Realistic Galleon Painting Question

[Bill Jackson]

Hi All,

I am a person who tries to represent the Spanish Galleons models that I build as realistic as possible. Having spent 20 years at sea, I am well aware what salt water does to paint. Therefore, when I do a build, I try to finish my galleons with colors and stains etc. that show wear and the effects of salt water over months of sailing. My current build is the Apostol San Felipe (1559). The instructions show the stern support brackets as being Gold!  (See below) This is my problem. While I know galleons of this era did use real gold in some areas it does not seem feasable that support brackets would be real gold, and I dont think at that time they know how to create gold paint. Maybe I am wrong, but from what I have read, the paint in that era was really bad. Meaning it didn't last and the same color varied greatly between ships.

QUESTION: Am I wrong in my thinking that stern support brackets would never be gold in color on real Galleons?

Your opinions please..

 Bill

 

[thibaultron]

I would guess they were gilded, covered in gold leaf. They would lay some sort of adhesive/varnish on the wood, then place gold leaf sheets on the wet whatever, burnish it down then varnish over it to seal it. So they were not solid gold, but covered in a very thin gold coating.

[Baker]

I've been working on galleons for a while.
This looks nice on a model. But I don't believe at all that this was the case in reality.

[Stevinne]

3 hours ago, thibaultron said:

I would guess they were gilded, covered in gold leaf. They would lay some sort of adhesive/varnish on the wood, then place gold leaf sheets on the wet whatever, burnish it down then varnish over it to seal it. So they were not solid gold, but covered in a very thin gold coating.

That's the same technique they used on a lot of the gold materials found in King Tut's tomb. I saw an exhibit of the items many years ago and the coolest part was that once you got up close, you could see the impressions left on the gold leaf by the fingers of the people who applied it. As for the support brackets on the galleon, I'd think that's the manufacturer deciding it would be easier to provide cast pieces instead of carved wood.

 

Edited July 20 by Stevinne

[tmj]

From what I've read... thibaultron is mostly correct. Galleons of that era were oft times elaborately decorated with gold and/or 'gilt' finishes for the purpose of displaying wealth, power, and the status of the ship's owners, country, etc. That being said, and for whatever it's worth... the Atocha has yet to give up any valuable artifacts from any stern decorations. If there was any heavy gold there it would have been found. Odds are that any gold decoration/glitter of sternpost decoration, on the Atocha, was gilded and quickly claimed by the sea via time and degradation... if it existed at all.       

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20 by tmj

[Bill Jackson]

Thanks guys for your response. I agree with everything said. But what about the doors and windows? They are what brought into question the autheticity of the gold color stern brackets. For sure the doors and windows would not have been gilded!??? I am not a fan of photo-eching. I just question their (OcCre) use of gold color.

Bill

[mtaylor]

My thoughts were/are a bit different.  They may very well have used yellow ochre paint since gole, even brass was expensive and a storm and/or combat could (and often times did) blow away decorations and external members.

[PvG Aussie]

A very interesting question Bill. I am currently building a Spanish Galleon (find it here) and can't bring myself to use any gold as it seems too elaborate 'for the day'. I have even followed all the paint guidelines and will be heart broken when I have to weather what I have so carefully created. I always try to be as authentic as possible without the elaborate decoration.

Cheers, Peter

[GrandpaPhil]

I personally use an antique gold (nonmetallic) color for parts that would have been represented as being gold, or gilded.

[Louie da fly]

I am of the opinion that 'gold' would usually have been faked with yellow paint. And though there was a lot of 'gold' decoration on important naval ships in the 17th century I've never heard of it being used in the 16th - they seem to have used bright colours toward the end of the century but I think your kit manufacturer has had a rush of blood to the brain, and that they just made it up because they thought it would look 'cool'. I think you'd be far more correct to forget the gold. If you want to, use yellow paint, but as far as I'm aware gold has no historical justification for a model from this time.

Steven

[PvG Aussie]

47 minutes ago, Louie da fly said:

I am of the opinion that 'gold' would usually have been faked with yellow paint.

Steven, I could not agree more.

Peter

[Louie da fly]

By the way, a skilled painter can 'shade' yellow paint to look quite convincingly like gold.

[Bill Jackson]

I also am in agreement. I have found 2 parts of this galleon already that should not have been on the galleon back in 1590. Each step I take has to be verified by research. Steven and Peter in my opinion, you guys are right on the mark!

Bill

[Louie da fly]

Are you making the Occre kit?

If so, I've just come across a site https://occre.com/en-au/products/apostol-felipe#:~:text=The Apóstol Felipe was one,"Race for the Indies". that dates its first voyage at 1629, which would change a lot of its detail. The picture above looks more appropriate to 1629, though I think perhaps the stern galleries might have had roofs by that time.

 

I doubt that there is any reliable information as to exactly how the original ship looked - it's more likely that the manufacturer has provided a kit of a "typical ship of this type and date".

 

Oh, and by that date, "gold" paint was considerably more common in decorating big and important (usually royal) ships.

 

Steven

 

Edited October 25 by Louie da fly