US Brig Syren by rtropp - Model Shipways - 1:64

[augie]

Two questions Richard.  Did you use any pre-stain before staining?  Did you dilute the minwax Golden Oak at all with Natural stain?

[Pygothian]

Are you not going to copper hull it ?

 

I'm still.yet to decide if I'm going to paint and copper, or leave all natural, change the woods and use some stains.

 

Your build is looking great

 

Cheers

Rowan

[rtropp]

Augie,

No and no, thought about it than skipped right to staining... lesson learned.  I have obtained some minwax prestain to use for the rework. I also wonder about the value of sanding sealer.  I had not considered diluting with natural.  The color of the finish on the side that is "not too bad" looked ok. What do you think? The color in the photo is pretty accurate on my PC.

 

Rowen,

I equivocated between all wood and paint and copper.  I was going to upgrade the wood but than thought that since this is my first model, that would be adding to the expense of what is basically a learning exercise. I would hate to have bought expensive wood, in addition to having paid for the kit itself, and then chew them up as I learn. So, I decided to build this kit as is, with the parts that came with it.  As I improve my skills I plan to build the Syren again, this time as a scratch build. That's where it will be all wood finish with upgraded materials and parts.  

 

Richard T.

[augie]

Glad you got the pre-stain.  On basswood, I always use it.  Helps keep out blotchiness.

 

On the color, the only reason I asked is that Chuck recommends diluting the golden oak down to about 20-40% with the natural stain.  Again, on basswood that keeps the color more even.  I think you'll find that 20-40% is what most folks have used.

[rtropp]

Just got back with the natural stain.

Just to make sure, I would use 20-40% Golden Oak and then 80 to 60% natural. There would be more natural than golden oak.

RT

[augie]

Yup, mostly natural.  I've used everything from 10-50%, depending on what I'm looking for.  Play with it!  I think you'll be happy.

[Larry Van Es]

It's easy to go darker, but really hard to go lighter.

[rtropp]

OK, re-staining results are in.

 

The following pictures are just with the pre-stain

 

 

The next three are after staining with 20% golden oak and 80% natural

 

 

 

It does look a lot better than the first time around. The treenails are a not sharp circles and over all it looks a little more worn than if I had not stripped it and re stained. Overall is seems to have more of a worn... or aged look.  I am not sure if I like it but at this point I think I want to move on.

 

I was wondering, on builds where other woods, cherry, walnut, etc are used, are the hulls still stained or are they just given a finish coat?

 

Richard T

 

[augie]

It's really up to the builder.  Wes (Cookster) is doing his Constitution deck in boxwood using cherry stain and it looks nice.  There are virtually endless combinations you can try depending on the wood.

 

Keep in mind it's always best to test off the model to develop the finishing sequence you want.

[Charley54]

OK Richard I think Im liking it. Looks good. So, off to home depot I go  to get pre- stain and natural stain. Thanks for posting all of this. It is going to save me some work.

[rtropp]

I have seen recommendations to put on a coat of poly once the stain is dry.  Any thoughts on that?

 

Charlie, glad to help. I am learning that when all is said and done it is just wood and almost anything can be fixed.  Of course it is a lot easier to get it right the first time   Augie's point about testing first is right on target. I actually had started testing awhile back but, after finally getting the planking done, just jumped in. Sometimes I just need to take a deep breath and walk away for awhile.

 

Richard T

[augie]

To me, poly is a good idea.  Make sure you use low sheen poly.  You don't want any shine on your ship.  If it does come up too shiny for your taste even with the low sheen, there are products like Dullcoat which you can apply after the poly an it will flatten right out.  I use a brush on dull coat (Testors) but I've read that a lot of folks use a spray on dullcoat.

 

Guess what ----- test it first

[Larry Van Es]

Wait till you're all done is what I would recommend. While working on the sweeps covers, port lids, etc., you can and probably will scratch the planks at some time. It's a lot easier to sand and touch up without the wipe on poly. I must have sanded and touched up a half  dozen times. Once was a major gouge that required a lot of sanding over a wide area to smooth it out. When I was all finished I wiped on the poly over everything hinges and all.

[rtropp]

Larry,

Good Point

 

Richard T

[rtropp]

Now that I think about, do you also use the poly over the painted portions of the build?

 

I am experimenting with different black paint.  I have the Model Shipways hull black and am testing out Chuck Ps instructions for painting.

 

I also have an airbrush and am comparing the results it yields against painting by brush.

 

Richard T

Edited November 15, 2013 by rtropp

[augie]

I never tried poly over MS paint.  Usually I'm trying to keep the shine down and wind up with a coat of flat acrylic lacquer over paint.

[Larry Van Es]

I put it over the MS black paint and everything else.

 

t

he only thing that hadn't been installed were the head rails and the quarter badges. The flat poly just seemed to disappear when dry but leaves a hard surface. When looking at it afterward I really couldn't tell that it had been applied other than it flattened out some of the shine from glue residue etc.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Larry Van Es

[rtropp]

Larry,

At what stage did you poly? I've read to do it right away and also to wait until after the work on the hull fixtures.

Richard T

[Larry Van Es]

Like I said I applied it after everything was done with the exception of perhaps the quarter badges and head rails. I'm not even sure about those. It's not like I intended to do it like that. I just didn't know any better. After I heard about wipe-on poly, I thought that I would just do the deck. That worked so nice that I did the insides of the bulwarks, spilled some on the cap rail, and it just kept going from there. Like I said, when it dried it was unnoticeable but left a hard surface. If I had it to do over, I would do it just like that.

[rtropp]

Thanks Larry, good to know

Richard T

[rtropp]

Finally, an update to the build.

I have been remiss in working on the build as I became preoccupied with buying and setting up my new mill. (I just love this hobby.)

 

 

 

Anyway,

 

In my last update I had stained the hull.

Next was painting which, since I used an airbrush, I began by masking.

 

 

 

 

The painting did not come out too badly. I still had some leak under the tape so I will have to burnish the edges a little more carefully next time around. I also picked up some Tamiya yellow masking tape to try the next time.

 

Then I went to work on the fashion pieces. This required a number of reworks. So tiny... such big fingers. As I look at the work on the fashion pieces it looks crude but it should be covered up by a second layer so I will hold off judgment for now. Also, there will be a little... well maybe a lot, of paint touch up around the work area.

By the way, Larry, you were right about holding off on protective finish for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next will be the cap rail

 

Richard

Edited December 10, 2013 by rtropp

[Larry Van Es]

A little late for this one, but next time you might consider pre-painting the whales, fashion pieces, cap rail, etc. and other black pieces of wood prior to gluing into place with black India ink. You can reapply ink to areas that you sand easily and then you don't need to worry about bleed off etc. Black India ink allows the grain of the wood to show thru and it almost looks like you used ebony.

[rtropp]

Hi Larry,

painting ahead of time for some parts is easier. I figured that for the hull, I would have to paint across some of the planking at the water line so would need to be done after the fact anyway. Pre-painting the sheer strake would have been easier. I have pre painted the cap rail and will do that with the second layer of the fashion pieces.

 

Boy did that cap rail take forever to bend without breaking the wood. I must have gone through 6 feet of wood strip before I came close. I will show that in the next post when I finish the second layer of fashion pieces.

 

Why are those called fashion pieces anyway?

 

Also was wondering if anyone knew full size ship's transom and second transom would have been like the model or if the original ship they would have been planked or some other construct? I am referring to the outboard side of the upper stern (counter?)

 

Good night all

Richard

Edited December 11, 2013 by rtropp

[WackoWolf]

I like the mill. Which company and model is that one? Keep the pictures coming.

[rtropp]

Wacko,

there is a great thread concerning milling at:

Model Ship World > Ship Modeling Tips, Techniques and Research > Modeling tools and Workshop Equipment > Milling machine.

The link is http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4200-milling-machine/page-5

 

Lots of good discussion. I also have a number of pictures showing the unpacking of this MicroMark mini mill. They had a great sale recently so I went for it.

 

One of our members started a great thread about using the mill to create jigs for modeling. I plan to add to it as well as its sister thread shown below as I learn more.

 

Model Ship World > Ship Modeling Tips, Techniques and Research > Wooden Tips and Tricks and Making Jigs > Milling work and miniature jig making

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4320-milling-work-and-miniature-jig-making/

 

There has been growing interest in Milling so Nigel and others are hoping to centralize information about milling in these sites so they are easily available.

 

Richard

Edited December 11, 2013 by rtropp

[mtaylor]

Richard,

 

I'm not sure why they are called "fashion pieces" unless it has to do with the way they were made.  A good definition is here:  http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0512.html

[rtropp]

Mark,

what a great research site. I have added it to my research links,

Thanks,

Richard

[rtropp]

Hi all,

In my last post I was ready for the cap rail.

So I started with the cap rail and broke the cap rail, started and broke it... bought more wood, started and, ... you guessed it, broke it. This degree of bending has been tough and I tried a lot of different methods including soaking, then steaming, then soaking and steaming. I just could not get to the bend without something snapping. I tried doing it in two parts but was still unhappy with the bends.

 

So I tried to make a jig that would help. my first attempt below did not work. While the rubber band around the posts helped a little but the plank still broke.

 

What finally helped was using the jig pictured below. I put a fairly wide rubber band around the forming screws. It is hard to see, but I backed the plank to be bent with another plank that I had bent but previously broken. That backing plank seemed to give it the strength to bend without breaking.

 

 

I Painted the cap rail before mounting. Good tip Larry. I use an airbrush so it makes life a lot easier to pre-paint.

 

Then added the fashion pieces and painted those

 

and voila...

 

 

Now onto the section 7.

[augie]

Looks great.  That piece can give you (us) fits !

[rtropp]

hi all,

I finally finished the inward bulwark planking and was starting the cap rail. I cannot find a sheet of 1/16 in the supplied wood to trace and cut out the 3/16 wide cap rail.

Am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

Richard.