Robert E Lee by bcochran - FINISHED - Pyro - 1/163 - PLASTIC - steamboat

[bcochran]

Hello folks,

 

I already have a build log of my Revell Cutty Sark. Last week I had major surgery on my spine.  I am not supposed to bend, lift or twist for a long time. I felt that working on the rigging of my Cutty Sark would involve those movements inadvertently.  The rigging is what I need to do to finish the model.  I will finish that model, I've come too far on it.

 

So I started on this Robert E Lee steam boat Pyro model. With this I just sit at my table and work with my hands and not much movement.

 

My kit is Pyro | No. 237-795 | 1:163  My kit is complete and was issued in 1961.

 

I have a full set of plans that are described at the Online Steamboat Museum as :

 

This is a set of huge drawings of the Robert E. Lee. Nine plates or pages (blueprints) each page 48"x17.5" and completed in 1977. They were used, I believe, by a world-class model builder and supplier of parts from Royal Oak, MI. to either cast parts for the model or it was one in his collection. Rare history of the robert e. lee is included. I've had contact with the illustrator and he admits he never signed his earlier drawings which makes this quite valuable I would believe.

 

I also have "The Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopedium" by Alan L Bates along with other reading on steamboats and the Robt E Lee itself.

 

I have seen other discussions of this model and the Robert E. Lee itself on other sites. A lot of the information there I feel is conjecture. Seems not many people know much about steamboats. 

 

I have been reading about the boat. That is where I get my opinion about the conjecture.  I will try to document the reasons for the detail I am adding using my reference material, so that my information is not conjecture.  I am trying to make an accurate model but as stated elsewhere,  Pyro's model is probably not 100% accurate and I won't change it much.

 

Pyro's model was reissued by Lindberg.  I have built this model before. I learned new things that I didn't know then.

 

Pyro's model does not match the plans much at all. Like My Cutty Sark I do not intend to rework the model in any way. I do add details where I think they could enhance the model.

 

The plans and the Cyclopedium have general information that is useful in building any steamboat model.

 

So let me know if you are interested in another build log of this model.

 

This drawing is similar to the Pyro model.

 

[bcochran]

No replies yet, but here goes.

 

I am going to apply a wood deck sold by Hismodel.  In order to do that and to add some detail, I need to prepare the plastic deck.

 

First, I need to sand off all the raised deck markings.  I have used these wood decks before, and learned that liquid plastic model cement is good for gluing the wood to plastic.  Also, I need to make the depression for the capstan in the wood deck and for the jack staff.  To do the hole for the capstan, I cut out the depression in the plastic deck and using that hole to mark the place for the opening in the wood deck.  I then roughly cut the hole in the wood deck.  I will wait until the deck is glued to sand the hole smooth, then using a piece of styrene sheet under the plastic deck to put back the bottom of the depression. I will do something similar to the jack staff depression.

The holes in the deck and the side have a lot of flash to file and sand off.

 

I plugged the holes meant for the model's rings. They are too big in my opinion and not needed in some places.  I will substitute eyelets I make from 24 gauge dark annealed steel wire.

 

The model's instructions show some lines going from the deck to the side of the boat at the boiler deck level, with something that is supposed to represent a turnbuckle.  (The decks on the boat from bottom up are the main deck, the boiler deck, the hurricane deck, the texas and the pilot house.)  These lines are really the side cross chains. Since the hull and deck are so thin, without support the deck would "hog" meaning the sides would droop down. To prevent this, cross chains were added. They are attached to one side of the deck, across the "V" supports down to the other side of the deck. They act like the hog chains that go from the bow to the stern.

The model has places for 5 of these cross chains. The real boat has one for each of the "V" shaped supports, and I am going to add this detail.  I will use wire and plastic turnbuckles that are model railroad detail parts. They are made by Grant Line.

 

See my pictures for more information.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I needed some kind of display stand. I felt the kit supplied stand was too big for the size of the model.  It looked too out of place. I designed something simple but a little more elegant.

 

I marked off four holes in the hull for the parts. They are an inch off center.  9 1/2 inches apart and about 5 1/2 from the ends of the hull.  The pieces are plastic tubing and three plastic beads.

 

I drilled holes in the hull to fit the tubing.  They are mounted temporally now, but once the hull is painted they can be mounted permanently.

 

The reason for the four pedestal pieces is that I have a display case with a wood base, and I did not want to mount the model to the display case's base and to keep the model the right height for the display case I didn't want to mount it to another piece of wood.   I just sit the model in the display case.

 

It also makes a stable platform to build the boat on.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by bcochran

[Cathead]

I saw your comment in John Ruy's log and decided to check out your log. Looks like an interesting project and you've got a good grounding in steamboat basics. I'll happily follow along and see what you can do with this. Best wishes for continued recovery from your surgery.

[shipman]

No keeping a good fella down is there?

Whatever floats your boat with this one, I admire your tenacity.

It's so easy to get absorbed in what you're doing and in a moments lack of concentration something finishes up on the floor and without thinking you bend to pick it up. In your condition that could do more than ruin your day.

Hope you aren't alone. Please take care.

I'll sit back and see this one through.

[bcochran]

16 hours ago, shipman said:

No keeping a good fella down is there?

Whatever floats your boat with this one, I admire your tenacity.

It's so easy to get absorbed in what you're doing and in a moments lack of concentration something finishes up on the floor and without thinking you bend to pick it up. In your condition that could do more than ruin your day.

Hope you aren't alone. Please take care.

I'll sit back and see this one through.

Hi Shipman,

 

Glad to see you here.  I don't live alone. I have a wife and 4 dogs.  The funny thing is that I can't do my chores like I use to. She has to do everything.  It's not funny, and I love her for caring for me.

Edited July 28, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I have the main deck sanded and ready for the edges to be painted.  I cut out the place where the jack staff goes.  I will have to duplicate that and the capstan hole on the wood deck once it is glued down. Then I will put a bit of sheet plastic under the holes so that they are just depressions, note holes.

 

I painted the holes for the anchor chain and the place where I filled the Pyro ring hole and drilled it out for an eyelet to be added once the wood deck is down. These force me to glue the wood deck to the plastic deck before I glue the deck to the hull.

 

I filled the Pyro holes for the side chains, then marked and drilled the holes for the side chains I want to add.

 

Next I need to paint the edges of the deck white and add the chin holes and capstan and jack staff holes in the wood deck.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I am experimenting with an idea to fasten the deck to the hull. I may screw them together.  The screw takes the place of a clamp to hold the two pieces together. The screws are placed where they won't be seen when the structures are added.

 

So I would add a series of screws along the center of the deck where they don't show. It is important to drill the screw holes in the right place.  My first hole was not correct.

 

They also hold the parts for gluing.  I may remove them when the glue is dry.

[bcochran]

I wanted a waterline scribe along the hull, so after it is panted I have a line reference to add the red decal I am going to use for the red stripe.

 

I took my scribing tool and attached it to a piece of wood the right size and drug it along the hull as I held it down. The hull is curved from bow to stern horizontally. I kind of ignored that as I held the hull down for the scribed line.  My water line may not be exactly correct, but I don't think it will be too noticeable.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I am using Testors spray paint in a rattle can for the finish.  I could use my air brush, but it is more fuss than needed. You need to paint the parts, then let them dry for a day or two.

 

I paint the parts I am about to work on, assembling parts that should be attached together and are the same color first.

 

 

[bcochran]

The deck is ready to have the edges painted white. I want to glue the wood deck to the plastic deck, not to paint, so I am only painting the edges of the plastic deck.

 

I will paint the bottom after I have attached the hull so that I paint them together and so that the glue will bond to the plastic of the deck and hull edges.

Edited July 28, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

The bow of the hull needs a stem piece, not provided on the model.  I am using a piece of evergreen plastic square rod for the stem piece.  I need to file the hull flat, glue on the  stem piece, then shape it as per the plans.

Edited July 28, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

Now a decision needs to be made.  What color should I paint the stanchions around the boilers and the legs of the cabin, and it's walkway.  Also, the staircase, it's railings and the support stanchions around it.

 

I can't look at the Robt, E. Lee because it no longer exists.  I do have pictures though and of boats like it.  In some pictures, the stanchions and staircase look painted white.  In others, they look varnished, like the teak on the Cutty Sark.

 

I think, like the Cutty Sark the boat had changes made during its life.  It could have started out varnished, then later painted white.  I don't know this for a fact, and I haven't read anything in my reference that informs me.

 

I am going with the varnished look.  Mainly because I like it and I have pictures showing it that way. It adds a bit of contrast to the model.

 

I am using the Lindberg set of instructions because my Pyro kit had them missing.  There are subtle differences between the two kits parts.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I wanted to say that if anyone wants to help me out here by offering advice, or just for fun, feel free to do so.  I learned while doing my Cutty Sark log that there are a lot of members here who have very helpful knowledge and skills that are useful to someone building a ship or boat.

 

I welcome your input.  It is the two-way street, the joking and of making new friends, that makes these logs a pleasure.

 

I've had this picture of the Robt. E. Lee and of the Natchez in my stuff for a long time.  I don't know where I got it and I don't see these images online anywhere.   They are from a book by Manly Wade Wellman which I don't have in my library yet.

 

One of the most enjoyable parts of modeling for me, be it a boat or ship or piece of railroad equipment, is studying the history of the subject being modeled.  In doing so, I buy books because I like holding them and looking up ideas that need researching.

 

And when my model is done I like just looking at it if the result is pleasing to me. I like to be accurate, but I am not a rivet counter.  My models are representations, such as paintings are representations, not replicas. As such, I don't "weather" much.  Maybe I am a contrary.  I am willing to accept flaws in a kit and go with them.  I try to put myself in the place of the designer of the kit and wonder why it was done as it was.  These plastic ship models are old, not state of the art in any way.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by bcochran

[Cathead]

There hasn't been much advice needed so far. You're clearly done your basic steamboat research (more than many builders). As for the painting question, overall white was the standard color on these vessels but you're certainly right that some of those photos imply that raw/varnished wood would be acceptable for certain interior details. There was a lot of variation between individual boats. 

 

I was also intrigued by that staircase photo from the JM White, where it appears the camber of the deck is curving down and away from the bottom of the flat staircase in both directions. This amused me because (a) it would've been pretty easy to fill those gaps one way or another for a better appearance on such a grand vessel, and (b) it looks like some simple beginner's modeler mistake, leaving gaps like that. There's a prototype for everything!

[bcochran]

I decided to plug the holes for the jack staff and capstan.  The jack staff position under the plastic deck forms a lug to position the bow of the hull.  I wanted to replace the lug I removed by drilling out the hole.  It will be easy to locate the jack staff when the time comes.  I will use a piece of brass rod to attach it.  I sanded the hole in the wood deck for the capstan. The capstan fits nicely into it. Now I will glue the wood deck down after the plastic deck and hull are glued together and any details added. 

 

I want to put bracing under the deck overhang just for the heck of it. It won't be seen looking down on the boat and most likely won't be accurate, but I want it there.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

To glue the hull to the plastic deck, I am using rubber bands and some wood pieces as clamps.  The deck is warped and even these clamps don't take all the warp out.

 

After the first application of glue dries, I'll have to find a way to clamp and attach the warped sections. I don't have a set of clamps to use here.  I am going to look for some today.  I think I saw something at Hobby Lobby that will work,

 

My plan of screwing the deck down did not take out the warp, so I scrapped that idea.   I will plug the holes I made so that attempt is long forgotten.

 

I will also have to retouch the white edges I painted earlier.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I bought a bunch of N gauge people and animals to add to the boat.  Usually I don't add people, but I wanted to see what they look like on this model.  I see others have done it, and it gives a better idea of the scale of the model.

 

In reading about these steamboats, I learned that the food was excellent with all types of meat dishes. I read that the animals were kept alive until they were needed for dinner.  On one side of the boat there was a kitchen and the place where the meat was prepared, and on the other side was a bakery.  The kitchen smelled awful, and the bakery smelled wonderful.  Passengers hung out at the bakery.

 

The majority of the passengers on these boats were "deck passengers."  The rode and slept where ever they could find space on the lower deck.  At times, they numbered in the hundreds. Also, the roustabouts rode on the main deck.  They did the manual labor such as loading and unloading of freight and fuel.  Freight was kept on the lower deck. 

 

During the cotton harvest, the lower deck was stacked with cotton bails up to the hurricane deck.

 

The Robt. E. Lee was a packet boat used for shipping cotton. The boiler deck did not extend out over the main deck so that the cotton bails could be stacked there.  On other steam boats, the main deck was protected by the boiler deck.

 

The wealthy rode on the boiler deck, with its cabins and main hall.  The boiler was on the main deck not the boiler deck.

 

I want to try and depict this in some way.

Edited August 17, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I am getting the next series of parts together to clean up the flash and make sub assemblies to paint.  I have parts from a Lindberg kit and from the Pyro kit.  The Pyro parts are not numbered like the Lindberg parts are, meaning you have to identify them.  I am not working from Pyro instructions, so maybe I am missing something.

 

The older Pyro plastic seems more opaque and firmer than the Lindberg plastic.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Cathead said:

There hasn't been much advice needed so far. You're clearly done your basic steamboat research (more than many builders). As for the painting question, overall white was the standard color on these vessels but you're certainly right that some of those photos imply that raw/varnished wood would be acceptable for certain interior details. There was a lot of variation between individual boats. 

 

I was also intrigued by that staircase photo from the JM White, where it appears the camber of the deck is curving down and away from the bottom of the flat staircase in both directions. This amused me because (a) it would've been pretty easy to fill those gaps one way or another for a better appearance on such a grand vessel, and (b) it looks like some simple beginner's modeler mistake, leaving gaps like that. There's a prototype for everything!

Hi Cathead,

 

I also thought the same things about the JM White's steps.  I'm wondering how many rats and other varmints lived under there.

[bcochran]

I use superglue to fill sinkholes in the kit parts. Then I sand them smooth.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I wanted to share the history that is printed on the Robt. E. Lee plans that I have.

He mentions the reasons for the inaccuracies of models of the Robt. E. Lee.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

Still trying to attach the hull to the warped deck.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

This is the book I am currently reading about the race between the Robt. E. Lee and the Natchez.

 

"The Great American Steamboat Race" by Benton Rain Patterson. 

 

It is a book loaded with steamboat information, it's not only about the race.  It's  also about all levels of people living, working and operating steamboats on the Mississippi and other rivers during the time of Lee and Natchez.

 

It is available for Kindle at a good price.

 

I just got "Fastest On the River" by Manly Wade Wellman today.

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

With the help of my new clamps, I have a pretty good bond between the hull and deck.  Next I need to add any detail, paint, stripe and add the wood deck parts.

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

The superstructure of the boat had a main deck framing system.   I want to add this though it won't be seen looking down on the model.  I marked where the supports should go.  I am lining them up with the stanchions that the side chains attach to.  I'll have to drill holes for the side chains in the supports.

 

The drawing from head on shows a boat loaded with cotton.  Shipping cotton down the Mississippi to New Orleans was the reason the Robt. E. Lee was built.  The deck and its support system carried a lot of weight.

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I always make some kind of jig to cut uniform parts. I need 32 of the plastic strip this size.

 

Also using a piece of card for a spacer.  For shorter lengths I used a sprew cutter.

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

The boat has its braces. The edges of the braces can be seen, and I think it adds a bit more detail. Then again, it may be distraction.  At this point, I'm not sure. Much of this can't be known. I get a better idea once the model is more complete, and it blends in with everything else. You know something has to be holding that deck side up.

 

I read a discussion on another board, and it was said the Robt. E. Lee's hull was such and such color.

Only period writings of the time or handed down knowledge could tell what color these boat's hulls were in my option.  The photos are black and white, the Robt. E. Lee's hull depth was around 9 1/2 feet, and she drew 6 to 7 feet of water.  Two to three feet of the top of the hull was out of water.   You can't tell the color of the hull in the pictures, except that the part out of water looks white to me.

In the picture here, she has a white hull.

 

The day after the race the Lee entered drydock for repairs. "To  overhaul its engines and boilers and restore its stripped upper works, and have its hull repainted as well." "The Great American Steamboat Race" by Benton Rain Patterson.  Maybe repainted white.

 

I am going with white because I like it and other modelers did so too.

Edited August 17, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I am going with this rust-oleum satin warm caramel for the natural wood colors.  Later the satin will be covered with dull lacquer.

 

I don't intend to "weather" or create  a wood grain effect.  I do that for dioramas and my model railroad equipment, but not on models like this.

 

Another thing I do is to use very few different colors.  You can see this if you check out my Cutty Sark Log.

 

The colors for this boat will be white, tan, black, light blue, and red, and they compliment each other.  I can't see any reason for anything else. Maybe the people and animals will be more colorful if I add them.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I tested out gluing the wood deck to the plastic deck using Testors liquid cement using a scrap of the wood.  It works fine. as soon as the white paint cures, I'll glue the wood deck down.

 

I started building the sub assemblies that go around the boilers. I don't know what the white cabin is yet.  I read where someone called it a luggage room.  The Lee had two guarded luggage rooms so that passengers would not have to keep luggage in their state rooms.

Edited July 31, 2022 by bcochran