SS Vinal Haven by TBlack - FINISHED

[TBlack]

Thanks, guys, but I'm still a little hesitant. I want to build the exterior of this pilot house out of one piece of styrene. I'm told, however, by experts who have gone before me that I should build it up piecemeal. I'm either a fool or a genius!

[Jim Lad]

I don't build in styrene, Tom, but I don't see why the wheelhouse couldn't be made from one piece with a little judicious heating.

 

John

[realworkingsailor]

As long as you've got a decent mandrel, a little hot water and you should have no trouble bending the sheet around.... just cut out any openings first and have another layer to sandwich the piece.

[captainbob]

 I'm either a fool or a genius!

 

You never know until you try. Then it's either, "WOW" or "OOPS".

 

Bob

[TBlack]

OK you guys, but if it doesn't work it's your fault and if it does work I get the credit! Anyway, can't do anything about it until Sunday.

 

Tom

[captainbob]

OK you guys, but if it doesn't work it's your fault and if it does work I get the credit!

 

Isn't that always the way.  The helpers never get credit.

 

Bob

[Garward]

Thanks, guys, but I'm still a little hesitant. I want to build the exterior of this pilot house out of one piece of styrene. I'm told, however, by experts who have gone before me that I should build it up piecemeal. I'm either a fool or a genius!

 

It can be told about any experimenter: if experiment turned out, a genius and if isn't present....   

[TBlack]

I'm not sure I understand about the heating thing. How do you apply that and how hot does it need to be?

 

Tom

[Jim Lad]

Tom,

 

Hot enough not to melt the syrene!   

 

The heat will soften the styrene and make it easy to shape - I think Andy's suggestion of hot water would be the best method of heating the sheet for an application such as this.  Maybe Andy can give some more practical directions.

 

John

[TBlack]

OK John, I get it, but my mandrel is wooden does wood ignite before styrene melts? Do we have any chemists on this board. Oh, wait, yes, we have Themadchemist! I definitely need professional help!

[Jim Lad]

Bob,

 

Your styrene with melt and then catch fire at about the same time your wood does (catch fire, not melt).

 

And yes, you do need help - like the rest of us - but not from a chemist.  Have you thought of consulting Dr. Per?    

 

John

[realworkingsailor]

Perhaps I should have explained better

 

We're just talking hot water here, just below the boiling point. Enough to soften the styrene and make it a little more pliable.

As I said before make sure you have all your window and door openings cut first. Then just take a frying pan large enough to fit your sheet in and fill it with about 1" or so of water. Bring it up nearly to a boil (and even if it is boiling, there's still no worry). Dip your sheet in for a couple seconds, remove it and form it around your mandrel. The mandrel should be pretty much the shape of the curve of your pilot house. If you do the same thing with a second uncut sheet, you can lay that one over the first one and clamp them down with rubber bands or what not.

 

I'm imagining the radius for you pilot house (at this scale) is reasonably generous. You could avoid heating, but the plastic would simply fight you at every turn (pardon the pun).

 

Another, dryer option you can try (and this really works better when there are no openings to cut), is to simply wrap they styrene sheet dry around a mandrel and heat it with a hair dryer.

 

Hope that helps..

 

Andy

Edited April 27, 2013 by realworkingsailor

[TBlack]

OK, sounds intriguing. And the styrene will hold its shape when dry, right? Also will the uprights between windows wrinkle in the heating process? Notice how thin they are in the photo.

 

Tom

[realworkingsailor]

It should hold it's shape when it's cooled down with minimal spring back. EIther way a bit of minor bracing and you'll be good.

 

 

Andy

[TBlack]

Thanks, Andy, but what about the uprights between the windows? Are they going to be misshapen in the process? BTW, when I mentioned your 2 options, my wife immediately thought the hot water technique was preferable (she has no idea), but she wasn't going to give up her hair dryer!

 

Does this reply mean you're back home?

 

Tom

[Adrieke]

Tom . i have never done this but if you put the sheet between 2 plieable sheets of lets say thin cardboard theuprights should hold

[realworkingsailor]

Thanks, Andy, but what about the uprights between the windows? Are they going to be misshapen in the process? BTW, when I mentioned your 2 options, my wife immediately thought the hot water technique was preferable (she has no idea), but she wasn't going to give up her hair dryer!

 

Does this reply mean you're back home?

 

Tom

No.. sorry... not home yet.  

 

 I wouldn't worry too much about them, really they are almost too thin. They will follow the tangent to the curve of the pilot house at the points they join at. The windows themselves wouldn't be exactly curved either, they would be segments of the curve only.

 

And it is only styrene, if you're not happy with your first attempt, just re-heat, flatten between a couple good heavy books and try again.

 

Andy

[TBlack]

Thanks, Andy, I'll give it a try right after I fix the garage door opener. And I read your entry about how the Engineers saved the day!

 

Tom

[michael mott]

Tom I have done a lot of work with styrene over the years (architectural model building commercially) I would build this up with two small pieces one for the bottom and one for the top. the window posts would be rectangular in cross section with possibly a slight curve on the outside but would be rabbeted on the inside to accept the glass of the windows.

 

With regard to the curve if you use something as thin as .010" and use a couple of layers they can be bend and glued around some cut styrene forms and use a couple of layers. I notice that the bottom of the windows there is a rounded trim, evergreen make a few different half round sections and they bend and glue very easily. If you take a strip of styrene and pull it between your finger you can impart a fairly tight curve. Use the liquid capillary type glue where you hold the parts together first then using a small paint brush add a drop of glue and move along the length.

 

Use this same method when attaching the sheet to a former, the former semicircular shape inside the wheel house cut four the same 2 for the top and two for the bottom. sort of like this.

 

 

Michael

Edited May 8, 2013 by michael mott

[TBlack]

I've had slow going on the pilot house. In part, because I was trying to make it out of one piece, and in part because I fell off the back porch and busted a rib and bashed my face up really good. Any way, after several failed attempts I realized the pilot house skin had to be in several pieces. The really tricky part is the dividers between the windows. They are thin and close together and so ANY deviation from parallel or thickness stands out. Easier to do them separately. So that's what I did. What I didn't do, and should have, was, as Michael has just suggested, to allow for a rabbet on the inside of the window partition for the inner liner. that can be fixed.

 

On the subject of maintaining the curve, I think I can take the wooden plug and cut off the bottom up to flush with the bottom of the 2 doors (about 3/8") and use that to maintain the proper shape along the bottom. A thinner one around the roof ought to take care of the top. Once I put the interior paneling in place the walls ought to be stiff enough to carry the roof without bowing? The styrene is .030" thick.

 

And Michael, I'm all over that 1/2 round under the windows. It's the moulding at the roof that is more interesting. David Antscherl gave me a tip on how to approach it; let's see if I can carry it off!

[Jim Lad]

Crikey, Tom, I hope you're well and truly on the mend after that fall, mate!

 

John

[captainbob]

Tom,

 

I’ve fallen like that a couple of times.  So now repeat after me, “I will not put myself in a position where I could fall”.  The Admiral has me repeat this several times a week.  Glad it was just brusing.

 

Bob

[TBlack]

Thanks guys, I did actually manage to break the rib...glad I've got spares! Anybody know how long it takes to fix these things?

 

Michael, I woke up this morning at 2:00 AM with the realization that you've put quite a lot of thought and work into my project. I'm not sure I thanked you adequately in my last message. I think the uprights are narrow enough that they won't need "rounding". But the rabbet concept is brilliant!(If Andy's reading this, it's a wabbit!). When I'm next up in the Edmonton area, I'll buy you a beer! 

Tom

[popeye the sailor]

hope your mending well......looks like a neat idea your working on 

[Meredith]

What a great build!

Here I was thinking I was only interested in the sailing type/tall ships....

 

But the more I spend looking at logs here - the more my interests broaden.

 

I would love to attempt something like this - but I just couldn't draw up the plans/parts. I need at least a ready made plan - or kit. So for now I can just admire from afar.

 

Really impressive work.. I love it!

[TBlack]

Popeye, I don't know what kind of an idea it is, but it's different! Love your yacht America!

 

Meredith, Thanks for looking in. Somewhere on this site is a thread about why we build the ships we build. I can tell you that I'm doing this as a break from tying ratlines, and I wanted to do something with a state of Maine background. And I can draw up the plans either, so I just throw myself at the mercy of my community (please see M. Mott's entry above). This is a great place.

Interesting place you come from...can you give me a phonetic spelling?

Tom

[michael mott]

Tom Thanks for you kind remarks, and yes this really is a great place, the thing I most like about it is the incredibly positive nature of the people who visit here and the effort taken by so many to share their knowledge and skill. I have learned so much in the past year and a half being a member of this very generous community.  I am also looking forward to that beer when you get here

 

The small paddle wheelers that were so instrumental in opening up the northwest have always fascinated my imagination. I had a great book called Stern Wheelers of the Frontier, or something like that. I lent to a chap about 25 years ago and have not seen it since. Such is life.

 

Your comment about using the wood former makes a lot of sense also. I am curious about the top moulding that you mention.

 

 One of the great things about styrene is that you can use the scraper type formers that so many here use for creating those shapes in boxwood and pear wood, they work just as well.

 

Michael

[TBlack]

Michael,

Art Downes, Paddlewheels on the Frontier check on Amazon; readily available for little money.

I'm new to this styrene stuff and am just learning how to handle it. I haven't tried the scraping yet, but it's in my future. Here's the close-up of that moulding around the roof.

 

Also, notice the window insert; on the sides, it's maybe an inch wide? My first shot at casting those had them showing too much around the edges (see photo back a couple of entries). So, I've got to re-do those as well. But I think this is going to be doable. The end result, I hope, will be a lighter, thinner structure than building up in pieces.

 

Tom

[michael mott]

Tom when you do the pilot window castings you can use the same mould, if you can snap the casting down the center then glue in a strip of evergreen the glass can be from a clear plastic cake cover the kind that have the vac formed shell over them this stuff can be cut easily with scissors and can take a fold to get the right shape for the two sheets. The fold is best done by pressing the plastic over the edge of a clean square edge of a metal rule or similar edge.

 

Here's a pic of what I am trying to describe.

 

 

Hope this is useful

 

Michael

[TBlack]

Michael,

Now I know you want that beer! But doesn't your approach end up with a window with an angle in it? Look at this picture; the windows look flat to me.