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Pinas by rcweir - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section - Dutch 17th Century ship


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This is a new kit by Kolderstok,  a Dutch company that specializes in a category especially appealing to me:  17th Dutch vessels.

 

"Pinas" is a ship type, and the prime reference for modelers is a lengthy treatise on Dutch shipbuilding practices, written in 1671 by Nicolaes Witsen, in which he uses the pinas as his example for all aspects of construction.    Fortunately,  Ab Hoving has given us a new version of Witsen, organized coherently, heavily annotated, and in English, in his Nicolaes Witsen and Shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age, College Station: Texas A&M Press, 2012.  

 

This  model was designed by  Matthias Noback (it's the first Kolderstok kit not designed by Hans van Nieuwkoop),  and you can find a blog of his design effort elsewhere on the web.  Additionally,  while there are no other build logs for this kit on MSW yet, there are a few others out there which have been a great help to me (and thank goodness for Google translate!)

 

My kit arrived on 12 April,  in good order, after a lengthy journey through the Dutch and US postal systems.   It was carefully packed, and everything on the inventory list was in the box, and in excellent condition.   All of the wood, except for the dowels, is basswood.    That includes all the laser cut sheets - there is no plywood.   The accessories appear to me to be all high quality - the blocks look great and the brass cannon are beautiful.   Along with the kit I ordered a full set of Kolderstok paints.  I didn't get the premium "luxury rope" rigging line, figuring that my existing stash of line would cover my needs.

 

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That's all for this post.  The next one might also happen today, and will cover some pre-build decisions and samples.

 

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Rats,  I put this in the wrong section.   Which makes me cross, of course!   I hope a friendly admin can move it to the 1501-1750 kit section!

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Posted (edited)

While I was waiting for the kit to arrive,  I spent time making some choices for my build.   I quickly decided that it would be stained, but basswood can be blotchy and I didn't want that.  Plus, I needed to pick a specific color.    For a large scale like 1:50, treenails are certainly called for, so I had to decide about how to do them too (as well as bolts).    

 

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These are my stain samples.   The upper topmost is cabela boxwood, then Alaska yellow cedar, and basswood is the widest piece.  (At the time, I was still considering the possibility of milling my own planks rather than using the kit-supplied basswood.)   All samples were sanded (a little haphazardly) and then given a wash coat of 1/2 lb cut shellac.   The lower half of each has a coat of satin WOP, and then each vertical panel has one of the stains that I was testing.   After a lot of ruminating,  I choose the bottom right:  Minwax Golden Oak on top of a coat of WOP.    The WOP makes the stain more of a glaze, which ought to minimize blotching, assuming I do a decent job of preparation.     I intend this to define how I do all of the staining:   sand to 320 before installation,  wash coat of 1/2 lb shellac, then glue up.   When I'm ready for the top coat, the WOP goes on followed by the stain.    I'd do the poly before installation, too, but I'm afraid of compromising the glue joints.

 

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Next, I had to decide about treenails  (which I have no prior experience with).  The two questions were (a) size and (b) material.    I had no desire to make them with a drawplate, so the material question quickly boiled down to a choice between bamboo and birch toothpicks.    I tried both, and birch was an easy winner - the cell size of end grain bamboo is just too large to suit me.   I did make a little sample using black poly fishing line, too, but that didn't go well - I don't know how to get it truly flush with the wood surface.   I'm happy with birch - good birch toothpicks are easy to find, adapt to any size hole I want to use, take my finish well, and they're quite easy to install in volume.    For size,  I tried .8, .9 and 1.0mm, and I think I'll go with .8, at least for the interior planking.

 

For bolts, I hoped to find little nails that were suitable, but all I could find were more than 2mm at the head,  and I wanted something more like 1.5, max.    What I've chosen, then, is to use solid 14 gauge copper house wire, which is about 1.6mm.   You can see three of them, uncolored, near the middle of the top image above this note.  I'll color them black for the model, of course.

 

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The other big consideration I had to resolve before starting was how to make the keel, because that impacts how the garboard strakes look.   The kit provides for a two part keel made from two 4mm pieces of wood, with the rabbet formed at the junction of the two pieces.   The middle image above is from the instructions.    I think the angle between the garboard strake and the next plank to it is much too steep.    The top image is an illustration from Witsen,  where the angle between the planks is much shallower and that's the look I want for my model.   So,  what I did was to plane the top kit-supplied keel board to 3mm and replace the bottom keel piece with my own 5mm board.    Thus, the finished keel size hasn't changed but the rabbet is, effectively about 1-1/2 mm higher.    The bottom photo shows my keel (upside down) with a sample garboard strake temporarily positioned.    About the only thing I'm not totally happy about with my change is that I wish my rabbet was more triangular in section. But in all other respects I think this change is going to be successful.

 

That's all for now.   Progress from now on will be pretty slow, I'm afraid.  I still have a day job, and even without that excuse my progress is not speedy.

 

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Edited by rcweir
Remove a dup image

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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5 hours ago, rcweir said:

Rats,  I put this in the wrong section.   Which makes me cross, of course!   I hope a friendly admin can move it to the 1501-1750 kit section!

 

Done!

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop

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I have this kit as well.  Recently received.  I don't know how far along you are and if my advice will be helpful.

 

I decided to dye the frames and keel with Trans Tint wood dye in alcohol.  Used brown and amber mix, giving it a 'golden oak' color.  I used the dye because it does not inhibit gluing.  Stain looks better but inhibits gluing, in my experience. 

 

While most of the wood is quality basswood, the planking in my kit was not.  I went to the hobby store and got a sheet of 1/16" Midwest basswood and cut the planks on my Byrnes Saw.  Better planks.  I will use boxwood above the wales and will stain those.

 

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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Thanks, Chuck, for that suggestion.   I hadn't thought of dye, and my past experience with dye is very limited.  But it might be just the thing.  I'll look into it immediately, before I take an irrevocable steps.     I'm not very far along; I have been working on a post bringing things up to date which I will try to get in today.     I'd love to see some pics of your model.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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I am working on fist futtock.  Will take some pics and IM them to you.  I am not great at build logs:  I can build a model or I can document the build...but not both.  When I try to document, the build gets stalled.

 

Another thing:  You need to use the paper template to assemble the first futtock to the floor timber for the end frames.  Once that whole assembly is done, you use the paper template to add/align the second futtock WITH THE FRAMES ATTACHED TO THE KEEL.  The floor/1st futt is easy because it lays flat on a table.  Adding the 2nd futt may be a bit harder.  SOLUTION:  I am finding there is an extra floor timber, 2 extra 1st futtocks and 2 extra 2nd futtocks.  I will assemble THAT flat on the table, then use that as my build template.  Pic to follow once I build.

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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Chuck,  you're at about the same place where I am.    It may be too late for me to post my update today - work has kind of elbowed the model off to the sidelines for a bit.   But I will get it in soon.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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After assembling the keel and stand, the next step is to assemble the floor timbers and lower futtocks for the forward and after frames.    This is a critical step: the shape of the rest of the hull depends on the accuracy with which these two assemblies are made.  The kit supplies a printed section of the hull and the instructions say to lay the three parts over their locations on the drawing, and glue it all up.  There are no other assembly aids to ensure the positions are correct.    

 

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To do this,  I started with a piece of tempered glass to have a dead flat, perfectly smooth working surface.   I taped the printed section onto the glass and then a sheet of mylar on top of it.   The floor timber was stuck to the mylar with double-sided tape over its location on the drawing.   On top of that timber I laid the two first futtocks and then carefully checked (with a small square) that each was in the right position over the drawing.   Then I stuck a number of wood blocks to the mylar at strategic points to make a jig that would hold the three frame pieces in place during glue up and - most importantly - to ensure that the second assembly was identical to the first.

 

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After both frame sections were glued up,  I temporarily clamped them to the keel and turned the structure upside down on the glass:   the tops of all four futtocks touched the glass and there was no wobble at all.    Comparing the two assemblies front to front showed that, within my ability to measure, they were identical.   But, when I compared them front to back there was about 1-½ mm difference at the turn of the bilge.  I thought about that for a while, but decided that it probably doesn't matter if the two sides differ slightly - the two sides are going to be constructed quite differently anyhow since one side is planked and the other just open frames.  The deck beams, of course, might have a different opinion - we'll see.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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In the pictures below you can see the two frames glued up on the keel.   The keel was laser etched to help with alignment,  and I was careful during the glue up to ensure the frames were perpendicular to the keel and level.   When the glue dried I flipped the assembly over and ran the spider test again - i.e. made sure that all four futtocks were touching the glass.

 

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Then I glued in all of the other floor timbers.   The kit comes with four spacing "combs" that are used to ensure that frames are spaced exactly right.   With the combs, which can be used at any convenient point along the frames,  installing the remaining floor timbers is a simple task.

 

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That brings this log up to date with the state of my build.   I hope I get some time on it this weekend,  but it's not looking too promising at the moment.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Here is the wooden template, as mentioned.  I have built it up to the second futtock and ran a support piece across to prevent from snapping.  The bottom of the support piece is even to where the bottom of the orlop deck-beam ledge will be.

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Here, the template is temporarily attached to the partially complete hull (for demo purposes).  When I finally get around to adding second futt, I will use comb and dab of glue to hold template in place, and use micrometer to ensure bottom of ledge is even.

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Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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I like your jig.    I'm going to need something like that, too and it helps a lot to have these photos.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Once you get above the 2nd futtock, then you have 2 options: long upper timber and short upper timber.  I think they are almost the same length.  I have not decided whether I will put one on one side and one on the other OR short on both sides.  The longs will follow the lines of the short.

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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Posted (edited)

I think the taller ones go aft.   Here's a midships view of the pinas Witsen, (from Ab Hoving's "Plans Set for Modelers").   Speaking of those pieces, though, I am wondering how I will clean them up - they look so fragile. 

 

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Bob

Edited by rcweir
clean up the grammar

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

This weekend I completed two simple steps:  installed the garboard strakes and laid the initial planks on the port (completely planked) side.  Since both the tasks required the model to be inverted, I made a little MDF box that I could clamp the model to without putting any stress on the frame members.

 

The garboard strakes went in without difficulty.    Likewise with the planking: planking this model is about as simple as can be since the hull profile is completely uniform through the modeled section.  

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I am happy that my modified solution for the keel rabbet worked out; I think the resulting angle of the garboard strake with the adjacent plank  looks a lot more authentic than the kit's arrangement.

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A pinas's hull planks meet with scarfs rather than butts according to the drawings in Witsen (and possibly it's written down somewhere, but I don't have a reference).   Anyhow,  I did make one scarf as an experiment which is barely visible on the righthand photo above, between the two rightmost clips.  The joint came out well, but once the area was sanded,  the joint became invisible, so maybe I won't bother to do more.    I will probably make a sample piece next weekend and see if visibility is enhanced once it's stained.

 

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The next task is to install 17 more pairs of lower futtocks between the pairs already on either end of the model.  In preparation for that, a large activity this weekend was removing char.  The char's all gone now, and I've started dry-fitting the pieces into position - you can see them above.   The requirement is to have all the outer and inner surfaces of the futtocks in the same plane.   That will be achieved if they all sit snugly in the (temporary) comb jigs and the tops of all the futtocks are the same height.   Which, for me, is easier said than done.   Once I get ready to start using glue on them I will need to move very deliberately.   I'm not completely settled as to how I will handle the glue.  I've thought about painting thinned glue into the gaps after the pieces are in position, but I worry that will mess up the stain when I get to putting on the finish. So, I'm leaning towards glue first then install. And practicing a lot.  The thing is, this is something I have to do 34 times and any redoes will be unpleasant to perform.  (Plus, this problem will come again on the next level of framing.)

 

Not related to the glue up, but I realized at the end of the futtock de-charing party that I only have to clean half of the framing pieces up to display standards:  the port side of the model will be planked over, inside and out, so its frames just need to be prepared well enough to glue.

 

Thanks for looking and for any advice you might have on gluing in those futtocks.

 

Bob

 

 

Edited by rcweir
removed a couple of extraneous photos.

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Bob,

    I found the gluing process for the first futtocks to be relatively simple, if using wood glue.  A little dot of glue. or a little diluted glue, spread over about a half inch of the joint will work fine.  Once the futtocks are in, the joint is basically one solid piece of wood, fore and aft.  There is no real stress on the joint.  I actually put a very little dot at the top of the floor timber, one at the bottom of the futtock and one about the middle of the joint, then thinned it out.  The glue dries slow enough that you have plenty of time to position the futtocks into place as you want them.  :cheers:

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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Thanks!   I knew about the digital model, but had not seen the blog from Matthias.  I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Posted (edited)

The past weekend's work went well.   As Chuck had predicted earlier,  installing the first futtocks went quite smoothly.   Before gluing, I dry fit all of the pieces; made sure that the pieces were marked clearly; and that they slipped into place snugly, but without forcing (since I knew the wood would expand when pva was applied).   The port side was glued first: the frames to port will be completely covered, so boo-boos on the port side can be more easily tolerated.   In the end, I had one futtock to port that was about 1mm out of line, but all the others, including the entire starboard side, seemed essentially perfect.

 

IMG_4251.jpeg.899be46f0cd76ec2e727e717472a9705.jpegIMG_4252.jpeg.b0eb95b6f81f77991127a2a7053269d7.jpegIMG_4266.jpeg.1ad18d39271461e2f99a951cb035b4e6.jpeg

 

After that, I added six planks on the port side to cover those newly installed futtocks.   The new planks cover the turn of the bilge, so the frames had to be flattened to give each plank a flat landing area.  For flattening, I made a couple of sanding sticks that were just 1-2 mm narrower than the 7mm planks.   Nothing hard about it at all.   For visual interest I scarfed a couple of planks.

 

IMG_4270.jpeg.aab008c60202ec069f2e2090bab9579a.jpegIMG_4273.jpeg.e51212c4df9a78f87545c71f0f769330.jpegIMG_4275.jpeg.864e611d5c55217d8be89b4a962cf394.jpegIMG_4280.jpeg.d4f071ac1a9a3941f485ceeb71dd69e1.jpeg

 

And, of course,  I spent a considerable amount of time removing char from the next row of framing.    I've made a jig that I can use to install the first four futtocks of the next row at the corners of the model, similar to the way the last row was handled.  But I probably won't get time to glue any of them in until the weekend.

 

IMG_4287.jpeg.c6a3dc8a35c603b7e516e1d8a86d2aa3.jpegIMG_4285.jpeg.aa6894796b4c1046da9bec2582689aca.jpegIMG_4284.jpeg.eb14753d6b9db0de941cdcb5da630c95.jpeg

 

Thanks for visting,

Bob

 

 

Edited by rcweir
I always forget to nuke my unused pics before posting.

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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The weekend work started with installing the four corner upper futtocks, using the jig I put together last weekend.  The result was not so good - the planked side (port) was fine, but the two futtocks on the unplanked side were both tilted out slightly from the top of the lower futtocks.   So I removed those two offenders and abandoned my jig.  Instead, I clamped a couple of boards on the outside of the lower futtocks to give the same level of alignment help that the planked side provides inherently.   I made sure of the height by placing a comb where the bottom of the futtocks could rest against it.   The result of the second try was excellent:  the new structure, turned upside down, rested stably on all four "feet" and the visual alignment of the upper and lower futtocks seemed correct.

 

IMG_4312.jpeg.dfbb81695bb65599b99da0bd8cc776ed.jpeg

 

This is a good view of a misaligned futtock (though "good" is not the word I used first).IMG_4317.jpeg.203687cf38fedf03dc7bd2cfa8567f46.jpeg

 

IMG_4322.jpeg.f42955fdc91d21f2b706877e2e01ab82.jpegIMG_4326.jpeg.b1cab34ebb3c1b88b0425d570652cbc0.jpeg

 

Try #2 was easier and came out better.  Notice on the right hand side of the second picture above I'm installing the 2nd futtock from the end so that I can have glue on both sides, and better alignment guides.   

 

Next, I installed the beam shelves for the orlop deck beams, which was pretty straightforward.  Alignment checks afterward showed that they were both parallel and at the same height.  Whew.

 

IMG_4347.jpeg.dfaf50bee1344d14b5c3f829ee339e4e.jpeg

 

On a real pinas,  there is an interior strengthening plank that runs right along the turn of the bilge, called the bilge stringer.  In some of Witsen's drawings the bilge stringer is thicker than the ceiling planks and I decided to make mine that way, though it will add a bit of complication later when fitting some knees.  I'm making the stringers 3mm x 7mm and installing them on both sides of the model.  In the right hand photo below the slightly higher profile of the bilge stringer is more evident.   I think the height difference will be very visible when the model is finished.

 

IMG_4353.jpeg.b765103086599674382e0e7200beed2c.jpegIMG_4356.jpeg.9fcbf60f38482378e73e347b9c8ae9d2.jpeg

 

In the process of finding the stringer locations I discovered that the floors of my model are wider - by 1-2mm - on the unplanked side.    How that happened I really don't know: I don't think it's a misplaced keelson (which is where I was measuring from) and I am certain all of the floor timbers are centered on the keel, since they have an engraved reference mark.   So probably there was some asymmetry with the placement of the lower futtocks.   However it came to happen,  it's far too late to fix.   And I'm not sure that any bad consequences will follow from it.  Though, maybe it has caused the frames at top of the beam shelves to be slightly too far apart:  coincidentally or not, I found that the spacing between the frames at the beam shelves was 1.5mm wider than the orlop deck beams are long.   

 

On the other hand, if my frame width at the orlop deck is slightly too great,  I'm not the first one this has happened to: I've seen at least one build log of this kit where the photos clearly show the same gap at the beam ends that I have.   It's not really a big deal - mostly, a gap there won't be seen, except that it will be very visible at each end of the model, and I don't like that.   I considered making replacement beams, but instead decided to put a new facing on the two beams which will be on the ends.   So, I glued a new layer of 1/16" basswood to two beams, trimmed the addition to the beam's profile, and then planed off the back of the beam. The result is the original's thickness, but slightly longer on the facing side.  When time comes,  I'll trim the facings to fit exactly, when viewed from the end.  A sharp observer looking down on the undecked side might still notice that those beams are in two parts, but that thought bothers me a lot less than the gap.

 

A side benefit of the facings is that the mortises for the carlings have been covered over on the exposed side.   The kit's method of passing the carlings through the deck beams ensures perfect alignment and looks good, but the through mortise is not prototype practice.   Covering up the end openings as I did doesn't prevent me from actually installing carlings between beams exactly as designed, but hides the details from viewers.   It's possible that I might get ambitious later and add simulated carling mortises on the beams; that ought to be easy if I can just follow the lines of the through-mortises already present.

IMG_4373.jpeg.594b964905835be824c51072390101a3.jpegIMG_4375.jpeg.ec6751bdb5e4db8ff33df99f4162bb2b.jpeg

In the photos below you can see one end of a modified beam (with its new end untrimmed).  Behind the facing, the gap that I want to hide is fairly visible.

 

IMG_4380.jpeg.0240a61d3fa8601fdcfbb3771f1c77c3.jpegIMG_4387.jpeg.b71fce588da711e6153d98d7b9ae0862.jpeg

 

The last work for the long weekend was to continue the port side ceiling up to the orlop beam shelf.  And I've included one messy shop photo.

 

IMG_4374.jpeg.f5cefe51283b24551a46ae652fcc853d.jpegIMG_4345(1).jpeg.659f7c90be38a09b580ec5254c643813.jpeg

 

Thanks for visiting, and all the encouragement.

 

Bob

 

 

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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I had limited time to work on the model this weekend,  and all of it was devoted to treenails and bolts.    First, the treenails. I worked only on the flat planking on the bottom of the model - that area will be only barely seen once it's sitting upright in a stand,  so this work is not high stakes.  I don't have any prior experience with treenails,  and this is very much an experiment.   In the photos shown, there is a double row of treenails on every third floor frame, and the line of each pair is slightly skewed.   The holes were drilled at .8mm and I used birch toothpicks for the treenails.  There are several things that I'm not happy with: (a) the skewed pairs just look sloppy.    Henceforth they'll all be in a single line.  (b) The .8mm diameter is a tad too small.   I had decided on my sample pieces that .9mm looked best, and I think that judgment was correct (don't ask me why I didn't follow it today!) (c) I clearly didn't have a clue with those 6 treenails at the scarf - the number is right but they need to be distributed evenly along the diagonal cut.   There's a good example of how they ought to look on p. 88 of Ab Hoving's annotated Witsen.   I'm not installing treenails at every single floor timber, which would give a spacing of 8mm, because I don't want it to look too busy.

IMG_4417.jpeg.b01b01bf3197198cd79364652cae13f3.jpegIMG_4427.jpeg.ddb0ccf424dc106312f4a0a4de95dad2.jpeg

IMG_4428.jpeg.e7a665f325dfcd2cef6633d546e28e12.jpegIMG_4431.jpeg.42598e1b819c57e971c919b3ded3d0c7.jpeg

 

Bolts I've been trying to decide about for a long time.  Like the treenails,  they're new to me, and I want to include them on this model.   Rather than go through the list of ideas that didn't pan out,  I'll just say that I've settled on 8x1.2 mm brass nails with a black patina (from harfington.com).   The head is something like 2.5mm across, but I can chuck them in my drill press and file the head down to whatever I like, which is currently ~1.8mm, though I might go down a bit more.   The bright brass that filing exposes will be countersunk into the wood, so I don't need to worry about color.   That will make my scale bolt heads about 3.5" diameter, which is (I believe) an inch or more than it ought to be.   So, I'm still thinking about it.   You can see one installed in the keel in the photo above - I'm not going to put in any more until that surface is ready for a finish, since the presence of the bolt is a hindrance to sanding.

 

IMG_4425.jpeg.9242bbd3b0f49bbef6f3ce1acb3f6c53.jpeg

This double page spread by Hoving from pp. 114-115 of his Witsen shows the visual effect I want to get with my bolts.   They sure look a lot bigger than 2" across in this drawing, as they do on all the model examples I can recall seeing.   I welcome comments and suggestions on how you think both treenails and bolts should be handled.

IMG_4432.jpeg.47a4d231813098c82307c68129fe3bc2.jpeg

 

As always, thanks for looking and commenting,

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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1 hour ago, rcweir said:

So, I'm still thinking about it.

 

Have you tried searching for scale bolt heads? They are available as after-market parts for the scale armor modeling community. I don't know if they are available in 1/50 scale, but 1/48 scale is a certainty.

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop

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Thanks!  There's a whole world of them out there!

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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One idea I am toying with is using appropriate size phospher broze wire from Tichy Train Group.  Insert a small piece after the wood is finished, leaving a small rounded nib exposed.  Then, darken using liver of sulpher.  I am told it will not affect the wood.

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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Chuck, I'll be interested to know how it turns out for you.   I had a similar idea using 14 gauge copper wire.  (Of which I have a large supply.)   My problems with that were mostly with getting the darkening chemical to do well for me, but also that it was slow work getting a nicely rounded end.    The stopper for me, though, was darkening, and that was undoubtedly because I wasn't doing the cleaning well enough.

 

Bob

 

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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Posted (edited)

I have pretty much suspended work on the model pending our Country Fair.  I will be working on it over a 9 day period in our club's ship modeling booth.  I got as far as first futtock and some work on other pieces so I can work on it there.  That having been said, I may finish a scrap piece of wood and try the 'bolt thing' just to see how it works out.

 

My thought is that if you buff the exposed end just before you insert it into the wood, using a cloth or something to avoid touching, it should work.  We'll see.

Edited by Chuck Seiler

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't have too much to show for the past three weekends.   But, I can bring the log up to date, which is what I'll do now.  (I have hopes that next weekend I can make actual progress.)

 

Three weekends ago I installed treenails in the planking of the hold, applying what lessons I could from the first round (exterior hull, under the floors, which no one will ever look at again).  Before any drilling, I made a template for the holes out of a piece of plastic, marked the locations with a metal scriber (my tool-of-a-thousand uses), and then drilled the holes.  This time, I drilled .9mm holes (previously it was .8), and rather than a cordless Dremel I decided to use the Foredom flex shaft.   The flex shaft gives me wonderful speed control through the floor pedal, down to nearly 0 rpm.   But, it's still too easy for me to drill too deep, so I ultimately shifted to a pinvise, which was nearly as fast as the Foredom, and a good deal safer.     Start to finish, the pin vise drilling went smoothly.

 

As before,  the treenails themselves are made from birch toothpicks.   I did not treenail either the bilge stringer or the keelson:  I'm intending to use bolts on them, and those details are not yet settled.

 

IMG_4453.jpeg.0cb4022eb3c8a93ba496ac6ccd022c09.jpegIMG_4458.jpeg.597b5f9159e38af3c4170c4d373b88d9.jpeg

 

 

 

Next I put on a wash coat of ½ lb cut shellac to raise the grain for sanding, and that created an unexpected problem.   When I planked the interior, I shaded the plank edges just as I do on exterior planking.  (I think this was wrong-headed, but the shading is past undoing.)   And, as an experiment, I marked the very first plank edge using a Sharpie.  The ink from the Sharpie was dissolved by the shellac's alcohol, and left an ugly, black blotch where there ought to be a thin, sharp line.

 

IMG_4462.jpeg.3d2ab415a849aa8838718aba9e902a9e.jpeg

I first thought that I'd need to remove the two stained planks.  Access there is excellent, but besides the many treenails holding those planks in place,  there are plenty of other ways that removal could result in a lot of collateral damage.  So, first, I tried planing those planks down; thinking I might plane them down enough that removal would be easier, or maybe I could plane just far enough to add thin planks on top, which would be a nearly invisible repair.   What I found, though, was that the blotch was just on the plank surface, and after planing less than .1 mm, the affected area looked as good as it had before.   So I'm going to leave it at that.    (I don't have a good after pic, unfortunately.)

 

I'll have to make a decision soon about what I'll use for bolts, both in material and size.    Chris Coyle made the excellent suggestion of getting 3d printed armor bolts, and I ordered a bunch of bolts in sizes from .6-2.0mm, with round and hex heads, from an eBay company called nuoexcellet.  When they arrived, I took an extra knee and installed a few sample round heads on it.   Plus, since I'm intrigued by Chuck's frequent use of 30lb fishing line, I included that on my sample, too.   At the moment,  I am inclined to use the round bolt heads for my model, in the 1.2mm and 1.4mm sizes.   All that remains, I think, is to count up the quantity needed to outfit the whole kit:  these bolts are expensive when you consider that only a small percentage of each package will be usable on this model.  As I've splurged as much as I'm going to on bolts, I've got to be sure my current suppIy is sufficient for the sizes and locations where they'll be placed.

 

IMG_4474.jpeg.a08a2827eb7e975a2e332853b480e50e.jpegIMG_4505.jpeg.882407e717ebd2e032f19319ff3bbf5e.jpeg

Finally,  I started fitting the beams for the lower deck, though none of them are glued in, yet.

 

IMG_4496.jpeg.5eb62125185e40997ed0da1a76b8f745.jpegIMG_4500.jpeg.e392150ea6f2bfc75995c3589ce79ca8.jpeg

 

Thanks for looking - hope I have something more interesting for next time.

 

Bob

Bob

current build 

Dutch 17th Century Pinas - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 - Cross-Section

upcoming builds                               past builds

Statenjacht - Kolderstok - 1:50                                         USS Peary (DD 226) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:96 (gallery)

Fluytschip - Kolderstok - 1:72                                            USS DeHaven (DD 727) - Tehnoart Ltd - 1:192

back on the shelf                                                              USS Robert E. Peary (FF 1073) - 1:250

Mayflower - Model Shipways - 1:76.8   

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