HMS Bounty Launch by Oakheart - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 – 18th century - based on drawings from National Maritime Museum

[iMustBeCrazy]

11 hours ago, oakheart said:

Well here we are

 

6 hours ago, Montaigne said:

I'm continuously impressed with you going almost straight into scratch building and the results.

I have to agree, without giving Tim too bigger a head, I have seen worse from people on their second or third kit. Well done.

 

Of course there are issues (just to keep that head from swelling too much), the gaps, the bows, the transom, but I have no doubt that the next one will be even better.

 

Tim, make up a brace to hold the sides in until you have fitted the thwarts (see my small cutter #27).

 

5 hours ago, oakheart said:

moving on, whats next?

Inwale (4x1mm strip running along the inside of the frames at the top of the sheer), breasthook and transom knees. All this adds strength. Then work from the bottom up.

 

6 hours ago, Montaigne said:

still in the "planning everything and saving up to buy kits and tools" stage)

Don't get too obsessed with tools, it really doesn't take much with a kit and you can buy or build them as you go. Please do start a build log when you get the Launch, there are a few tricks and traps you will want to avoid.

Edited February 2, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[Montaigne]

1 hour ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Don't get too obsessed with tools, it really doesn't take much with a kit and you can buy or build then as you go. Please do start a build log when you get the Launch, there are a few tricks and traps you will want to avoid.

Thanks Craig, appreciate it. I actually already have most of the tools I will need, just need to add a few; some clamps, a cutting mat, a piercing saw to replace my shoddy one, and then I should be good to go. I'll probably build a basic work stand and/or building slip myself. I've worked with all kinds of crafting in life, so thankfully my startup costs wont be too high. That said, being on a minimum pension, even just the model kits are a stretch. But I'll be able to afford it within the following months. But that's ok, because I enjoy the planning and research stages of projects. Having recently discovered the MSW forum has been a great joy, and I will definitely have a build log for my first build.

[oakheart]

1 hour ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

 the next one will be even better.

make up a brace to hold the sides in until you have fitted the thwarts (see my small cutter #27).

 

Thanks Craig, once my head has settled down, I will do all of the things you suggest. 

 

As to what's next as a build ( apart from the my Bounty Launch in cedar )

Do I get a kit or do another scratch ?

 

I am rather taken by the 18th century Cutters.

The Sherbourne and Lady Nelson?  I think they look kind of dumpy, some would say cute.

so possibly an Alert / Rattlesnake much more elegant.

The Rattlesnake appeals because I had family from Folkestone ( my Uncle Stan ) 

As a pensioner I can't justify the cost of the Vanguard Alert kit, it does look nice. Are there others out there?

For a scratch there is a good amount of information about both, AntonyUK and others on this site have done drawings for them.

I will do some more research and look for information, there are some good scratch build logs on here built from the Goodwin book.

 

Tim

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

30 minutes ago, oakheart said:

As to what's next as a build

For my next I'm thinking something different, my father and his mates built this in 1949:

 

 

31 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I am rather taken by the 18th century Cutters.

19th century? https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23486-lapwing-1816-revenue-cutter/?do=findComment&comment=691663

 

I still have a lot of work to do on it though.

[Montaigne]

3 hours ago, oakheart said:

As to what's next as a build ( apart from the my Bounty Launch in cedar )

May I ask why you choose cedar? Reason I ask is because I'm considering substituting some of the wood in the Model Shipways Bounty launch kit, mainly because I'd like to achieve a better to scale impression of the wood grain. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that the wood for planking in the kit (I think it's basswood) have rather defined fibres. I'm going to order samples of beech and pear for testing when I order the model, would you advice ordering some cedar too?

Edited February 3, 2023 by Montaigne

[oakheart]

11 hours ago, allanyed said:

You have convinced me to try this method

And there was me  looking at your plug method and thinking I must try that as it gave you a good result.
Let's see how CrazyCraig gets on with his separate futtocks and floors.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

5 hours ago, Montaigne said:

why you choose cedar? 

Chuck Passaro and others have been singing the praises of Alaskan Yellow Cedar, look for Chucks longboat build log on this site.

I then found somewhere in the UK to get some so ordered some. It does look nice and works beautifully.

 

Basswood ( Lime in UK ) carves beautifully with sharp tools but it goes all kind of fluffy / stringy when you sand it.

Using a brand new Stanley Knife blade as a scraper gives a really good surface finish.

As long as you don't get glue on the surface, It will stain nicely to any wood colour you want.
I have a love / hate relationship with it on this build.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

8 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

19th century?

Nice work on the cutter, way ahead of me as usual 🙂

I am going to read the whole thread with my coffee. It could be a candidate for a build.

 

I was in Melbourne / Sydney  in October 2022 visiting relatives, shame I had not found this community at that time. 

Did a bit of research into the First Fleet while I was there. 

 

Tim

[oakheart]

11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

issues the gaps, the bows, the transom

 

Lessons learned so far:

 

Pay more attention to the early stages. Like cutting and sanding the frames to shape.

 

Do more work on fitting the planks, I did find it tedious to keep putting in on to check, take it off to sand, put it back on bla,bla,bla

 

Try different methods of clamping

 

I need to slow down and not try to rush things.

 

At these small scales I need to learn to use a more delicate approach with my tools.

 

So my thinking is to move on to the next hull build and leave the 2nd fixings of internal details for later.

That way I still have my planking skills ( ha. ha. ) fresh.

 

I may experiment with more planks on the next hull, we don't know how many the original had anyway

and it should lessen the problem I had with planks not laying flat.

The Cornish Maritime Museum full size build used 14 per side, I think maybe they did that for the same reason.

 

Tim

 

off for a coffee and a read of Craig's cutter drawing log

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Montaigne said:

I'm considering substituting some of the wood in the Model Shipways Bounty launch kit,

Hi Montaigne

Looking at photos of the kit it looks nice.   You may want to study the contemporary drawings of the 23 foot launch at RMG as well.   There appear to be some differences in their modern day kit design and the contemporary drawings.   Scantlings for the 23 foot launch can be found here at MSW if you want compare contemporary based measurements with those of the kit parts.     https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33539-23-foot-launch-by-allanyed-bounty-late-18th-century/#comments   

Allan

[Montaigne]

9 hours ago, oakheart said:

Chuck Passaro and others have been singing the praises of Alaskan Yellow Cedar, look for Chucks longboat build log on this site.

I then found somewhere in the UK to get some so ordered some. It does look nice and works beautifully.

 

Basswood ( Lime in UK ) carves beautifully with sharp tools but it goes all kind of fluffy / stringy when you sand it.

Using a brand new Stanley Knife blade as a scraper gives a really good surface finish.

As long as you don't get glue on the surface, It will stain nicely to any wood colour you want.
I have a love / hate relationship with it on this build.

Thanks, Tim. Looking at Chuck's longboat build the cedar looks very nice indeed, not to mention the build itself, what a masterpiece.

 

That's exactly how I remember basswood: I would sand it forever trying to get rid of the fluffy/stringy surface. Never tried scraping though, good tip!

[Montaigne]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Montaigne

Looking at photos of the kit it looks nice.   You may want to study the contemporary drawings of the 23 foot launch at RMG as well.   There appear to be some differences in their modern day kit design and the contemporary drawings.   Scantlings for the 23 foot launch can be found here at MSW if you want compare contemporary based measurements with those of the kit parts.     https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33539-23-foot-launch-by-allanyed-bounty-late-18th-century/#comments   

Allan

Thanks, Allan, I agree, the Model Shipways kit looks nice, and there does appear to be differences. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what the launch actually looked like, and realize it's going to be some guesswork.

 

Funny you should mention RMG, because for the past days I've been in touch with them regarding research and drawings for the original figurehead on the Cutty Sark. Reason being I'm working on a 3D version of the figurehead for the purpose of sculpting it by hand, in about a foot long size. The staff at RMG have been most helpful. Anyway, I had no idea that RMG also have the Bounty in their archives, good tip. Also, I didn't make the connection that the National Maritime Museum is actually RMG. Hm... I believe a trip overseas to London should be planned some time in the future, as several of my planned builds have representation there; such as the James Caird at Dulwich College.

Your build log of the Bounty launch was one of the first I bookmarked for reference. Lots of fascinating research there, not to mention the build itself.

[iMustBeCrazy]

2 hours ago, Montaigne said:

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what the launch actually looked like

Haven't we all?

 

Taking a stab at it, from the comment about being short of white (paint) for the small cutter I'd guess all the boats were painted white (impress the natives) with the sheer probably painted in a colour that somehow matched the Bounty.

Sometime before leaving Tahiti the bottom of the launch was painted with half pitch half tar (probably coal pitch (black) and pine (or Stockholm) tar (anything from light amber to dark brown)). The effect was probably a brown/black wash over the white leaving the launch rather dirty/shabby in appearance which would do little to impress the natives and may have increased the chance of being attacked.

 

2 hours ago, Montaigne said:

and there does appear to be differences

Model Shipways kit (green) v ZAZ7361 the drawing from the books:

Edited February 3, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[oakheart]

10 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Taking a stab at it, from the comment about being short of white (paint) for the small cutter I'd guess all the boats were painted white (impress the natives) with the sheer probably painted in a colour that somehow matched the Bounty.

Sometime before leaving Tahiti the bottom of the launch was painted with half pitch half tar (probably coal pitch (black) and pine (or Stockholm) tar (anything from light amber to dark brown)). The effect was probably a brown/black wash over the white leaving the launch rather dirty/shabby in appearance

I think that's what I will aim for, it will cover up all my mistakes, with a bit of extra weathering from the journey I think it could look very interesting.

 

Add a bit of dried blood spatter on the inside from those boobies they ate raw.

Mind a good deal of that would have been washed away by all the sea water coming into the boat and being bailed out again.

 

Tim

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by oakheart

[Montaigne]

3 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Taking a stab at it, from the comment about being short of white (paint) for the small cutter I'd guess all the boats were painted white (impress the natives) with the sheer probably painted in a colour that somehow matched the Bounty.

Sometime before leaving Tahiti the bottom of the launch was painted with half pitch half tar (probably coal pitch (black) and pine (or Stockholm) tar (anything from light amber to dark brown)). The effect was probably a brown/black wash over the white leaving the launch rather dirty/shabby in appearance which would do little to impress the natives and may have increased the chance of being attacked.

 

Model Shipways kit (green) v ZAZ7361:

That sounds reasonable. It seems the Bounty launch in all it's representations; literature, art, movies, model kits and replicas have been painted in so many different colour variations that one would think many of them are just picking any one they like aesthetically. (Which in many cases is okay, of course, it just muddies the waters for research).

 

Brilliant work with the overlay. Some of it seems like an easy fix, such as the tiller. The difference in height of  the hull requires some work, but might be worth it considering its historical significance. Quoting The Journal of Bounty's Launch: "It has been calculated that when overloaded with 19 men, gear and provisions, she floated with a bare 6 inches of freeboard."

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Montaigne

[iMustBeCrazy]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:20 AM, oakheart said:

The Rattlesnake appeals

Tim, have you seen the nice big clear Danish Archive copy of the Rattlesnake drawing? https://ao.sa.dk/ao/data.ashx?bid=31921156

 

[allanyed]

Craig, Great high resolution plan, thanks for the link.   Do you know what year this particular Rattle Snake was launched?

Thanks

Allan

[oakheart]

7 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

 big clear Danish Archive copy of the Rattlesnake drawing

Hi Craig, thanks I had not seen that, it will be very useful.

Interestingly the access stairs are shown running fore and aft, on ZAZ7910 they are shown sideways.
It would make no difference to a typical hull model, but it shows the difference that could happen with different builders

 

What is great is that you can read the text, I have transcribed the mast sizes

 

Rattlesnake Dimensions of masts

Main mast         78’ 6”      20.5” dia
BowSpreet         38’ 6”     18”
Boom                    58’ 10”  12 5/8”
Gaff                       40’          9”
Storm Gaff          17’          9 3/8”
Top Gallant         35’ 10”  9”
Square sail yard 49’ 8”    9”
Top Sail Yard       36’ 9”     8 ½”
Mizen Mast        38’ 2”     9 ½”
Out  Rigger          33’ 9”     8  ¼”
Yards                     30’          6 ½”
Jibb Boom           30’ 8”     7 ½”
Driver Boom       27’          6 ¾”

 

Tim

Edited February 6, 2023 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

5 hours ago, allanyed said:

Do you know what year this particular Rattle Snake was launched?

Not exactly but the RMG has her down as 1777.

[oakheart]

The thickness sander I cobbled together for the cedar planks needs rebuilding, he double sided tape on the sandpaper keeps letting go

so the next hull is on hold.

Instead, I have started on the floor and internal parts on the Basswood hull.

Not sure of the correct flooring layout, so have copied what I can see in the photos of other builds

 

I will add photos later, just having my morning coffee.

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

22 minutes ago, oakheart said:

the double sided tape on the sandpaper keeps letting go

I thought you were being a bit optimistic at 10mm diameter.

[oakheart]

3 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

I thought you were being a bit optimistic at 10mm diameter.

I have found some 25mm ( 1 inch ) dia. ready made sleeves. I now have to make something that will fit in the chuck and spin true.

The workshop is too cold today, so will work on the hull instead.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

So here is my interpretation of the floor, does it look right?

 

 

needs some cleaning up  round the edges.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

4 hours ago, oakheart said:

does it look right?

I'm not that old!

 

The only real problem is you need to come up to the forward thwart.

 

Some examples:

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66671

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-67761

 

Based mainly on the above and other contemporary models, the quarterdeck was likely solid (no gaps between planks), the foredeck either solid or a grating.

Based on experience, the rowers need somewhere to brace their feet. Either raised floorboards or footrests.

 

There will be exceptions.

 

 

 

[allanyed]

The drawings show a platform aft that sits about 15 inches above the keel.  Hard to tell if that is the case in your photo.   That gives room for the davit chocks  that hold the pivot rod beneath the aft platform.   There would be a rectangular hole in the aft platform that is large enough for the davit to go through to the rod.   

 

Your model is exceptional Craig,  kudos!!

 

Allan

Edited February 14, 2023 by allanyed

[AnobiumPunctatum]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:44 AM, iMustBeCrazy said:

Tim, have you seen the nice big clear Danish Archive copy of the Rattlesnake drawing? https://ao.sa.dk/ao/data.ashx?bid=31921156

 

If you want to build Alert or Rattlesnake "As designed" the drawing is fine. Be aware that there some differences between the design drawing you can buy at the NMM and the copy in the Danish archive. In my opion it is a result of the manual work.

If you want to build her as-built, you have to buy the as built drawing from the RMG. 

[oakheart]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:48 PM, allanyed said:

The drawings show a platform aft that sits about 15 inches above the keel.    

Your model is exceptional Craig,  kudos!!

Hi Allan

The rear platform sits about a scale 6" off the keel. I will redo the main floor planks based on Craig's comments above

If the kudos was really meant  for me then thank you, ( now my head really will swell )

 

Sort of lost focus over the last week, back now and will try and get some bits done on this build

 

Tim

[oakheart]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:54 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you want to build Alert or Rattlesnake "As designed" the drawing is fine. Be aware that there some differences between the design drawing you can buy at the NMM and the copy in the Danish archive. In my opion it is a result of the manual work.

If you want to build her as-built, you have to buy the as built drawing from the RMG. 

Thanks Christian, I will watch out for the differences. I have the drawing from RMG as well as the one from the Danish archive.
I really should finish this build first, but there is no harm in setting out plans for a new build, is there ?

Tim

[allanyed]

21 minutes ago, oakheart said:

If the kudos was really meant  for me then thank you, ( now my head really will swell )

Yes it was meant for you.   With more than two people active on scratch building this same project I get confused.😀

[AnobiumPunctatum]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

Thanks Christian, I will watch out for the differences. I have the drawing from RMG as well as the one from the Danish archive.
I really should finish this build first, but there is no harm in setting out plans for a new build, is there ?

Tim

Hi Tim,

 

I finished my reconstruction of the as-built and a possible frame design in January. I know that there is the AotS of the Alert but I was not happy with the reconstruction given by Goodwin. 

Now I am busy with preparing my build.  If you have later questions please let me know.