Remington Industries

[Roger Pellett]

I need to make a large quantity of ringbolts for the hatch covers for my current project.  At 1:96 scale they are tiny.  I decided to make them from 30ga (.010” diameter) tinned wire so I ordered a small spool from Amazon.

 

The wire was supplied by a Company named Remington Industries.  They are a supply house in the Chicago area specializing in wire.  They stock bare copper, tinned copper, nichrome, and stainless steel wires., plus various insulated wires.  There is no minimum order, they do not charge for shipping and service was prompt.

 

A possible source for specialized needs. Next time I’ll order direct.  Website is Remingtonindustries.com

 

Roger

Edited October 17, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[popeye2sea]

Good find.  Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

At 1:96 scale they are tiny

That's the truth.  I just made a couple using 30 gage and it was tricky.  I wrapped the wire around a drill bit of the appropriate diameter then removed the "spring" and clipped the rings.  How do you make your rings?

Allan

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

Short Answer: I’m cheating!

 

Actually, I’m still refining the process.  There are 150+ to make. ID of each ring is 1/32”.  Here’s my process:

 

1.  Make a fixture consisting of a 1/32” diameter aluminum wire embedded in an aluminum block.  There is also a brass ground lug bolted to the block.

 

2.  Make loops of 30 gage tinned copper wire.  Diameter is unimportant.  Ends of wire are lightly twisted and soldered together.

 

3.  Place one end of the loop over the aluminum pin in the fixture.  Chuck the other end in an “eggbeater” type hand drill.  Turn the drill until the loop twists and forms an eye around the 1/32” dia Al pin.

 

4. Solder the twisted tail using my resistance soldering device.

 

5.  Remove from fixture and round up the eye with a tapered pin.

 

I have tried steps 1-4 with success.  In use, the rings will lay flat on the hatch board with the tail cemented into a hole in the board.

 

Roger

[Toolmaker]

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

That's the truth.  I just made a couple using 30 gage and it was tricky.  I wrapped the wire around a drill bit of the appropriate diameter then removed the "spring" and clipped the rings.  How do you make your rings?

Allan

 

 

I have used this method myself Allan, as seen here.

I was using pre-painted wire.

 

The ship in question was ww2 era, hence the painted wire. The wire was soft enough to cut with a scalpel.

 

I hope the pictures are helpful to someone.

Regards

Paul

[allanyed]

Thanks Paul, much appreciated.

I usually do the same, but to be to scale I needed to use 30 gauge wire and it does not work so neatly.   Thanks again!!  

Allan

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Short Answer: I’m cheating!

No you are not, it is the end result that counts.  This is worth a try if I ever make the mistake of doing another 1:96 scale project 😀

Thanks Roger

Allan

Edited October 17, 2023 by allanyed

[Bob Cleek]

22 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

I need to make a large quantity of ringbolts for the hatch covers for my current project.  At 1:96 scale they are tiny.  I decided to make them from 30ga (.010” diameter) tinned wire so I ordered a small spool from Amazon.

 

12 hours ago, allanyed said:

That's the truth.  I just made a couple using 30 gage and it was tricky.  I wrapped the wire around a drill bit of the appropriate diameter then removed the "spring" and clipped the rings.  How do you make your rings?

I feel your pain! It's unfortunate that you're not modeling a Liberty ship. The hatch covers they used didn't require eye bolts and rings and would have been a much less tedious job of fabricating!  

 

 

If I may be so presumptuous, I'd like to suggest a slightly different "production line" approach to fabricating a large number of identical eye bolts and rings. I recognize that I am presumptuously offering these suggestions to a couple of guys who have probably already each made more eye bolts and rings than I ever will in a lifetime of modeling and that my experience in this endeavor exceeds theirs only in the number of my failures rather than my successes!   

 

1)   The rings and the eye bolt "eyes" are formed on suitably-sized drill bit shaft "mandrels." Coil up as many as you require, or in the largest increments that are convenient given the length of your mandrel. All wire should be previously untouched ("fresh off the spool") and handled while wearing nitrile gloves to prevent contamination with bodily oils which would contaminate solder joints and require acid cleaning before "blackening" if that is desired. Treat the working area like a sterile surgical field.  

 

2)   Don't unbend the "spring" on the mandrel and clip the rings with diagonal cutting pliers or even a sharp scalpel blade because these cutting methods will generally result in a "mashed" or "crimped" end on the severed ends which will likely require deburring and/or filing square after being cut in order to achieve the required contact between the ends when soldered. (This shape of the cut ends becomes less of an issue as the wire becomes thinner, of course, but still makes a difference even with very fine wire because it promotes a neater solder joint which will require less finish cleanup of the soldered joints, if not eliminate that task entirely.) Instead, use a jeweler's saw to saw through all the rings on the mandrel in a single saw cut with the blade running parallel to the mandrel shaft. This should produce "squared" sawn edges on the rings produced which should, when pressed together in the case of rings, or soldered to the sides of a separate wire "eye bolt shaft" in the case of eye bolt eyes, permit maximum contact of the faying surfaces essential for a neat, strong solder joint. The saw blade used for cutting the rings should be the narrowest possible so that the cut edges may be pushed together without unduly affecting the circular shape of the ring. The saw blade used for cutting the eye bolt eye rings should equal the diameter of the eye bolt shaft so that achieving contact of the ends of the eye and the bolt shaft (describe hereafter) can be accomplished without affecting the circular shape of the eye.

 

3)   Make a soldering jig consisting of an aluminum peg set in a soldering block with an outside diameter matching the inside diameter of the eyebolt eyes. (Solder does not adhere to aluminum.) Place an eyebolt eye over the pin. Place a straight "pigtail" of the same diameter wire as the eye (or perhaps slightly larger) between the two cut ends of the eye and butting up against the aluminum centering pin. If you have sawn the eye ends on the forming mandrel with a saw blade whose kerf matches the diameter of the wire used, the wire should just perfectly fit tightly between the eye ends with all touching each other as required for a good joint and the shaft of the eye bolt eye should fetch up against the aluminum peg so that its end is flush with the inside diameter of the eye bolt eye, making set up and holding in place while soldering easy without additional holding devices. Solder the junction of the eye bolt eye and its shaft in the usual manner. The size of the wire and the degree of actual contact of the ends with each other permitting, a dab of silver solder paste alone may suffice to join the ends. (And in the case of silver solder, which is not gap-filling, if there is no actual contact between the faces to be joined, there won't be any joint at all!) Alternately, if some gap-filling by the solder is required, rosin-cored thin-diameter electrical wire solder can be used. The less solder, of course, the less cleanup of the piece will be required and the less gap-filling that is required, the stronger the joint will be and the amount of handwork to clean excess solder from the piece will be correspondingly reduced. Clean up the joints on the eye bolts.

 

4)   Place an eye bolt ring end through an eye bolt eye and bend the ends so that they touch and are alighned. Solder the ends of the rings together. It may be found convenient to slide the unsoldered rings and eye bolts onto an aluminum peg of suitable size to hold the ring and eye  without slipping and in such manner keep the eye bolt eye away from the ring's solder joint while soldering the ring ends together. Clean solder joint as necessary.

 

5)   Blacken the assembled ring and eye bolts as may be desired.

 

I do believe that twisting the wire "pigtails" of an eye bent around a suitably sized drill bit shaft provides a stronger and better holding eye bolt when glued into a drilled hole in wood and may be less labor-intensive than soldering the eye bolts at all, but as these hatch cover eye bolts and rings will not be under any tension after installation, the holding strength of the shaft is not a consideration and soldering the eye bolts is likely less labor-intensive than twisting the shanks of so many eye bolts. Where, as here, a large number of identically-sized eye bolts and rings must be produced, the soldering of the eye bolt eyes to their bolt shafts, if the jigs described are used, should entail less work than twisting the number of eye bolts required. Moreover, I expect that the additional complication of a ring worked into the eye bolt's eye and the better appearance of the ring's fitting precisely through a round eye, rather than the "crotch" of a twisted wire bolt eye, promises the better appearing result. Where an eye bolt will be placed at the base of a mast or inboard of a deck rail adjacent to a lot of coiled rigging lines, etc., the detail of the eye bolt is less noticeable. However, here, where the eye bolts and rings will be much more apparently visible and less camouflaged by adjacent detail, and, particularly, repetitively lined up as the primary detail in a wide expanse of deck, the viewer's eye will be drawn to them to a much greater degree than otherwise. Given the human eye's particular ability to discern patterns which are "out of alignment," or distinct from  a group of other identical pieces, these hatch cover rings are a detail that is worth spending special time on. 

 

Anyway, just some thoughts on the application of "mass production" techniques to an interesting and all too common challenge... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Toolmaker]

23 hours ago, allanyed said:

Thanks Paul, much appreciated.

I usually do the same, but to be to scale I needed to use 30 gauge wire and it does not work so neatly.   Thanks again!!  

Allan

Ah yes Allen, I see what you mean. The wire I’m showing was more like 26 gauge.

 

Depending on functionality and if painting is an option, you can get lead wire down to, and finer than, 30 gauge. From a modelling perspective, it has all sorts of uses and is easy to work with.

cheers

Paul

Edited October 18, 2023 by Toolmaker

[Toolmaker]

16 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Instead, use a jeweler's saw to saw through all the rings on the mandrel in a single saw cut

Bob, can you fill me in with a bit more information on the “jeweller’s saw” please. Is it realistic to saw 0.2mm/0.008” wire with the saw. Using a saw relies on at least 2 teeth straddling the material so said material doesn’t fall between the teeth, hence the thinner the material the greater the tpi. If you have the detail, what is the traditional tpi on a jewellers saw or is it a diamond impregnated wire blade?

Thanks

Paul

[Roger Pellett]

Bob,  thanks for your post and alternate procedure.  30or so years ago hatch boards like you posted were popular decorator items.  Although I knew what they were, I often wondered where they came from.

 

I recently reviewed a book on the Ocean Class steamships for the Nautical Research Journal.  The more famous Liberty ships  were modifications of the British designed Oceans.  When modifying the design of the Oceans for the Liberties, it was decided to retain the wooden hatch covers as they could also serve as lifesaving devices.

 

Roger

Edited October 18, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

30or so years ago hatch boards like you posted were popular decorator items.

Nothing screams "1960's" like a polyester resin-covered hatch cover coffee table on an avocado green shag carpet. Today's kids just wouldn't get it.   

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

7 hours ago, Toolmaker said:

Bob, can you fill me in with a bit more information on the “jeweller’s saw” please. Is it realistic to saw 0.2mm/0.008” wire with the saw. Using a saw relies on at least 2 teeth straddling the material so said material doesn’t fall between the teeth, hence the thinner the material the greater the tpi. If you have the detail, what is the traditional tpi on a jewellers saw or is it a diamond impregnated wire blade?

Thanks

Paul

Good question. As I noted with respect to using the saw instead of some other cutting method, "This shape of the cut ends becomes less of an issue as the wire becomes thinner, of course, but still makes a difference even with very fine wire because it promotes a neater solder joint which will require less finish cleanup of the soldered joints, if not eliminate that task entirely."

 

Diamond coated saw blades are available in four grits, but they have a relatively wide kerf. The narrowest is 1.2mm. They are used for cutting glass, ceramics, stone, and resin composites. Conventional jewelers' saw blades generally are readily available in sizes 8/0 which is 0.15mm (0.0063") thick by 0.33mm (0.0126") wide with 34 teeth per cm (84 TPI) through #8 which is 0.50mm (0.0197") thick by 1.14mm (0.0440") wide with 28 TPI.  As with jig and coping saw blades, jeweler's saw blades come in a wide variety of teeth styles and blade hardness. You can buy blades with rounded back edges to facilitate making turning cuts and blades with skip-teeth and blades that are lubricated and blades that are unlubricated. (Blade lubrication is required.) There are even "mono-tooth" jeweler's saw blades which present a continuous spiraled cutting edge to the work rather than a toothed edge.

 

While I have never done "research testing" on sawing very fine wire, it would seem to me to be little different than sawing thicker gauge wire with the same technique. Actually, the rule for jeweler's saw blades is three teeth spanning thickness of the material cut. As you noted, if the wire to be cut was smaller than the blade spacing, when you tried to saw it, the wire would fall between the teeth points and just roll back and forth as you tried to saw it, but in this application, the wire is wound round and round a drill bit shaft mandrel and each turn is laid up against the previous one so that a continuous "service" (or wrapping) of wire around the mandrel would be presented to the saw blade. In this case, I believe it would be the length of the wire service on the mandrel and not the thickness of each individual turn of the wire that would be critical. Of course, as I said before, the finer the wire gets, the less critical is the "cleanness" of the end cuts to the soldering results.

 

An alternative to the jeweler's saw for cutting rings on a mandrel is a thin ceramic abrasive disk on a rotary tool. This method is used, I believe, when rings are cut from the wire-wound mandrels in production ring-making machines. It may take a hand steadier than mine, but it can be done. 

With respect to wrapping the wire around a drill bit shaft employed as a mandrel, there is a specific jeweler's tool designed for use in wrapping wire that is known as a "jump ring mandrel." (The small rings we encounter in ship modeling re properly called "jump rings" in jeweler's nomenclature.) These mandrels come in sets of various diameter and also in individual stepped-diameter versions. These mandrels have a handle and the mandrel shaft is usually cut with a notch along its length and sometimes a notch at its end, the latter to hold the end of the wire fixed while the wire is wrapped around the mandrel and the former to permit sawing the wire in the manner, I've described above without cutting into the mandrel shaft itself. 

(See: Search: 27 results found for "jump ring mandrels" — Otto Frei)  For the truly tool-addicted modeler, there is even a pricey Foredom flex-shaft rotary tool powered machine for the automated production of jump rings. (See: Durston 1309 The Complete Jump Ringer | OttoFrei.com — Otto Frei)

 

 

 

I'll add a bit of general information about using the jeweler's saw in case some forum readers are unfamiliar with the use of this saw which I consider a near-essential ship modeling tool. I've found it interesting that I've seen very little discussion of jeweler's saws (sometimes called "piercing saws") on this forum. Perhaps that's because they look very much like ordinary coping saws and folks who don't know the difference never notice them. Working with any sort of metal sheet in modeling sizes is going to require one of these saws and their productive use does demand something of a learning curve. They are a specific tool that is not duplicated by other tools. It may look like a coping saw, and one might correctly think it is a sort of scroll saw, but not realize a powered scroll saw cannot do what this hand saw can do (at least not without breaking a huge number of blades along the way!)  A "jeweler's saw" is not the same as a "coping saw." The mechanism for holding the blade ends and for tensioning the blade are different, precluding the use of one type of saw for the other type of blade and vice versa. The jeweler's saw demands a very rigid frame which is designed to produce very fine controlled cuts. The coping saw is intended for cutting wood and no provision is made for its cutting metal. On the other hand, the jeweler's saw is primarily intended for cutting metal, but will also cut wood and plastics.

 

Below are pictures of a traditional "old school" adjustable jeweler's saw frame, sometimes called a "German style frame," (top photo) and three more modern non-adjustable-frame style jeweler's saws (second and third photos.) A quality adjustable-frame saw will set you back about $25, but the other modern ones, made of "space age" metals, are priced beginning at around $100. (There are lots of really cheap adjustable-frame saws out there. Don't waste your money on these. The frame members must be inflexible... like a quarter of an inch square and of good steel.) The saw frames come in different sizes to accommodate different use requirements with deeper frames for making cuts deeper in the center of a large work piece. Whichever style frame one might buy is purely a matter of personal preference and wallet size, although. as always, buying the best you can afford is the cheapest purchase in the end. I prefer the old-school style of saw not only because I don't have any need to appreciate the advantages, if any, of the whiz-bang modern models, and am cheap, but also because the adjustable frame saw, in which the blade is tensioned by resting the  top extension bar end on the bench top at the edge of the bench and pulling down on the handle and then tightening the bar adjusting set screw knob, will permit you to mount shorter broken lengths of saw blade in the saw frame which affords a considerable savings in blade expense. These extremely fine light blades break easily and often, particularly until the user acquires some finesse in using them.

 

For those who might want to learn more about the use of this very handy and relatively inexpensive tool, this YouTube video is a good primer on sawing with a jeweler's saw: 

 

Grobet Swiss Made Jewelers Sawframes-Adjustable or Fixed Frame — Otto Frei

 

Knew Concepts Jewelers Precision Aluminum Sawframes with Cam Tension & — Otto Frei

 

Amazon.com: Pepe Tools Haymaker Jewelers Saw Frame by Lion Punch Forge, Made in USA (Green) : Tools & Home Improvement

 

  Ultimate Guide To The Jewelers Saw (And Jewelers Saw Blades) - Rock Seeker

 

Jewelers-Saw-Blade-Sizes-Sheet1.pdf

Edited October 18, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Toolmaker]

14 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

Nothing screams "1960's" like a polyester resin-covered hatch cover coffee table on an avocado green shag carpet. Today's kids just wouldn't get it.   

 

 

Those heady days when folks continued the carpeting up the side of the bath!

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, Toolmaker said:

Those heady days when folks continued the carpeting up the side of the bath!

And around the base of the toilet bowl. We kidded a buddy of mine no end back in those days. His wife had the whole bathroom covered in plush from the carpet to the matching plush toilet seat and tank covers and she made him and any friends he brought home sit down to use the john so not a drop would defile her precious "fuzzy" bathroom. He was the butt of a lot of "squatting to pee" jokes, for sure!