Help for blocks with hoop required.

[Tony28]

Can’t find out how to do this. Siezing rope fine, but how do you make the loop to attach to the brass deck rods? I know how you make full scale strops but you’d make a continuous loop by splicing the rope. Not possible at this scale. What trickery is this! 

[allanyed]

Hi Tony

What vessel is this?  Depending on the vessel you are building things could vary but I don't think any blocks were ever externally stropped with a metal rod.  The pics look like this might be a schooner versus an 18th century ship or similar.  If that is the case and it is before the time of internally stropped blocks I believe they would be stropped with rope but if internally stropped as I believe was started in the second half of the 19th century  they would probably have a metal strap inside the shell, not outside.  There would likely be a traveler or ring attached to the strop so the ring or the traveler would ride the horse.  Examples follow from Chapelle's  American Fishing Schooners, pages 463 and 464 which also show the requisite fairleads.

Do your blocks  actually only have one hole in them like the sketch you posted?   😗

Allan

 

[wefalck]

You don't mention the scale, but it is possible to make simplified long-splices by pulling the ends through each other with the help of e.g. a hypodermic needle as marlin-spike. You then dab the splice in varnish and roll it between your fingers. Then you basically proceed with full-scale practice and tie the strop around the block and the ring on the traveller. The splice will disappear under the seizing. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by wefalck

[modeller_masa]

 

I guess you are making Bluenose from Amati.

This book may help your understanding.

 

 

https://www.amatimodel.com/en/models-amati-classic/product-bluenose-b1447.html

 

These are examples by Amati.

Edited December 4, 2023 by modeller_masa

[Tony28]

Yes, I’m making bluenose, not bluenose 2. It’s my first model. They are 1:100 scale. Tiny! 
 

the blocks have one hole. I need to do exactly as in the diagram, I just don’t know how. A single rope with two ends so not sure how to make it a loop to go over the brass rod on the deck. (The photo shows this but it’s not my build)  I can sieze the rope fine, just can’t get to that stage. How do you make this little loop? Not sure I’m being very clear tbh. 
 

don’t see a possibility to start splicing. The thread is so small. Dunno, guess anything is possible but I’m not sure how. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Tony28

[John Fox III]

Tony,

If I understand it correctly, take a piece of rope thread and seize it around the block for a short length, cut off one end of the rope thread,then wrap the other end around a drill bit shank that matches the diameter of the brass rod, then seize it towards the block. Hope that is what will help you.

Anchor's A Weigh!

John Fox III

[Tony28]

5 minutes ago, John Fox III said:

Tony,

If I understand it correctly, take a piece of rope thread and seize it around the block for a short length, cut off one end of the rope thread,then wrap the other end around a drill bit shank that matches the diameter of the brass rod, then seize it towards the block. Hope that is what will help you.

Anchor's A Weigh!

John Fox III

Yes! I think that’ll do it. 
will try this tomorrow and let you know how it goes! 
 

Thanks John! 

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, modeller_masa said:

These are examples by Amati.

I would find a more reliable source which is based on actual practice such as Chapelle et al to confirm or correct their interpretations.  For example the line runs under the horse,  which would never work, rather than to the block.   

 

Allan

Edited December 4, 2023 by allanyed

[wefalck]

If you don't dare to take on splicing, you can also just make ring with an overhand-knot, put the block in and a pin for keeping the eye open at the other end. You then start the seizing with a series of half-hitches until you reached the desired length of the seizing. Then you pull on the loose ends of the strop to shorten it to the desired length. Fix the seizing with a dab of varnish or paint and trim the loose ends of the strop and the seizing respectively.

 

On a real ship the stropping would have been done in situ, but on a model it would be better to do the stropping off the boat with the ring slipped over the traveller and only then to install the traveller.

 

[David Lester]

Hi Tony,

My method is similar to John's but I do it with one seizing. I make a figure-of-eight with the line and do a regular seizing in the centre. I slide the seizing along until one of the loops is just a bit bigger than the block, put the block in and snug the seizing up. Then I draw the second loop until it's just a bit bigger than a drill bit that is the same size as I want the loop to be, put the drill bit in the loop and draw the two ends of the line until everything is snug. A dab of glue, cut the two ends off and it's done.

David

[Tony28]

Thank you all!!!! 
 

Fantastic responses and very helpful. 
 

will crack on with this tomorrow now I know what I’m doing! 

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, Tony28 said:

I need to do exactly as in the diagram, I just don’t know how. A single rope with two ends so not sure how to make it a loop to go over the brass rod on the deck. (The photo shows this but it’s not my build)  I can sieze the rope fine, just can’t get to that stage. How do you make this little loop? Not sure I’m being very clear tbh. 

 

Nice work! Your edges are crisp and your finishing is excellent. It appears that you are simply pushing up against the limits of what can be done with your kit at its scale. In real life, a shackle would slide on the sheet horse (metal bar) and the shackle would hold the block which would have an internal metal strop with a tab with a hole through which the shackle pin would run. In this case, the kit manufacturer has anachronistically "mixed apples and oranges." There would not have been rope-stropped blocks on a Banks schooner of Bluenose's period. You'll just have to dance with the gal ya' brought and "fake it." 

 

Perhaps the easiest way to accomplish the task is to take a length of thread and tie it first around the block, forming the strop on the block. Tie off the "strop" with two or three half-hitches going in the same direction at the bottom of the block. (If your "one-holed" blocks are like most kit blocks, the hole will be at one end of the block. Tie your "strop knots" at the end of the block which is farthest away from the end closest to the hole so that the run of the line through the block will look correct.)  Leave the bitter end of the knotted thread free for the moment.  You will now have a block which is "stropped" by the knotted thread.

 

Now the other end of the thread with the block attached and tie that end closely around the sheet horse with two or three half-hitches just as you did the "strop loop" previously. You will want to tie the stropped block as closely as possible to the sheet horse in order to simulate a block fastened closely to the sheet horse with a seizing. The block should not appear as if it is on a pendant attached to the block. When you tie the half hitches for the knots holding the stropped block to the sheet horse, tie as many half hitches as you need (It shouldn't be more than two or three) around the standing part of the line until they fetch up against the side of the last half hitch tied on the block strop end.  The appearance, if done correctly, will be of the stropped block attached to the sheet horse with a short series of half hitch knots spiraling up between the block and the sheet horse. The shorter this distance, the more realistic it all will appear. Use as fine a thread as you can manage, as the half hitch knots will increase the diameter of the knotted rope between the block and the sheet horse. You may wish to experiment and use two turns of your thread around the block and around the sheet horse before tying the respective half hitches. This may mimic the appearance of a single thicker strop around the block and sheet horse with the half hitches around the connection between them appearing closer to the diameter of the doubled thread visible around the block and sheet horse. Some thickened paint, shellac, or surfacing putty can be applied between the doubled thread around the block and sheet horse to mimic the appearance of a single piece of rope.  When you have fastened the block to the sheet horse in this fashion, without cutting the two bitter ends of the thread, secure the knots, and the turns around the sheet horse and the block, for that matter, with a touch of thin shellac (two pound cut, i.e., "out of the can" if using prepared canned shellac) or thinned PVA glue and allow it to dry. When the shellac or glue has dried, cut off the two bitter ends of the thread as closely to the knots as possible with a sharp scissors or hobby knife. If the shellac or glue is dry, the knots will hold. If not, you run the risk of having one of your half hitches pop loose when the thread is cut and you won't have enough free thread at the end to tie it again, with will require you to start from scratch and do it over again. 

 

This is the technique that appears to have been used in the photo above. Note that the thickness of the thread used has created a thicker "seizing" around the throat of the "strop" between the block and the sheet horse than appears realistic. Use of a thinner thread, perhaps using the "double turn" method mentioned above, would have perhaps resulted in a thinner "throat" between the block and the sheet horse. Because the object of this exercise is to "fool the eye," the less prominent this attachment method can be, the better. What is wanted is that a viewer's eye will not be drawn to it and it will not get noticed, in which case, the viewer's brain will simply "fill in the blanks" with a correct assumption of what it thinks should be there. 

 

If that approach isn't challenging enough at 1:100 scale, another comes to mind which, although requiring a bit more work and perhaps skill, would produce a more period-correct appearing un-stropped block. You could make up an "eye bolt" out of suitably-sized wire, drill a hole in the end of your block closest to the "sheave hole," but not so deep that it runs through the "sheave hole," (or drill the hole at an angle so you miss the "sheave hole") and cement the shank of the bent wire "eye bolt" into the wooden block body. This will simulate a period correct wooden-shelled iron-framed block. Use something that holds well, like cyanoacrylate or epoxy to glue the shank in the hole.  A faux "eye bolt" shank is best made by twisting the two ends of a length of wire tightly around a drill bit shank of the desired size and then removing the bit and cutting off the shank of twisted wire at the desired length. This results in a "spiraled" shank which will hold better than a smooth piece of wire when glued in the hole and provides an "eye" that will not bend open or need to be soldered to prevent its doing so. The drawback, however, is that the twisted shank requires drilling a larger hole to accommodate it, which may or may not be possible in a small block. Care should be taken to ensure that the eye is correctly oriented when glued into the block so that the when the block is attached to the sheet horse with a ring between them, the lead of the sheet running through the block's "sheave hole" will be fair. Once the eyebolt is firmly set into the block, its neck can be bent so that it appears to lead fair from the block, if necessary.

 

You now have a block with an "eye" at its "top end" (closest to the drilled "sheave hole." and it is then easy to make a small ring of suitably-sized wire which will fit through the "eye" on the block and around the sheet horse bar, just as the shackle does in the prototype and the drawings.  You can then "blacken" the "iron work" with a "blackening" agent (for copper or brass wire, liver of sulphur or the equivalent proprietary product) or with black paint. This method doesn't require that it be made as unobtrusive as possible because it is more realistically detailed than the knotted method described previously. 

 

One last point to mention is that, from an engineering standpoint, perhaps you may want to give a bit of thought to how strongly built you might want this (these?) block to sheet horse connection(s) to be. The sheet horse should be well-glued in place and, if a bent copper or brass ring is used to hold the block onto the sheet horse, that ring will be the "weak link in the chain." One of the most frequent catastrophic injuries ship models suffer is some sort of impact on the extremities of the rigging which is mechanically transferred to some structural attachment point which then breaks. You might question whether the ring connecting the block to the horse should be strong enough to handle the stress load of sudden tension from an impact that causes the sheet to yank hard on the block.  A strong connection would usually mean soldering the ends of the ring together, which would be difficult to do if the sheet horse were already installed on the model. On the other hand, if the ring's ends aren't soldered, any pulling force on the block coming from the sheet is probably going to bend the ring's ends apart and pull the ring off the sheet horse. While "all the books" say such rings should be soldered for strength and appearance, leaving the ring's ends unsoldered would actually serve to prevent greater damage to the rigging structure in the event of a mishap. Reattaching the block to the sheet horse by bending a ring back into alignment is certainly a much easier than to broken sparts and rigging line elsewhere.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bob Cleek