Electric sander

[Ron Gagner]

will be buying a elec sander is a beld sander enough or would a combo belt and disc be more usefull'

Ron

[mtaylor]

I think it's a matter of your choice.   I have a combo unit and works well.   It's not top of the line but it does what I want.  

[Roger Pellett]

Small disc sanders range from the single (high) speed models to the variable speed state of the art models made by Byrnes Model Machines with many in between at all price points.  All are highly useful.

 

I assume that the belt sander that you mention is a stationary one, not a hand held model.  In my opinion belt sanders are way to aggressive for fine work and have little direct application to model making.

 

I have both disc sanders and a stationary belt sander.  I use the disc sanders all the time.  The belt sander is only used to grind and sharpen cutting tools for my metal lathe.

 

Roger

[KeithAug]

20 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

In my opinion belt sanders are way to aggressive for fine work and have little direct application to model making.

I have a combined belt and disc sander. I don't think I have ever used the belt sander for model making. The disc sander is single speed and I constantly find myself wishing that I could turn the speed down. I am thinking of buying a variable speed disc sander and relegating the combined machine to non modelling work.

Edited December 31, 2023 by KeithAug

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I found that a relatively narrow belt sander was useful for general shop work (furniture, metalwork), but have only used it for one application in model making - setting the table at a slight angle from the belt to adjust the angle of 2 deck cabins (made from solid blocks) where they meet the the fore and aft decks, respectively, on my Gorch Fock restoration.  The builder had the face of the higher decks at a slight angle, as the hull had been cut from a single block of pine ... so I imagine that if shaping a block for a hull from scratch, the 'hogging' of material (after band sawing) would be made much easier with a belt sander.  It was certainly helpful shaping pieces for repro wooden dolls of the Colonial era.  I'm seeing some advantage to a solid hull versus P.O.B. - but each has its own plusses and minuses.

 

  I think that the most useful wood modeling powered tools are a scroll saw (makes cutting-out curved pieces from stock a breeze), a mini table saw (super useful for straight cuts from various model stock - as a full size table saw is both overkill and too dangerous for small work) and a variable speed rotary tool (foot controlled, and there are very many things that can mount on the rotary tool for a particular job on the model) ...  These are my 'go to' machines of choice.  Obviously, higher priced quality tools are best in the long run, but if money is tight (many of us have Admirals to report to), you can get less expensive alternatives that will work, as long as you are aware of some limitations.

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

I think that the most useful wood modeling powered tools are a scroll saw (makes cutting-out curved pieces from stock a breeze), a mini table saw (super useful for straight cuts from various model stock - as a full size table saw is both overkill and too dangerous for small work) and a variable speed rotary tool (foot controlled, and there are very many things that can mount on the rotary tool for a particular job on the model) ...  These are my 'go to' machines of choice.  Obviously, higher priced quality tools are best in the long run, but if money is tight (many of us have Admirals to report to), you can get less expensive alternatives that will work, as long as you are aware of some limitations.

Excellent advice about powered modeling tools! To this in fourth place after the above mentioned three, I'd add a quality stationary disk sander and I'd say move heaven and earth to buy one of the new Byrnes 4" variable speed disk sanders. There are lots of cheaper alternatives on the market, but the mass of the disk and the variable speed set the Byrnes variable speed model light years ahead of the rest. If that's just too costly, you should at least get the regular Byrnes 5" fixed speed disk sanders. Nobody I know of makes a better fence and table system on a disk sander than Byrnes. 

[Jaager]

The machine that are useful to you will very much depend on the jobs that they are needed for.

 

My Byrnes 5" disk sander is an integral part of my process.  I need a lot of precise end meets end joints that have zero room for play. I have never needed anything more aggressive than 220 grit and even that chews thru narrow stock quickly.  I need A LOT of light at the action point. I do not know if a slower speed would be of much help.   The key step is with the feed rate of the stock. The mass of the 5" disk does not mess around - it takes a while to power down - the dust collection is as effective - better even  - than with any other machine that I use.  Were I using plastic as a material, the variable speed 4" would be vital to avoid melting.  With wood, finger force rate can control heat generation.

 

I have a combo 1" belt/5" disk machine. Mine is branded Dremel, but all of the ones that I have seen look the same.  I find it noxious to use.  For the disk - the table is poorly designed and fabricated.  Dust collection is a joke.  The belt is too narrow and the tracking is flimsy.  It takes being overly generous to call what it has "a table".  Dusk collection is an unfulfilled wish.  It is useless for inside curves and the wrong geometry for outside curves.  A drum is better at doing both.  There is a single contact point with a round drum.  Collateral loss is limited by the round versus a flat grit face.   I guess for other types of woodworking, this could be a useful tool.  Ship modeling involves working with complex curves and this limits our degrees of freedom for useful machines.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

Our craft (to me it’s not just a hobby) is so broad that the the tools required are largely dependent on the ship that you have decided to model.  The most often used tool in my workshop is my drill press.  While I seldom use it for the model itself, I often use it to fabricate Theo jigs and fixtures necessary to fabricate the parts for the model.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

9 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Our craft (to me it’s not just a hobby) is so broad that the the tools required are largely dependent on the ship that you have decided to model.  The most often used tool in my workshop is my drill press.  While I seldom use it for the model itself, I often use it to fabricate Theo jigs and fixtures necessary to fabricate the parts for the model.

  I'll second you on that, Roger.  I have a regular sized bench-top drill press, and a 2-axis cross vise is mounted on the table (that cranks in the vertical axis).  I can drill and mill with it.  For modeling purposes, a miniature drill press would be nice ... maybe someday.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Actually ...  my Unimat can 'convert' to a mini drill press by putting a drill chuck on the spindle, unbolting the head stock, installing the vertical bar, mounting the head stock on the bar with levered pinion for downstroke, putting the milling table on the tool slide, and topping that with a mini vise.  Its sort-of a pain, and to go back to a lathe one must reverse the process.  Also, the Unimat is typically underpowered.

 

  "All in one" type of tools have a certain amount of gimmickry involved - a friend of mine had a 'Shop Smith', that could be re-configured (with some fiddling) into a wood lathe, table saw, drill/mill press, spindle shaper, belt sander, jointer or a spindle shaper ... only one type of work at a time.  The other example of "overkill" was the PBS 'The New Yankee Workshop' with Norm Abrams (Naahm) ... I mean this guy had every conceivable power tool for wood working in existence - multiple table saws, jointers, planers, biscuit joiners, mortisers, band saws, lathes, spindle shapers plus all sorts of specialty jigs and fixtures.  THEN, after machining virtually every part by one machine or another - he'd pick up a chisel (good heaven's, a HAND tool) and say something like,  "To clean up this corner, I'll need a couple taps with a chisel."  Then, tap-tap - and the hand tool was put down.

 

  More to my liking was 'The Woodwright's Shop' with Roy Underhill.  The man has a respect for hand work and traditional tools ... with occasional power tools used - one only needs a few.

[JerryTodd]

I have one of those Harbor Freight belt/disk bench sanders.  I needed a lot of tightening and adjustment at first, and is due for some of that again, but it does the job for modeling just fine.  It's a bit weak for cabinet work though.

The biggest drawback with these "cheap" sanders is the table in front of the disc - they tend to be weak, unstable, floppy, and inaccurate.  Mine would always creep onto the disc until it ate the edge off, no matter how much I tightened it.
Basically, unless you're ready to practically rebuild the tool, stay away from the very "cheap" one, cause they are very cheap.

 

It's to the right in the pic

Edited January 1 by JerryTodd

[Jaager]

7 hours ago, JerryTodd said:

I have one of those Harbor Freight belt/disk bench sanders. 

I have one also.  The belt is 4x36.  I have never mounted the disk sander.  The belt is useful for grubbing away the bulk of wood for bevels for frames at the bow quarter and aft quarter.  I work a stack of frames in the +/_  1.5" thick range of thickness.  The table is only helpful for a small part.  Most is freehand.   There is a vac hose socket at the back.  It is in a piece of sheet metal that is so thin that the vac pulls the sheet metal into the moving belt.  I have to use steel corner braces to shim it out.  For the flat, the vac is only partially effective.  For working inside curves, I use the rounding end at the top.  A side funnel for the vac gets some of the dust, but most of it goes airborne.  The work space become drifts and dunes of sawdust.  It is epic.

 

A set of very sharp gouges would probably be a slower but much less messy way to debulk and free my frames now that I consider it. 

[Daniel Kimmer]

I purchased one of these from Menards for real cheap money and it serves me well for years until I purchased the Byrnes Model Machine 4 inch variable speed. It depends on how much you think you will use and need a sander. The Byrnes sander is nearly 9 times the price and it is worth the money but again how much do you plan to use the sander.