs along the hull below the main deck gun ports), by adding a single 1mmx0.4mm strip along its top edge, and three of the same strips along the bottom edge. He is saying that the wale as molded is narrower than the length of the preventer plates thus they cannot lay flat on the hull.

 

I didn't do that; of course not all his instructions were written and translated back then. I don't recall having any problems, in my ignorance.

 

Marc is correct; the evergreen on the bulwarks is a different "experiment" Daniel has made on this practice hull. The bulwarks were low at Trafalgar, shockingly so when you imagine shot passing over the deck with the foredeck guns crews closed up!  I've seen shots of Victory sitting at Portsmouth with closed in bulwarks but that was in Victorian times, after her seagoing career.

 

Here are the fore chains on my model, attached to the as-molded wale; Bill you can decide if you can get away with it:

Edited June 26, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[dafi]

Thank you sirs for all this ongoing discussion.

 

And you are right. The upper wale is to narrow in the mold so it could/should be enlarged a bit on the bottom and on the top. It also facilitates to fix the preventer chains.

 

As I always try out results of new research there is in the same picture the risen forecastle bulwarks - and also some on the poop deck. I already have several hulls for different purposes floating around, so I sometimes have to combine the tasks. Originally this picture was set for another context in one of the other pages, showing Portsmouth and a possible version of Trafalgar. Sorry if this confused you lot. As the research advances always new hints or even evidences pop up, and I strongly do believe we will never be able to build a "100% accurate" 1805 Victory. So all work on the Vic always will be "state of the research". 

 

All instructions are updated from time to time to represent all the feedback that I get from you guys out there and also the my own new enlightments to assure you some good quality modeling time and best results 🙂

 

All the best, Daniel

 

 

PS @Ian_Grant Wonderful model!

Edited June 26, 2021 by dafi

[Bill97]

Ok thanks gentlemen, especially you Daniel. I did not email you with the question because I thought I bugged you enough with my order! 😊

So the work I need to do is represented by the white lines in the photo? I was so confused. I was thinking I needed to build up the height of the bow. In the picture there appears to be a light cream color stripe on top the hull at the stern end and maybe even at the front. This cream color stripe is what I was thinking I needed to fabricate and attach to the top edge of the hull. I am guessing now that the cream color object is just something in the photo? It even blocks the view of the bottom of the mizzenmast. What is that?