SS Vinal Haven by TBlack - FINISHED

[popeye the sailor]

me neither..........Andy's given me lots of good ideas       the molding looks great tom!

Edited November 13, 2013 by popeye the sailor

[pete48]

looks good Tom. She's comming right along

[TBlack]

I've been struggling with building the funnel for this craft. Here's what it supposed to look like:

 

 

And here's what I've come up with so far:

 

 

I started with a 5/8"brass tube; fabricated a wooden plug to establish the slope of the skirt and drilled the center out to 5/8".

The skirt in the picture is brass which started out something like this reject:

 

 

I'm still not happy with the result, as the edges of the skirt get wobbly with all the handling. I'm going to try fabricating it out of sheet styrene.

 

The other issue is the rings around the top. I wanted to make them out of brass strip, What's available commercially (that I've been able to find) is strip of the right thickness, but 1/4" wide. I have no way of cutting the 1/4" down to, say, .5 mm. So, first I tried styrene strip of the right size, but there is no adhesive that I could find that will bond plastic to brass. My fallback was wood. What you see in the picture is apple wood and epoxy. It's good and solid, but it's too thick compared to the rings around the stack in the first picture.

 

I'm hoping that Michael Mott, who drops by this log occasionally, will have some recommendations on how I can "tool up" to be able to cut brass to small dimensions.

 

Tom

[popeye the sailor]

to be honest Tom.......I think it came out quite well.   once painted,  you would never be able to tell them apart 

[michael mott]

Hi Tom, regarding the brass strips you might try this outfit  failing that you could try the cutting a strip off some brass foil sheet with an exacto knife and rolling it upon itself, then use a small soldering Iron to bond it into a ring.

I will see if I can do what I am describing as well. Also there are shim-stock sheets supplied by the automotive industry that can easily be cut with scissors.

or a knife.

 

Another thought is to use the next size up of telescoping brass tube and thinning it down and cutting off a couple of rings.

 

Michael

Edited November 21, 2013 by michael mott

[TBlack]

Popeye, Thanks for the support. I actually think the rings look fine, standalone; they don't look grossly over-sized. I was just comparing them to the picture.

 

Michael, As I was reading your suggestions, I remembered that Longridge, in his book on the building of Victory, mentions using square wire in its construction. So I googled "square wire" and it turns out that jewelers use it all the time. It's available, in copper, all the way up to 8 guage. Does anybody know what the dimension of 8 guage is?

 

Tom

Edited November 21, 2013 by TBlack

[michael mott]

Tom, the size depends on what association chart one uses.

 

American or Brown & Sharp is 0.124890

Birmingham or Subs is 0.165

W &M Music Wire is .0243

British Imperial Std Wire is .192

 

Michael

[TBlack]

Michael, Why does life have to be so complicated?

 

Tom

[michael mott]

You know Tom I'm not sure, but looking at the picture of the funnel again I think I would go for a couple of wraps of the brass foil. I would guess in real life they would be somewhere in the range of 1-2 inches high by 1/16th to 1/8th thick which is .002 x .041.

 

Michael

[captainbob]

Tom,

 

Another source of brass shapes is Special Shapes.  They make the brass for K&S but on their web site they have much more.

 

Bob

[TBlack]

Michael, Bob,

 

New up-date. I figured if my first attempt at rings in wood were a bust, why not stick my neck out a little and see if I could get them down to proper size. If I ruined them, no loss. Anyway, I chucked the tube in the lathe and applied file and sandpaper and got the rings down to less than .5 mm without damage (I think that's less than an inch at 1:48?). Also, I replaced the brass skirt with a styrene one. Take a look:

 

I'm a lot happier with this arrangement. And, Bob, I'll check out Special Shapes in any event; thanks for the tip.

 

Tom

Edited November 23, 2013 by TBlack

[Jim Lad]

Tom,

 

I hate to be play devil's advocate, but when I study that photo graph closely, I'm sure I can see two reinforcing rings on the funnel.

 

John

[TBlack]

John,

You may be right. It would be easy enough to add another one. I'll have to look at my other photos. The lower of the two rings takes the four stays. So the addition of a third ring would be just for structural integrity?

 

Tom

[Jim Lad]

Yes, Tom, it would just be for strength.  I'll be interested to see what your other photos show.

 

John

[michael mott]

Hi Tom, The thickness of .5mm is approximately 15/16th of an inch in 1/48 scale I am not trying to be picky Just helpful. I think that skirt looks great I do still think that the wood looks a bit heavy, but that is just my view. It is your model and your decision is what matters.

here is a short chart of the common sizes in 1/48th scale

1/16 = .0013" or .033mm

1/8 = .002" or .066mm

3/16 =.0038" or .098mm

1/4 = .005" or .132mm

3/8 = .007" or .198mm

1/2 = .0104" or .264mm

3/4= .0156" or .396mm

1 = .020" or .525mm

My guess is that the straps wrapping around the stack would be less than 1/2 inch thick but again that is just my guess.

 

sincerely Michael

[TBlack]

Michael & John,

 

OK, here's another photo with more evidence. I'm hoping you can see the detail. The rings, truly, must be quite thin as they don't seem to stand out at all from this angle. I'm thinking I could use a strip of paper to accomplish the task. Also, to John's point, where the strip is strengthening the guy wires/stays, all you can see is a shiny band; there is another shiny band lower down which would validate John's observation about a second band.

 

 

Finally, it looks like the top doesn't have a band around it, but rather is flared. I have no way to do that with my tools. My alternative is to put the stack back in the lathe and apply a round file to the band that rings the top. If that ends up looking hokey, then I'll just have to live with a straight stack.

 

Tom

[steamschooner]

Tom, I have taken small dia/gauge brass or copper wire and made a ring the size of the stack. Than soldered it to the top of stack and than shaped it with files while turning in lathe. As for bands I have used different gauge brass/copper wire and run it thur a friends roller. It will flatten the wire to different widths depending on how much the bead roller is tightened down per pass.

Your project is looking very good.

[michael mott]

Tom, yes you are right in that the top is flared There is a simple way to do that. if you tade a piece of hard wood and drill or cut a hole that the funnel will slip through.

1 file or turn the radius on one edge of the ring.

2 Anneal the top of the funnel so that it is soft then using a rod of brass, or wood,or even a teaspoon you can gently swedge the top to fit the curve in the wood ring, you might need to anneal it a couple of times.

 

Michael

[michael mott]

Tom I just did a quick experiment, the teaspoon doesn't work unless is is really tiny. But a 1/4 inch drill bit works fine

 

1 5/8 brass tube and I just happened to have a scrap of yew wood that I driled a 5/8 hole through then spun in the lathe to create the curved edge.

 

 

Then annealed the top edge of the tube.

 

 

then slipped the wood ring over it

 

 

Then taking the 1/4 inch drill bit and using the shank end worked it around the edge pressing towards the wood.

 

 

slipped the ring off and there is the result.

 

 

I think you would have no trouble doing this.

 

Michael

[Jim Lad]

Tom - a agree with your assessment from that second photo - a flared top and two narrow flat bands.

 

Michael - great was to create a realistic flare.  Thanks for the explanation.

 

John

[captainbob]

Tom,

 

The ring are looking good.  Anxious to see a photo of the whole boat with the latest additions.

 

Bob

[TBlack]

Michael, That looks fabulous, and you make it look so easy!

 

Only one problem. I can't put the yew piece in my lathe to create the sloped edge My lathe doesn't have the clearance necessary to handle a piece of that diameter. See picture:

 

Tom

[michael mott]

Tom I see what you mean.

What happens if you turn the jaws around? do you have a set of reverse jaws for bigger diameters?

 

failing those two options what about gluing a smaller piece on the back-side or just using some sandpaper to create the curve.

 

Michael

[TBlack]

You just gave me an idea! What I can do is drill the 5/8" hole part way through my "yew piece". Lock the piece in position on the drill press; switch out drills to say 1/4" drill; drill through the yew piece; insert screw and tighten; mount that in the lathe; finish off the lip in the yew piece; reposition at the drill press and finish drilling out the 5/8" hole. Voila!

 

I'l give it a try, thanks. But just because you can do it doesn't mean I can.

 

Tom

[michael mott]

Tom I look forward to seeing your results.

 

Michael

[TBlack]

Bob, I can't wait to see what the whole thing looks like either, but I've got to get this stack right, as it's a pretty prominent feature on the model.

Also, I'm working on 2 other boats, one for my grandson and the other a restoration of a clipper ship (im getting paid for the latter, o I really need to be working on it).

Tom

[druxey]

Another possibility to create the flare would be to spin the tube and feed a conical piece of wood against it.

[captainbob]

It's never good when work and fun collide. 

 

Bob

[TBlack]

I made pretty good progress on the Amanda, and finished the Titanic for my grandson, so I got to try out Michael's suggestion. Duck soup! Very simple, very elegant solution:

 

 

It needs cleaning up and painted flat black, and it's done! I'm delighted.

 

Michael, you've gotten me through this process and also your help on the pilot house windows. There's just one more sticky wicket: the eagle on top of the pilot house. Any ideas?

 

Tom

[michael mott]

 

There's just one more sticky wicket: the eagle on top of the pilot house. Any ideas?

Tom I laughed out loud.

 

You have done a great job on the funnel! it looks super.

 

Tom Type in "Eagle Charms" into your web browser and look at the images search, you will be amazed

 

Michael