USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[mtbediz]

Great work Peter!

[Der Alte Rentner]

Is it just me? Or are the eye bolts that came with my kit a lot smaller than they should be. Compare and contrast to a picture from the Hunt practicum.

 

 

 

Also, because the diecast carronades that came with the kit are in such horrible shape, I purchased some replacements online. (Scroll back a few posts if you don't remember this..)  These do not have the eye bolts attached at the cascabel that appears on the ones in the model shipways kit. Hipexec discussed this in his build somewhere on page 31.  I can't say I like any of the three solutions broached in that discussion. I really don't want to have to file every single one of the model ship ways carronades, (which I didn't bring with me anyway).  But I can't see me attempting to drill holes in the cascabels and inserting eye bolts to facilitate rigging.  Sigh..

 

 

 

Edited February 13 by Der Alte Rentner

[GGibson]

Hey Peter!  My 2 cents... if the bottom picture is from the Hunt practicum, they look way bigger than they need to be.  If I can try to pretend to be Jon Gerson with any type of accuracy on my part, attached are the plans for the carronades that I had downloaded a while back as a part of my prep for my own eventual build and the concerns y'all have expressed regarding the various carronade configurations.  I'll let you do the scale math for the 1:76.8 rate but, if I am reading the plans correctly, the eyebolts are 1-1/4" in diameter in real size.  What does that convert down to in our scale in inches or millimeters?

 

Also, the plans' list of materials states there are twelve (12) of these eyebolts for two cannons, which is six each (if I'm doing that math correctly... 🤔).  I can spot four (4) of them on the Detail "13-A" drawing (Item #13 in the parts list), but not finding the other two.  

 

Anyways, I think you are good with the eyebolts you have, if they even need to be a bit smaller.  The carronades, though, that you have made look great!

 

EDIT:  Just realized (duh) that these plans are for the 'elevator screw' type carronades and not the ones you have made.  Not sure how that changes the measurements on the eyebolts.  Sorry!! 

 

6184310-Carronade.pdf

[JSGerson]

Ha! Trying to steal my thunder Gregg!!??😁Here is the plan for the wedge type carronade. And yes, Mr. Hunt used oversized eyebolts.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Thank you Gregg and Jon,

Sadly, one tool I forgot to bring with me was my Vernier caliper.  Measurements will have to wait.  So, carronades will be a back burner issue until I return to the shipyard.  In the mean time, I will likely go ahead and build the carriages.  Keeping Mustafa's caveat in mind, I've convinced myself that I won't have a problem drilling holes for the eyebolts after the carriages are assembled. I tried hand drilling one today.  That's not going to fly!  I'm pretty sure I can setup the Proxxon mill to handle the holes later.  All I need to do is construct another fixture or two.  (famous last words?)🤔

 

I did bring one of the kit's carronades with me.  Judging from the plans you two provided, I think these are too long.  However, after doing some cleanup and painting it black, I might yet opt to use the MS parts.  The rigging issue will thus be taken care of. 

 

Off to the pool..  Enjoy the winter up North! 

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

17 hours ago, GGibson said:

EDIT:  Just realized (duh) that these plans are for the 'elevator screw' type carronades and not the ones you have made.  Not sure how that changes the measurements on the eyebolts.  Sorry!! 

 

Nothing to be sorry about.  I appreciate the effort.

Thanks again

[Der Alte Rentner]

Progress. Slow going, but the assembly line is at least moving.

 

 

 

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Some whittling was required to get the carronades to sit level in the carriages.  The longer guns from the MS kit would not have required this modification, but I think my direction is decided. I'm going to stick with the brass carronades, and stain the carriages the same color as the hull planking. I just couldn't see going with black carronades and red carriages everyone is using on their MS builds.  It's just not in keeping with the character of my vision for mine.

 

 

 

Drat!  The stain I purchased here isn't the same color or consistency as the gel stain I used on the hull.  It was the only thing I could find at the local Ace Hardware, so, next steps will have to wait until I return to the shipyard next week.  Oh well...

 

 

Edited February 18 by Der Alte Rentner
added content

[mtbediz]

The carronades look very nice, I'm just wondering how you would add the loops that the rope goes through.

Edited February 18 by mtbediz

[Der Alte Rentner]

8 minutes ago, mtbediz said:

The carronades look very nice, I'm just wondering how you would add the loops that the rope goes through.

As I mentioned on my post to your build log, I plan to follow in your footsteps for the long guns on The Spar deck. I did do a quick online search and found this sketch of the rigging that I foresee you, and subsequently me, employing for the long guns.

 

[mtbediz]

Thank you for the sketch Peter, what I did is almost the same combination as in sketch. In the photos below, you can see the long gun I prepared and the long gun on the real ship I used as reference.

 

Edited February 19 by mtbediz

[Der Alte Rentner]

Oh snap!  Thanks to a mistake I acknowledged way back when when installing the waterways, my carronades do not fit well on the spa deck.  The waterways are way too big and I can't get the carronade anywhere close enough to the gun ports to look good. 

 

Hell's bells, not even the longer parts that came with the kit will reach the gun ports.  Sigh..

 

See last two photo in this set to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Der Alte Rentner

[GGibson]

Can those front trucks/wheels be moved back in order for the carriage to get closer to the gun ports?

[bthoe]

Can the upper part of the carriage be moved forward?  See sketch from Navy plans:

[mtbediz]

Yes, the waterways shown in the kit instructions are too wide, I made them narrower. 

By the way, I agree with Bthoe but it can be difficult to separate the parts you glued.

Edited March 2 by mtbediz

[Der Alte Rentner]

Thank you Gregg, Bob and Mustafa.  

 

I had the exact same thoughts as Gregg and Bob this morning, and reached much the same conclusion as Mustafa. 

 

It's too late to move the upper part of the carriage.  However, Since I haven't yet glued the front wheel pieces to the remaining 19 carriages, I could simply glue these further back under the carriage to get a smidge closer to the ports.  Not enough to really matter, I think - and if one looked carefully, one would question  why the they were placed there.   Were I to do that, I may as well ditch the wheels altogether and glue a small rectangle to the bottom of the carriages in lieu of the wheels - saving time and effort in shaping those infernal cast parts - period!  I'll experiment with that to see If I can get away with it.

 

Another thought was to try to trim/carve the waterways back without destroying them or the planking butting up against them.  (Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!)     🤔 No, I'm don't think I'm going to attempt that.  

 

Plan C -  Maybe I can attempt to make some extension out of brass and affix them to the business end of the carronades?  I think matching the color and "finish" of the rest of the carronade will be problematic.   

 

Plan D - Replace all the carronades with long gun barrels?  Costly, and I'm sure I'll get an earful from the historical purists out there.  

 

Or I can go the way of Bob Hunt himself. Ignore it..  I took a much closer look at Chapter 11, page 42, of the practicum and realize that Bob himself attempted to conceal the issue in the way he photographed the carronades.  Of course, he used the crappy materials from the kit, which did afford him the luxury of a couple extra millimeters, but even his carronades fall short of poking through the gunports.

 

Here's a photo from Chapter 12 that I think clearly illustrates that Bob fell short, and didn't care(?).

After I submit this post, I'm going back into the early pages of this build log and issue a caveat to others about the error in the Practicum that led to this dilemma.  I knew then the waterways were not according to plan, but I didn't realize how big a difference it made until now.

 

 

Edited March 3 by Der Alte Rentner

[mtbediz]

If you used CA when gluing the carriage parts, you can try using pure acetone to separate them without damaging the parts. Pure acetone has the ability to dissolve dried CA. I have done this from time to time. But you should use pure acetone, that is, the diluted acetone that women use to remove nail polish does not work.

[Der Alte Rentner]

No, I very carefully painted on wood glue for all of the assembly on the carriages. I wanted to have a little bit more work time, and I didn't want to risk anything sticking permanently to the fixture. I am not going to take those carriages apart. I just arrived at the shipyard and I'm going to spend a couple of hours scratching my head over the matter and see where it goes from there.

 

Thank you, Mustafa.

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 2/5/2025 at 12:12 PM, kekelly2 said:

I am very impressed by your work and wish to congratulate you on a beautiful build.  I would like to use your trestles for setting my model upright as I have nearly completed the coppering of the hull.  Would you mind sharing your dimensions?

By trestle, I assume you mean the display base that I made for the Constitution. If so it's roughly 18 1/2" wide, 7" deep and 1 1/2" tall.  As for the central support, I use the billet from which the bulkheads were pulled to get the shape.  The height of the pedestals and the measurement from the base to the bottom of the groove in the central support are 1 3/8".

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Decision made.  I'm sticking with the status quo.  

 

I made more work for myself by applying 2 coats of clear polyurethane to the carriages before adding the eyebolts and pins on the quions. The poly clogged the holes, which then had to be bored out by hand.

 

I didn't like hand painting the wheels, so used double sided tape and spray paint/primer instead.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:07 PM by Der Alte Rentner
corrected one of the ever present typos.

[Der Alte Rentner]

44 holes drilled by hand, which wasn't easy on the arthritic fingers.  

 

A belated thank you to Mustafa for sharing the tecnique..