HMS Greyhound by Srenner - Corel - 1:100

[Srenner]

First planking is complete, only some random sanding and filling to do. 

 

I ran into a small issue where I ran out of the strip supplied with the kit and had to purchase some from a model shop but of course it was 2mm thick instead of 1.5 so that requires more sanding in that area... and also my measurements were a bit off so I just got a bit frustrated and planked off the final parts as quickly as possible. The issue was the spacing near the bow. 

 

I was pleased with the hard bend of the timber around the foredeck. Soaked for 24 hours then used a can and bent them around and held down with some tape and a g clamp.

 

Put in the stern timber

[Srenner]

Been working on the red ochre or dark red paint colour for the timber on the main deck sides... its a little bit of a issue... I know the traditional colour is red ochre but it's not a great colour and bright red would look better but I also liked just the timber look.

 

I was going for a washed out colour that you could still see some of the wood grain coming through so I diluted the red ochre and dry brushed some red over the top. 

 

Changing tack now and going to try 3d print the walls under the forecastle and the quarterdeck. According to the Goodwin book it should be a straight wall for 1730 style but I like the idea of it being curved and that could be easy to do with the printer. What suits this age of ship more?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

Hi... is there an article on here explaining the best way to use the cotton thread between deck plank method? It just looks stronger line than the pencil edge which I tried hb graphite or should I go for charcoal pencil instead? Any help appreciated thanks

[allanyed]

So far I found no deck plans for a 20 gun 1719 Establishment ship like your Greyhound (20) 1720, but there are deck drawings of 20 gun ships closer to your date versus the 1785 that you posted above in the RMG Collections website that may help you.

One example: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83764

 

Brian Lavery also gives 11 pages of text and drawings regarding layouts in The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War on pages 155-167.

 

As this is a 1719 Establishment ship, I assume you are using the 1719 Establishment list of scantlings starting on page 241 in your Goodwin book as it gives you 18 pages of contemporary dimensions, including those for a 20 gun. 

 

Allan

Edited March 22, 2023 by allanyed

[Old Collingwood]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:56 AM, Srenner said:

Thanks... how did you take the cast of the rearing lion and the unicorn?

I used a  few fine files, and gently filed around the upper moulding till I was  happy.

 

OC.

[hamilton]

Hi Srenner:

 

The build is really shaping up! You mention a "curved" bulkhead above - do you mean curved along the top and bottom edges to match the deck camber? Or curved convex or concave on the fore/aft plane? I think that period practice would argue against the latter, though as in all things the aesthetic choices of the modeller are their own! Adherence to historical accuracy - especially in a kit like this one that has soooo many complications in it - is always tricky with a kit and ultimately it's about what is satisfying to you. Anyway, looking forward to seeing more progress.

hamilton

[Srenner]

Hi hamilton

 

So your saying keep it square, the galley sticks out under the overhang of the forecastle circa 1730 design?... probably easier as the forward gun port is also partially under the forecastle deck

[Gregory]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:58 AM, Srenner said:

Hi... is there an article on here explaining the best way to use the cotton thread between deck plank method? It just looks stronger line than the pencil edge which I tried hb graphite or should I go for charcoal pencil instead? Any help appreciated thanks

At this scale the thread may be a bit overkill.   Just a pencil helps define the edge of the planks.  Charcoal tends to be messy, and hard to clean up if it ends up on top of the planks. 

[allanyed]

12 hours ago, Srenner said:

So your saying keep it square, the galley sticks out under the overhang of the forecastle circa 1730 design?

Looking at the contemporary drawings at RMG and those in the Blanford (20) book by Peter Goodwin, the galley stove was on the lower deck and the stack came up through the upper deck well aft of the forecastle and foremast.  Other 20 gun ships like the Greyhound had the forward most gun aft of the forecastle which was established at 7' 7" fore and aft, and had no overhang.   Regardless, as Hamilton suggested, if accuracy is not a priority for you, go with what makes you happy.  It is after all, a hobby.

 

Allan

[hamilton]

I would also suggest that, at 1:100 scale the area beneath and immediately aft of the forecastle will get extremely crowded and any extension of the bulkhead will compound that situation - though I'm still a little vague on what you have in mind for the "curve"....in any case, it might pay to make a scale drawing with the deck elements included to see what kind of ramifying effects a structural change will produce. Everything in ship construction relates to something else, so any adjustment is going to affect those relationships - and since the maximization of the efficient and effective use of space is probably one of if not the main construction principle in maritime architecture and design, the smallest change can have a significant effect on the overall arrangements.

 

Regardless - the model is looking good!

hamilton

Edited March 22, 2023 by hamilton

[Srenner]

Hi hamilton

 

Looking at your model of the Blandford you put the stairs in front of the foremost gun port which goes under the forecastle overhang. Is that the only way to get stairs going upto that deck into there? It seems logical - maybe they are removable stairs or fold out stairs that can be taken down in action? Did you make the forecastle smaller?

 

I downloaded this picture from the internet today maybe some other ways to go

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

I am making progress with the deck planking but doh.. I noticed I have mucked up the 3 butt pattern! Of course I only noticed it after the deck was laid and glued... and I'm not going to fix it.

 

The cotton makes a pretty bold pattern on the white of the beech but I like the contrast of the white boards made a bit yellow by the shellac and the black cotton. 

 

The method is to dot the ca on the butt plank joins and stretch the cotton out until it sticks then use the shellac to stick it all down... I am applying the shellac neat out of the can but I want that yellowing to also age the wood a little

[allanyed]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:39 AM, Srenner said:

foremost gun port which goes under the forecastle overhang

I am pretty sure the forward most guns are aft of the forecastle, not under it on the Blanford.   Apologies for the pasted mess below but it is to scale, and from the Blanford AOTS book by Peter Goodwin.

 

Allan

 

[Srenner]

I've finished the decking but my mind is firmly on adding those carbed features to the doors to the cabins in old blender. Really struggling to find good photos of carved features in keeping with 1700s king George ii times. 

 

One of course is the royal coat of arms, the other is his initials but also thinking about some of the carving you see around the figure head of hms Victory... what would be appropriate artworks to adorn the tops of frames etc?

 

What about inventing a ships badge just for decoration? Dimond shape for frigate?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Srenner

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, Srenner said:

keeping with 1700s king George ii times. 

Is this kit the Greyhound  of 1719 or 1741.  I thought it was for 1719, but.....    In any case, I am pretty sure King George I would be appropriate for the former and George II for the latter.  The monograms are pretty much the same except for the numeral 2.  

2 hours ago, Srenner said:

what would be appropriate artworks to adorn the tops of frames etc

Can you show a picture of what you mean on this?  The tops of the frames have a rail so they are not exposed.  There were figures on top of bitt pins and such on ships to about 1710 but would not be appropriate for a ship built in 1719 or 1741.  Then again, it is your model so whatever pleases you is the way to go.  There are many examples at the RMG Collections site and close ups in a number of books from Franklin, Kriegstein collection and many more that should be of some help. One example: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66347

 

Above all else, keep having fun.

 

Allan

 

 

 

[Srenner]

While I'm working on my blender skills (again!) Trying to make some decent windows and things I moved on to the second planking... and things going okay... except for the 2mm x 2mm walnut for the main wales which split when i tried to bend them... now soaking them overnight before trying to bend again tomorrow. And move onto the starboard side before going onto the diminishing timbers below the wales.

[allanyed]

On 4/2/2023 at 1:38 AM, Srenner said:

walnut for the main wales which split

Have you tried pre-bending it with heat, ala Chuck Passaro's methods in his You Tube videos?  Heat is key to soften the lignin. Softening temperatures for lignin range from 127-193C.   While soaking in water is not necessary it will decrease the softening temperature drastically. 

Consider using distilled water as the chemicals in water coming out of the tap may cause discoloration of some types of wood.

 

 Does anyone know why so many kits use this wood?  It is open grained so totally out of scale, often brittle, and overall tough to work with.   Is it cost or more a kit tradition?   

 

Allan

Edited April 3, 2023 by allanyed

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Does anyone know why so many kits use this wood? 

A few years ago, most of the kits were coming from Italy, and they were putting together what would sell as decorative mantle pieces.

The idea was to put some contrasting varieties in the box so it would look like something with 'wood-appeal' ..  

They didn't have a market that was making demands.  If they had put boxwood and pear in the kits, no one would have bought the higher price, because the market

was not the kind of people you find on MSW.

 

There was no MSW or allanyed's to question their purpose or methods..

 

MS  and BlueJacket kits were mostly bass, with the idea that it was going to be painted..      

[Srenner]

Allan, it is weird especially because the main Wales are painted black... could still be basswood but I tried the chuck method and it was the 2mm thickness that didn't work .but the results are okay today... one stick is split but I will glue it down and it will be alright I think. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

Surprise luck in terms of cabin details... this popped up in my Facebook feed about hms rose and then found her in the ship board models with a photo... so easier to "modify" the Greyhound to be similar without the gilt work

[Srenner]

Here is the first output from the new 3d printer... some 2mm high pins sized for the Wales so I can pin them down during gluing.

 

I designed them in blender and exported them as an object into the slicer program  and then duplicated about 20 of them across the build plate. Am also going to make some 1mm high ones for the walnut second planking

 

The cool thing is I can keep making them from now... I need to 3d print a little funnel for the resin filter to go back into the bottle

[Srenner]

Finished the Wales on one side and now moving to the other one... need to maybe do a bit of sanding just to smooth it but it's pretty good amd also happy with my first lot of 3d printing..

[Srenner]

After a nice Easter weekend I got to sit down and do some solid mucking around on blender and I got the start of the stern piece shaped by using some boolean modifiers and importing the image of the piece into an empty. The hard part was filling it correctly so it would print properly... there is mark 1 to mark 3 versions in the photos.

 

I'm happier with mark 3 and I can now start on the decorations like the lion and the unicorn on the sides as well as windows which I will print and insert into the opening. 

[hamilton]

A unique approach to the stern - looking forward to seeing how it shapes up! The planking looks great so far!

hamilton

[Srenner]

Thanks hamilton... I am going to attempt to put some oak texture on there and it will have to be painted of course to make it look good which is also hard...

 

Such an interesting hobby combining wood, plastic, airbrushing, paint effects, computers and 3d printing! And also soldering.. my least favorite part.. oh and sewing.

[wedge]

Now that is kit bashing and scratch building on another level... Props.

[Srenner]

Build update... its taken a lot of time and mucking around in blender but ove reached the beginner stage I think... starting to get closer results to the piece supplied in the kit.

 

I noticed one of the sections on the stern has be ripped from hms Victory... so don't feel as bad taking a little bit of poetic license with the decorations.

 

I'm going to make a running greyhound as the figurehead.

 

 

[allanyed]

Your idea for a greyhound dog figure head is a great idea, especially as it is considered the oldest known thoroughbred dog.

 

For your stern piece, just as an FYI, not in any way a suggestion to change anything, by orders of the Admiralty British naval vessels did not have the name of the ship on the stern, or anywhere else for that matter, except between 1780 and 1790.  When names were on the stern in those 10 years and after the days of sail, they were always painted, never carved letters.   As your Greyhound was launched in 1720 and broken up in 1741, she would not have had her name on the stern.    Again,  this is just meant as an FYI, it is your model and your choice of course.  

Allan

Edited April 24, 2023 by allanyed

[Srenner]

After mesh wrangling all weekend I have tried a test print on the unicorn... surprised it doesn't look too bad. Going to increase its thickness a little bit more so it stands out as a relief off the surface.

[Srenner]

The stern carvings are coming together now and I made a nice print by only tilting about 20 degrees instead of the 45 I was before. Also beefing up the contacts with the supports helps it not to pull away while it's being printed.

 

I'm working on the lion but as you can see the results are a lot better than the piece supplied with the kit. 

 

And because of the scandalous use of hms nelson carving on the coral piece I felt I could do what I wanted with it to a degree