Size of Rope and Serving for Stropping blocks

[Peter6172]

Team, I am a beginner and I have searched this forum but cannot see any topic/advice on how to size the rope and serving for stropped blocks where the strops are served; in my case working on cannon second reinforcement tackle.

 

I am working in 1/65 scale on the new Artenasia ENDEAVOUR using 3mm (7.5in Full scale equivalent) blocks.  I am experimenting with various products and sizes of rope and serving to see if I can get something that approaches scale.  Theoretically the blocks should probably be 2mm (5in full scale) but that's seems just a little too small by my eye.  

My latest attempt is using Guttermann 2776 thread for the rope and the serving (smaller stropped single block in the attached image). The hook is 0.5mm wire but I think its too big (as are the rings and the ringbolts) so I'm waiting for some 0.3mm wire.

 

I'm not particularly happy with the Guttermann thread and was wondering what other more advanced/skilled modeller use to for rope and serving on 3mm blocks.

 

The cannon is not finished and will be shipped and stained rather than painted.  The primary reinforcement is Ropes of Scale o.6mm rope with 0.15mm Amarti thread for seizing.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Peter6172
update detail

[allanyed]

Hi Peter

What size guns are you working with?  There is a chart of breeching line sizes from 1723 to 1765 on page 385 of Volume 2 of Caruana's The History of English Ordnance.  The circumference varied over the years, but the closest to Endeavour is for 1765 and beyond.  Caruana gives the following which he got from the Public Record Office:

32 pounder 7" 

18 pounder 5.5"

9 pounder 4.5"

 

From the Mariner's Mirror volume 18

4 pounder 3.5"

 

From Lavery's Arming and Fitting page 141 for the gun tackle, the ropes were 3" for 24 pounders and above and 2" for guns smaller than 24 pounders.  The text shows these to be diameters, but I believe this is a mistake as that would make the running tackle larger than the breech rope!!  He does give similar CIRCUMFERENCES for the breechings to Caruana's figures.

 

Allan

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by allanyed

[Gregory]

With regard to serving block strops, I would suggest it's a matter of getting it to look right rather than going with convention.

At 1:65 scale you face some challenges.

 

Some great examples of very detailed rigging, although at 1:48, is by Johann in his La Creole build.

 

I will point to some of his stropping work, but the rest of his build has a lot of rigging detail.

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

16 hours ago, Peter6172 said:

Team, I am a beginner and I have searched this forum but cannot see any topic/advice on how to size the rope and serving for stropped blocks where the strops are served; in my case working on cannon second reinforcement tackle.

 

I am working in 1/65 scale on the new Artenasia ENDEAVOUR using 3mm (7.5in Full scale equivalent) blocks.  I am experimenting with various products and sizes of rope and serving to see if I can get something that approaches scale.  Theoretically the blocks should probably be 2mm (5in full scale) but that's seems just a little too small by my eye.  

My latest attempt is using Guttermann 2776 thread for the rope and the serving (smaller stropped single block in the attached image). The hook is 0.5mm wire but I think its too big (as are the rings and the ringbolts) so I'm waiting for some 0.3mm wire.

 

I'm not particularly happy with the Guttermann thread and was wondering what other more advanced/skilled modeller use to for rope and serving on 3mm blocks.

 

The cannon is not finished and will be shipped and stained rather than painted.  The primary reinforcement is Ropes of Scale o.6mm rope with 0.15mm Amarti thread for seizing.

Some nice looking cannon and the blocks look nice too! Keep up the good work.

[popeye2sea]

I build up my strops on a serving machine.  I pass a few turns of sewing thread between two hooks on the serving machine. The number of turns will determine the thickness of the finished strop. Then I serve between the hooks. The eyes formed at the ends where the turns passed around the hooks will be lashed together so that the strop forms a continuous loop.  If necessary I then serve over the lashed eyes.

 

The thickness I use for a particular block is pretty much just what looks good and in proportion to my eye.

 

You can use variations on this method to make any variety of strop needed, for example long and short eye, eye and tail, etc.

 

Regards,

[Peter6172]

According to Parkin ENDEAVOUR had 6 x 4 pounders making the breeching line around 1" diameter (scale 1/64 = 0.44mm).   So my use of 0.6mm thread might be slightly large.  Have continued working in my served ropes stropped blocks for the cannon getting them close to scale.

 

I have secured the tackle between 0.7mm nails

Edited March 16, 2022 by Peter6172

[allanyed]

Just a little side note Peter.  Only 32 pounders and larger used a single and double block.  For both running out and training tackle, all guns smaller than 32 pounders used two single blocks. (Caruana  The History of English Sea Ordnance Volume 2 page 386)  Some kit instructions mistakenly call for a single and double and sometimes even two double which was never the case for even 32 pounders.

Allan

[Peter6172]

11 hours ago, allanyed said:

Just a little side note Peter.  Only 32 pounders and larger used a single and double block.  For both running out and training tackle, all guns smaller than 32 pounders used two single blocks. (Caruana  The History of English Sea Ordnance Volume 2 page 386)  Some kit instructions mistakenly call for a single and double and sometimes even two double which was never the case for even 32 pounders.

Allan

thanks Allan.  I am going by the Marquardt drawings which show single/double combination used on the ENDEAVOUR.   Two single blocks makes sense as there are less forces involved.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Peter6172
corrected factual error

[Gregory]

FWIW, Lavery in " Arming and Fitting etc.. " describes the SB/DB, with no mention of SB/SB..

[allanyed]

I think this one of those things where only a Wabac machine or time machine will allow us to find out the facts.   I find Caruana to have done far more research than anyone regarding British ordnance, but that is not to say there are no mistakes in his volumes.   

 

Cheers

Allan

 

[Peter6172]

Still experimenting, I have served Ropes of Scale 0.25mm with Aurifil 80wt Sandstone 2 ply cotton.  This is the DB on its own in the image.  Not sure if this might be just about right and if I go for 0.3mm wire and 2mm blocks I might be scale sized for 1/64....?

[Peter6172]

Might have gone a little overboard with this now.  Received some 0.2mm NS wire today so I tried new hooks.  The first two were with my modified circle pliers.  The third was after I modified those circles pliers a little more.  I'm not going to bother putting the digital verniers on them.....  I'm not even sure I have thread that would pass through the small one...