Blue holly: can it be saved?

[bruce d]

Some pieces in my stash of holly have started to discolour, a bluish tinge on surfaces that had previously been creamy white.  It appeared over the winter.

About half the stash is affected.  All came from trees cut in in my garden four years ago and have been stored in identical conditions.  I have separated the affected pieces.

I assume this is the dreaded blue mold that crops up in holly: is there anything I can do to save the wood?  As it stands I don't know if the rest of the holly will also discoulour in the future. My plans for HMS Berwick rely heavily on this wood so any help would be appreciated. 

Thanks, 

Bruce 

[Jaager]

I harvested and cut into billets some Holly from a cousin's land.   When I rip cut it water almost squirted from the end as the blade pushed it.  This told me two two things:  Holly contains a lot of water.  Holly pore channels are highways.   Blue mold will out race you unless the Holly is harvested in Winter and unless the cut ends are sealed and the wood immediately goes into a kiln.  I did not wish to case harden my supply, so I set the temp in my foam box to be just a bit higher than what I thought a fungus could survive.

The strain of Holly on my cousin's wood lot is yellow, not snow white.

 

From my traditionalist perspective, you are not in trouble at all!

No species of wood used for an actual ship was snow white,  so the color of Holly that is sold does not fit a ship model.

The yellow - or blue - or grey (which is what some of my infected stock is) is actually more appropriate.

The Blue Mold fungus does not affect the structural integrity of the wood.  Holly is neigh on to perfect for us.  It works for part quite well and for planking, nothing else bends quite as well. The grey or yellow would closely match the color of an actual deck - Sun bleached and salt water abuse.  For tar foot prints and drips from standing rigging additional color is needed.  The snow white decks planked with marquetry Holly is flash and not realistic.

Holly readily takes a dye.  Perfect for black wales.  The blue will probably want a dye if you paint with wood.  Alcohol based aniline dyes -  I do not see that the additional depth from water based aniline dyes would show at model scales.  It would just add a grain swelling problem and a longer drying time.

 

Unless you are dead set on having it be snow white - you are golden.   Holly over here is now absurdly expensive.  I suspect sawyers trash or burn infected or off color Holly.  Would that I could contact one and take what he thinks is trash off of his hands.

[Bob Cleek]

I have no experience with "blue mold" holly, but I've dealt quite successfully with mold on other wood species by bleaching it with a solution of oxalic or citric acid and water. Oxalic acid is sold in crystal form in paint stores as "wood bleach." (Don't buy "teak bleach" or other such products. Just get plain oxalic acid crystals marketed as "wood bleach" 'and follow the instructions on the container.) As I said, I haven't ever bleached moldy holly, but, to one degree or another, I've had success with bleaching other wood species. Oxalic acid wood bleach is relatively inexpensive, so you won't be out much if it doesn't work and you'll always have it to try on other species that you want to bleach back to "just cut" color. Do wear nitrile gloves or the equivalent when working with oxalic acid solutions. It's not particularly dangerous, but prolonged exposure to skin can cause acid burns and soaking your fingers in the stuff, which will first attack the soft flesh beneath your fingernails, but only start hurting several hours after exposure, is one of those things you'll probably only ever do once in your life. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )

Edited April 14 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

14 hours ago, Jaager said:

It works for part quite well and for planking, nothing else bends quite as well.

I agree that holly is indeed limited as to where it can be used effectively, but one of the things I love to make from holly are frames for ships boats and sometimes the planking as well.  If soaked for a few minutes in water, they bend like paper and hold their shape once dry.

Allan

 

[Dr PR]

Bob,

 

On my first ship (a minesweeper) we used oxalic acid when holystoning the deck. It bleached the wood to a very light color. It should work well to remove fungal stains from wood, and it definitely will kill the organisms!

 

I would be sure to wash the wood thoroughly afterward to remove any remaining acid before using it on a model.

[bruce d]

Well all this is very encouraging.  I was under the impression that blue mold on holly was 'the end'.

 

So, I'm off to buy some acid. 

 

Many thanks, 

Bruce 

[Dr PR]

Blue mold acid trip!

[allanyed]

Definitely worth a try Phil, but need to be careful to avoid------------->

Edited April 14 by allanyed

[bruce d]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

but need to be careful to avoid------------->

Far out and solid, Man.

[Bob Cleek]

On 4/11/2024 at 10:40 PM, Dr PR said:

I would be sure to wash the wood thoroughly afterward to remove any remaining acid before using it on a model.

Definitely. Any acidic residue in or on the wood is to be avoided. A mild soap solution, dishwashing liquid, or the like, should be sufficient. For the particularly obsessive types, a short dip in a baking soda and water solution should neutralize any acid, I expect. 

[Jaager]

Unless the color is not appropriate, using it 'As Is' will work;   no treatment is necessary.    If darker is the goal, a wood dye will do the job.

Blue Mold is not like the fungus that turned a trunk of Apple that I had not prepared correctly into meal. 

 

Oxalic acid does work.  I used it on a door of an old book case, Took it back to looking like fresh cut wood.  It was an antique - extreme refinishing was a bad idea - destroyed any value,  but the stuff worked.

 

As far as I can tell, Blue Mold is benign except for the color thing.  If only we could save all of the infected Holly and off-white Holly from going to the breakers and buy it.

[bruce d]

Many thanks for all the wise words, I really didn't think there was a future for the affected wood.

I will post an update when I've tried the acid treatment.  A bit of trial and error is needed but it's worth it. 

 

Bruce 

[Richard Braithwaite]

 

I sliced up a substantial holly log about 30 years ago. The log was 9 inches in diameter and I cut it into 1 inch thick planks. I sealed the ends with aluminium yacht primer (because I had a tin lying around...) and stacked the planks separated with 1" pine stock for drying. The planks did distort a bit during the drying process and a mould did develop over the surface during the first year (while the sap was still wet). I also remember getting quite worried that my lovely wood would be wrecked! However, as far as I remember, once it had dried I was able to brush the dead mould off the planks. 30 years later the holly is a lovely creamy white throughout. So Im sure yours will be fine in a few months time.

 

I still have most of it left, awaiting a suitable project. The photo below shows one of the plank with a chunk taken out to make some of the finer bits of my trireme model (e.g. the Trierarchs chair https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21958-trireme-olympias-by-richard-braithwaite/page/4/ ) , where something harder and more precise than lime was needed.

Holly is just about my favorite wood for model boat making. I think the grain does a passable imitation of oak in miniature and it can be carved as fine as paper if needed.

 

Edited May 7 by Richard Braithwaite

[Jaager]

Richard @Richard Braithwaite,

When I billoted my Holly, the near stream of water being pushed out of the cut end by the bandsaw blade told me that Holly has water tubes that communicate readily. 

Your paint MAY have saved the interior from the Blue Mold, but I would not bet any money that I could not afford to lose on that being the situation.  But, even so, that would not decrease the value of the wood for model ship building.  The structural integrity of the Holly is not affected by that particular mold as far as I can see.  The color change is more in tune with ship building wood than is the snow white Holly that has become so expensive.  Robbins egg blue would be weird,  but Holly readily takes up alcohol based aniline dyes, so that is easily fixed.