Ships name 1700s

[DaveBaxt]

I have noticed that quite a few models in the 1700 have their name across the Transom and wonder if this is accurate for this period or is it just something which modelers like to do . I suppose this gives instant recognition but then again so would mounting a plaque somewhere on the stand or on the glass case itself. What are peoples views on this and what do people prefer. Best regards Dave

[druxey]

British ships' names appeared across their counters officially in 1772, although this may have formally been done for a few years earlier. The practice seems to have been discontinued during the Napoleonic wars.

[Roger Pellett]

 

 

In the real world of the sailing navies, I suspect that experienced seamen could identify most naval vessels at a glance with or without a name on the transom.  The phrase, “the cut of her jib” comes to mind.  In the case of pressed landlubbers, no one cared., and of course many sailors were illiterate.

 

In the merchant navies name and port of registry painted on the stern identifies legal jurisdiction.  Here on the Great Lakes, it’s always amusing to see 1000ft ore carriers that are too long to sail out out of the Lakes with Wilmington (Delaware) painted on the stern as home port.

 

Roger

 

 

[glbarlow]

All my models have a brass plate with the ships name, my name, and the year I built it on the stand. Three also have the name on the stern, I think it’s your model, your call. 

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you to every one with some very good answers . I am still in two minds with this and will make an attempt at making some letters in the hope they would be good enough to mount on the stern counter /transom. Best regards Dave

Edited October 9, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[allanyed]

If accuracy is a concern consider what Druxey posted.   I recall reading that the use of the names was indeed started officially in 1772 by order of the Admiralty and then stopped by the Admiralty about 1782 although it may have continued unofficially.   If you are referring to your build of Endeavour, as she was not decommissioned until 1774, she may have had her name painted on her transom for at least the last few years of her life.    If you do go with the name on the transom, note that these were painted on, they did not use carved letters or name plates.  

Enjoy the quest!!

Allan

[Blue Ensign]

The order for ships to have names on their sterns was issued in 1771.

The names were to be painted on the second counter in letters of 1 foot high and be enclosed in a compartment.

Oldies will remember that Victory had her name in a cartouche on the stern for many years.

 

In 1772 the order was amended, letters were now to be painted without a compartment in letters as large as the counter would permit. (Victory now has that format)

 

In 1778 Admiral Keppel had the names rubbed out on his fleet, but that only applied to one campaign during that year.

 

The large letters continued until after Trafalgar, but according to LG Carr-Laughton, in the closing years of the war apparently the name was painted small in a little compartment; and not long after the peace was entirely omitted.

 

Museum ships of the post Napoleonic era don’t always adhere to this arrangement.

The following ships all have their names on the stern; Trincomalee 1817, Unicorn 1824, Warrior 1860, Gannet 1878.

 

In relation to ships of the 1770's I would certainly include the name on the counter.

 

B.E.

 

[allanyed]

B.E.  you have the wording I remember seeing (was not sure about the dates).   I cannot remember where I saw this to start with, can you share the source?  MANY THANKS for your post.

Allan

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Allan,

 

I got the information from the the Book Old ship figure-heads & sterns by L.G. Carr-Laughton.

 

He was a founder member of the Society  for Nautical Research, and editor of the Mariner's Mirror.

 

His book is a hefty tome and well worth having.

My copy is a  Conway Maritime Press Limited edition published in 1991, altho' the original was published in 1925.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

 

 

 

[druxey]

B. E.: I know that the French usually showed the ship's name in a compartment on the counter, but was not aware of this being done by the British in the early 19th century. Victory's name was certainly seen this way in early 1900's photographs (below), and persisted until changed to something more appropriate recently.

 

[allanyed]

Thanks again B.E.  I found the  date I had mentioned in Anderson's Navy Board Ship Models.    I found one photo of a contemporary model 1741 (HMS Royal Oak) with the stern name and another circa 1740, HMS Barfleur which predate the Admiralty order by quite a few years although there appears to be a lot of questions regarding the accuracy of the Barfleur model according to Anderson.  Don't know if these were painted during a model renovation between when they were built and now though. 

 

I looked at stern photos of contemporary models after 1782 at Preble Hall and could not find any with a name on the stern.  This is a very small sampling so may not hold much validity.   Another good source to check may be the Kriegstein collection of models. Perhaps members here with the books of that  collection can check the photos and shed some additional light based on those  models as well.

 

Allan

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by allanyed

[davyboy]

Good afternoon Allan,I have the 2nd revised edition of the Kriegstein book. Just been through it cover to cover none of the shipmodels in it have a name either painted or carved.

 

Dave.

[Mark P]

Good Evening All;

 

As Druxey says above, the Navy Board ordered that the ships of the Royal Navy should display names on their upper counters. This practice was discontinued not long after, as it was felt that letting an enemy know what ships he was facing might be disadvantageous. 

 

Below is a photo of the stern of the Ajax, a 74 launched in 1767 and sold out of the service in 1785. She took part in several notable battles, and the model could commemorate her building, or one of these.

 

The well-known model of the Bellona, also in the NMM's collections, has its name in similar manner on the upper counter. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P