HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Ian_Grant]

Syren makes one:

 

https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/serving-machine.php

 

I looked at this, then made the equivalent out of meccano.

[Bill97]

Ian I was looking back at your build blog. Post #16 you show pictures and comment about how you bashed the lifeboats. I really like what you did with the boats and would like to duplicate some of what you did if you do not care. I wonder if you would mind sharing some tips on how you did it?  

[Bill97]

Spending this nice Sunday afternoon in the recliner with my feet propped up making eyebolts. Don’t have a goal of how many, will just keep making them till get tired. Will have to blacken them before I use them. 

[Ian_Grant]

5 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Ian I was looking back at your build blog. Post #16 you show pictures and comment about how you bashed the lifeboats. I really like what you did with the boats and would like to duplicate some of what you did if you do not care. I wonder if you would mind sharing some tips on how you did it?  

Longridge doesn't go into detail on the boats, other than the very small drawings on the Plan No. 3 fold-out. He does at least quote their respective lengths, and you can see how the pinnace differs from the other work-a-day boats.

 

There was quite some discussion about the Heller boats on the old Pete Coleman Victory web site. They're not actually accurate in terms of length and/or shape. If I recall correctly, the only one with a beamy "launch" shape was about 3/4" too short, or so????  You can measure their lengths and try to decide which is supposed to be which.

 

Some people tried to find third-party sets of accurate sized boats. Some people bashed them; for example cutting the "launch" in half athwartships, reattaching the halves with 3/4" of evergreen strips between them, then suitably modding the gunwales and thwarts. Some people had boats left lying around from other kits, notably the Revell "Constitution". I had some of the Constitution boats myself, plus I remember shortening one of the Heller boats and its gunwales/seats.

 

You can buy very fine evergreen strips for the ribs; at these tiny cross sections they're very pliable. Cut to rough length, apply a smear of CA and press across the boat interior holding in place on the bottom for a few seconds. Then trim the ends below where the thwart will be and CA the ends. I just spaced them by eye as I went along. At the very bows you need two pieces for the ribs as the bend at the keel is too sharp for a single piece to follow. The floorboards are slightly bigger evergreen strips, CA'ed to the ribs. I used some brass etch gratings I had in my parts box, trimmed to fit.

 

In the case of the launch, the windlass and kedge anchor davit are made from evergreen cut and filed to shape.

 

Colours wre another topic of debate. The barge was painted according to the taste of the captain or admiral so it's your choice. I painted the barge and pinnace at my whim, but made all the other "working" boats the same colours, to avoid too much of a "flying circus" look.

 

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. I wondered about the extra ships in your picture since my Heller only came with three. I will most likely just leave the size as is but am going to use Evergreen to make the floor boards. 
 

Finished my first 100 eyebolts. 

[Bill97]

Look what came in the mail today!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That should keep you busy for a while🙂. Are you going the whole hog, replacing all the rigols, doing a side entrance etc?

[Bill97]

I am doing the rigols but I don’t think I will do the side entrance. 

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen, those who have used Daniel’s etched brass sheets (and you as well Daniel). Now that I have my sheets talk me through how to blacken them. Daniel suggest a product from Knick that you just soak the item in overnight. I can’t find that but I can find a product called Brass Black. Left off the brand name since I am not sure if that is OK on MSW. Seems like a similar product. Do you need to rub down pieces with very vine abrasive first, or can they go right from Daniel’s packaging to the liquid?Do you need to blacken those pieces that will be painted later or just leave them as is?

[Ian_Grant]

Bill,  there is at least one Blackening discussion in the forum "Metalwork, Soldering and Metal Fittings".

 

Just browse forums and scroll down 'til you see it.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. I took your advice and scrolled through the mentioned forum. Interesting the product I mentioned is talked about in one of them. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Bill, this is what Daniel probably referred to: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/krick-82001-bruenierungsmittel-50-ml--1221525. whether you can get it in the states I don't know.

[dafi]

Hello Bill!

 

Bahooooooooo and off we go!!!

 

Basically any blackening product will do. I use the cheap one from Krick, not the best but works. Take a small glass bottle and poor enough of the stuff in, leave the parts in over night. Take the parts out and rinse well. Before glueing take care to scratch off the black stuff or the superglue will only hold the black stuff back and not the brass inside …

 

I just blacken the pieces as they are. If ever the parts do not take the blackener in, try a solvent first, if no reaction then try another brand.

 

Smaller parts I leave on the sprue, as they would be difficult to retrieve. Also there are blackners that can be applied with a brush.They usually also work faster. Then one can easily „paint“ the parts on the sprue.Have a search in MSW for the theme. But even blackened I apply a thinny coat of the surrounding black color for that there is the same shade.

 

Bigger parts that can be retrieved easily out off the soup I take off the sprue before blackening.

 

XXXDAn

[Bill97]

Sounds like I got a plan. I am just curious here and will show my ignorance happily. But what is the reason or advantage of blackening a etched part first if I am later going to paint it?  Picture me setting wide eyed at the knee of the great masters absorbing all your great knowledge! 😀

 

Bill (aka Grasshopper)

[Ian_Grant]

I believe blackening gives a better "grip" surface for the paint than shiny brass.

[Bill97]

There you go. That sounds like a perfectly good reason. Thanks Ian. 

[drjeckl]

Bill,  Blackening is a replacement to painting; do one or the other.  If you go for blackening, you do have to prepare the items prior to the blackening step.  Based on my readings of the blackening processes, probably the best prep step is pickling which can be viewed as sterilizing the items; there are others.  Then you blacken the items, which basically dips them in the blackening agent, rinse and repeat until satisfied.  The two popular agents are Liver of Sulfur and Birchwood Casey's Brass Black.

 

I prefer blackening to painting, especially if you have a lot of small items; eyebolts, rings, even cannons. Can't even imagine painting eyebolts.  I have used the Brass Black product; works great.

 

Don't think I have seen blackening as a prep for painting.  Either prep for blackening or prep for painting.  But definitely check out the topics on MSW.  That's what led me to blackening.

[dafi]

I usually do both 🙂

 

The reason is very simple. The painting might leave some microscopic places blanc and once the light shines on, it then might call a lot of unwanted attention. I had to realize this already long times after finishing a project, suddenly with the right (or better wrong) light one sees a nice golden blink.

 

With blackened parts this does not happen. But even with black there are more than 50 shades of black 😉

 

So with overpainting blackened part with a thin touch of paint, the parts will blend in perfectly and no shiny monsters will appear 🙂

 

All the best, Daniel

Edited July 20, 2021 by dafi

[Bill97]

Thanks Daniel. 

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen now that I have Daniel’s sheets I am going to get back into working on the hull. I looked back through my blog to find all the recommended bashing to complete before I begin the much anticipated painting. I am working on adding the Evergreen to widen the wale. Sanding off the molded rigols and adding Daniel’s etched rigols. Plan to move the anchor shoe to the more correct place. Anything I am missing?  Any other recommendations for me to consider?

[dafi]

To be honest, the holes for the gunport lid lanyards appear quite messy on the pictures. Did you drill them with a motor drill? Looks like the molten material enlarged some holes quite a bit.

 

Would you perhaps consider to close them with original Heller sprue, heated up and pulled into right thickness and then stuck in and with plastic glue sealing the old holes? This would give a great base for the new holes as it is then a homogenous replacement with the hull.

 

For the new holes use a pointed scribing iron to mark the exact place first and then drill a hole by hand using a 0,5 mm drill 🙂

If ever later a bigger hole is needed, it is not a problem to enlarge the holes with another drill - also done by hand.

 

If it sound good, just try out on one port first, before takling all the other ones.

 

All the best, DAniel

[dafi]

Forgot to say: Rest is looking great 🙂

 

Do not forget the enlarging of the wales in between the fenders.

 

XXXDAn

Edited July 20, 2021 by dafi

[Bill97]

Yes Daniel you are right about the holes and how I did them. Really did not like them either. Will use your advice to correct the ones that came out messy. I have a lot more of the enlargement of the wales to go. Just showing where I am heading with bashing the hull. Daniel I need to look further into your build, but how did you display the cannon hatch door around the anchor once you repositioned the anchor?  Looks like if open the hatch door will be up against the anchor. 

 

 

[Bill97]

Ian I looked back through my blog to try to find the comment I was confident you made about the order of the deck supports being out of order. Could not find the comment. If it in fact was you, could you advise me the correct order? I know it will be awhile before I need this but I always read ahead. Thanks

[Bill97]

I want to thank all you guys who recommended I pick up the book The Anatomy of Admiral Nelson’s ships. I initially procrastinated because I could only find new copies for over $60.  I eventually found a used copy for a very reasonable price and glad I did!  Even though I am not building a wooden model from scratch I am still enjoying reading the book cover to cover. As a wood worker first for many years I can so appreciate the craftsmanship in the original ships of the era. It is also helping me to more clearly understand the design and physics of my plastic model. Especially for any bashing I want to do. And yes, as you guys have said, throw away the Heller rigging instructions. This book is going to make that so much more understandable with all the drawings. I have a pretty good supply of different size wooden deadeyes to replace the plastic ones. I also need to load up on wooden blocks. For size would you think I can simply measure the plastic ones included in the kit and then purchase wooden the same size?  I guess I will need a variety of single and double blocks?  Again thanks for the book recommendation. 

[Ian_Grant]

Glad to.  The lower deck beams as molded are 239 (not 242), 240 (not 241), 242 (not 240), 241 (not 239), 238, 237 from bow to stern. It becomes obvious the first time you try a dry fit.

 

And while I'm at it, in Section 19 "Fitting the Bowsprit" the bowsprit bees 216/217 have been swapped.

 

As for block sizes, Longridge always quotes them in his description for each rope. Just divide by 100 to get the scale size. I used Syren blocks spanning the range 2mm to 1/4". I have no idea if the supplied plastic blocks are the right sizes; they can't all be because I used 7 or 8 sizes of wood blocks.

 

Same goes for the thread. Calculate scale diameter from the circumferences he quotes. Main stay & preventer work out to 1.6/1.3mm;  same for fore stay & preventer;  fore and main topmast stays/preventers 0.75/0.5mm; fore and main shrouds 1mm; etc, etc

 

Actually I think I still have an excel spreadsheet I created by sifting through Longridge for Victory's scale thread sizes, and scale block sizes and quantities, on my older laptop. I could email to you if interested. PM me with your email coordinates 😉. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Bill, as by now you’ve probably discovered, when you dry fit all the decks one or two of them tend to fall off their perch as some of the beams only just catch their locating lugs in the dry. Especially when you fiddle in the top deck. I guess this is down to slight distortion of the hull after ejection from the moulds. I temporarily extended the lugs and reinforced the beams a bit. I don’t know how to cross-reference on here but it’s shown on my log. Not tidy as it’s all temporary but it helps.

[Hubac's Historian]

Regarding what other modifications can be made - and, certainly, this is entirely a matter of personal preference - you might consider sanding down the Heller wood grain structure.  You don’t have to sand it away completely, necessarily, but the paintwork looks better when it is muted.  This is kind of a big undertaking, which is better done before Daniel’s PE parts are applied.  Anyway, I thought that now would be the time to consider it.

 

I, personally, did not realize this until after I had applied simulated through-bolt heads to all my wales.  I was simply unwilling to sand all that work away, so I compromised and sanded the planking between the wales.  In the end, it isn’t exactly perfect, but worked out just fine because it is the bolt-heads that draw your eye.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[dafi]

And an easy but effective one still: open the lower door to the side galleries*** 🙂

 

XXXDAn

 

***if you dot plan to put someone there seeking privacy 😉

[Kevin-the-lubber]

He can always hold the door closed with his foot, Daniel :-). Or whistle. When you did this, did you recut it to align with the other doors? It has the strangest angle.