HMS Greyhound by Old Collingwood - Corel

[Old Collingwood]

Well it arrived today in a nice tidy box well packaged and presented, i checked over all the contents and decide my build strategy,  i first checked the keel for squareness and found that it was not sitting totally flat when on its side, so i gently flatened it aided by abit of friction/heat, next was to design/build a building frame so it was to the shed i ventured....i found a piece of 2"x1" soft wood, after cutting to length and shaping the ends, i fitted four pieces of balsa that where placed against the keel for aligning, then after gluing in place with some strong glue.

Here is my first pic showing the above, but as i dont have a close up or wide lens just 55mm minimum on my dslr, i may struggle to show close/fine details....

 

C.

[dragzz]

as far i can see looks good so far so good there

[jeff shreve]

Just picked one of these up as well - couldn't pass on the $119 sale price !

[hamilton]

Hi Collingwood:

 

Nice to see you have a start here. You might have already noticed that the keel does not fit the drawing of the CNC part provided on the plans. In fact, I recommend you leave Corel's plans and instructions behind almost entirely. They are vague and even deceptive. Check the bulkheads carefully - I had to shore up bulkheads 9 and 10 considerably (adding a good 8mm worth of .5mm veneers to create a fair hull). There are areas where you need to modify the bulkhead edges a lot to get a fair run of planking. Not sure how much ship modelling experience you have, so maybe these words are expended unnecessarily - and apologies if they are! It's a frustrating build to begin with but is quite a bit of fun in the offing.

 

Keep in mind the fudges or structural modifications that might be necessary in order to achieve certain effects - like the open bulwarks as represented on the HMS Blandford, which I achieved at some cost to overall integrity because I did not foresee the structural modifications that would have been necessary in order to get a "perfect" look....

 

Anyway, bonne chance and let me know if my experience with the kit can benefit you at all

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Hi dragzz,  jeff and  hamilton,

 

Thank you for the replies,  Im fairly well up there with farring i had to do this quite considerably with my vic build, also adding shaped timbers from formed wood strips(coffee stirers)  and constant-Constant-COnstant sanding the bulk heads with different strengths of sanding material to get a good smooth planking shape, i had to go almost completely away from the de-agostini build instructs, as they where also not 100% acurate, mind you i started from the bottom up from the keel and even started to add some lower floors like the hold etc.

This i will try to do with this kit, and after scouring the net for info on the 1720  20-24 gun man-of-war(frigate), it is possible with some mods to build any of the four mentioned, Lyme is perhaps the most interesting as she shows to have a slightly lengthened forecastle area and poop with the addition of a (poss 6pdr cannon) on the top of the poop deck, and and additional one rearward and on the same deck as the our cutouts.

So lots of possibilities

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

Does the kit come with extra materials or are they exact? just incase i decide to lengthen the forecastle area and plank it, this is what i would need to do to build the kit as HMS Lyme, also i would need to plank over the rear step upto the poop area as this would be acsessed via extarnal steps again if i build HMS Lyme.

 

 

C.

[hamilton]

Hi Collingwood:

 

It's hard to say how much extra the kit comes with as I have replaced a lot of the components - I only used the supplied stripwood for the 1st planking and that was more than adequate. But because of the finish I wanted to achieve, I used stock that I purchased myself. Also I found that some items supplied by corel (the eyebolts and split rings) were horribly out of scale. I scratch built most of the metal kit supplied parts, including the quarterbadges, head rails, capstan, forecastle timberheads/knightheads; forecastle & quarterdeck rails, etc. These metal parts I found to be woefully inadequate and though my own scratch building skills are minimal I think I achieved better results myself than by using the supplied parts. I've also replaced all of the kit supplied rigging line, which is also out of scale - .25mm is the smallest line supplied and is way too wide for some of the smaller lines (like the topgallant ties or the staysail rigging (which is also a feature I added).

 

The blocks and deadeyes are adequate for the purpose, but they only supplied one size (5mm), and these are out of scale for the topmast shrouds and the bobstays/bowsprit shrouds and backstays, which I used 3mm replacements for (not supplied in the kit). I also received (thanks to another forum member) some 2mm blocks that I've used for the staysail rigging and for adding crowsfeet on the lower mast stays.

 

Anyway, if you're trying to achieve a different vessel out of the kit supplied parts, you might need to replace many of the items supplied in the kit - though I imaging that they are adequate for building the kit as represented on the box. 

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Thanks hamilton, it will certainly be an interesting build, and hopefully my build experience both plastic and wood will come in useful.

 

On with my build,  after offering up forecastle b-head num 1, i soon discovered the slots on both the keel and b-heads where tight, so i opened both up slightly after checking the centre point of the slots, then  a nice join was made, i then fitted brace  23s and offered up both number 24s, but as i did with my vic build i decided to fan out these two supports at 45deg angles, first i sanded the edges of both to meet at a point then glued both in place.

I did this because i found it makes for a smoother more natural curve for the hull planking.

Anyway heres the pics.....

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

And an old pic of the pilot boat i built for my old vic kit, i still have this boat but had to leave my quarter completed vic kit.

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

I have been working on extending the rear section of the keel, and correcting the wrong angle of the rudder post. i added a small strip of balsa i had knocking around, i constructed it - 8mm wide down to nothing, this will meen the rear quarters/poop deck area wil be 8mm longer, but this might just help the quarter windows abit. 

 

 

C.

[hamilton]

So far so good - I'm interested to see how the stern modifications work out as the kit develops. I also like your approach to the bow fillers - they might need quite a bit of fairing down to produce a smooth run, but installing them this way seems like a good way of getting a nice round bow. 

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Thanks hamilton,

 

I have started work on the rear section today and fitted the rearmost b-head 13, i then worked on the poop deck and forecastle, because i have decided to build her as HMS Lyme (with a little artistic licence-well alot), both these areas needed extending, so i went from the plan marked around extended, then added some ply the same thickness as the poop/forecastle deck, i have also fixed a template of paper underneath and secured with strong glue to aid strength, i also filled in the poop deck stairway port as i will fit two external ladders instead.

 

Here are the pics showing these two areas and the frame plan showing the alterations i will make to the quarterdeck bulwarks, and others.

 

 

C.

[hamilton]

Good planning and an interesting start - is the Lyme one of the later 6th rates of this class that has the squared off beakhead and the mizzen mast & ship's wheel on the quarterdeck? There are some images in the AOS Blandford that show some period models of 20-gun ships and the book talks extensively about the evolution of this class of vessel from the 1719 Establishment up to the early 1740s. Where the quarterdeck is extended, it also houses the mizzen mast and the ship's wheel is close to the forward edge - though I'm not sure this applies to the Lyme......

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Hi hamilton,   im still toying with the idea about the forecastle, to square it off/or not to quare it off? i might if im lazy, make it an interpretation where it had all the other mods but kept a rounded forecastle, but i am deffinatly extending both the poop and forecastle areas, as shown in my pics, they show the flat areas minus the planking, i will do both these as seperate builds and plank them prior to fitting, then i will work on the bulwark/stud areas when i have fitted them.

I would like to use abit of artistic licence here with my build, as i am sure there are no deffinatives regarding thier exact look, as we know alot depended on the captain at the time, especialy with smaller alterations - ladder situating etc.

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

More progress yesterday, with the decks and adjusting the bulkheads as they do not lign up with the slots in the decks, i have also marked out and adjusted the new cut outs for the masts, as all three are in slightly different positions due to me moving the main deck about 5-6mm further back.

I also fitted the next bulkhead from the bow section num 3, and the corresponding one at the stern to help me align the decks for the poop and the forecastle, these are not fitted as i have plenty to do to them and i will even plank them on the table then fit them prior to planking the walls of the bulwarks. 

 

 

C.

[mtaylor]

Looks like you're off to a great start.  Hope you don't mind if I pull up a chair and watch? 

[Richard50]

This build log looks interesting, I look forward to following it.

[Old Collingwood]

Looks like you're off to a great start.  Hope you don't mind if I pull up a chair and watch? m1242.gif

Not at all mark, thanks for following.

 

 

C,

[Old Collingwood]

Thanks jim.

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

Carrying on with dry-fitting stuff aswel as fitting the bulkheads, i have decided to widen the lower deck, this i started on bulkhead 4 and have cut it out to extend the planking area and also to include the floor beam knee's as shown, the other two pics show the general dry-run layout with the captain/leutenants door/window assembly(not sure if i will use this with a little re-work or make my own), and the other a general plan view showing how the quarter/forecastle/poop areas will look.

I may even consider extending the decks even further down to include a hold(i know this wont be seen but it will be fun building and i will know its thier) abit like building a sub and fitting it out inside prior to sealing it up.

 

Heres the pics...

 

C.

[hamilton]

Hi Collingwood:

 

Wow - this is commitment! I wonder - will this be at all visible once the hatches, etc. are added on the main deck? Or were you thinking of cutting out a section of the planking and showing an interior section at mid-ships - this would resolve the issue of having invisible interior details, though it might be a bit difficult to achieve....anyway, I admire your bravery in tearing this kit down to the nuts. 

 

I'll also offer my advice on the metal cabin bulkhed - ditch it!! If you're willing to make interior details that no one will see, then you should definitely apply your skills to crafting a bulkhead to replace the awful piece supplied by Corel! 

 

Anyway, this is shaping up to be a very interesting build - I'm very curious to see how it all comes together

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

After having a day off due to my other hobby - cameras calling me i got the chance to play with my new nikon dslr that i use for my pics on here,  anyway yesterday was on with the build, i have been working with the bulkheads from both bow and stern, as i am mindful of hamiltons problems with the two miss-aligned and shaped bh's, and as i am showing a wider lower deck with part deck floor beam and knees, i have been working on 1 bh at a time then fitting/glueing and dry testing the main gundeck against the line of the bh's. 

I have also found that by correcting for a slope or sheer over the quarterdeck of possibly 5-10mm this equates to a real sheer in full size terms of about 2-4ft over the same area, this will meen i can file out abit of the bh/frame slot and sit the bh's slightly lower, hopefully helping to correct abit of the problem hamilton disscovered, this should look ok as i know they would have had quite a deffined slope/sheer anyway.

I will continue in this form and adjust as i go and fingers crossed end up with a hull shape that is not to bad, and if anything like hamiltons i will be extremely happy.

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

I made some more progress today but also when backwards abit when i stumbled on a problem with the placing of the front bh's in relation to the the front area of the keel, there was to much keel showing with to much profile, so i took the keel off and cut back the false keel about 8mm, i also re shaped the front keel bringing it closer to the line of planking when i do it, i have also been continuing with my bh's again working from bow and stern towards the mid-ship area.

Here are the pics...

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

Does anyone have any advice over correct paint colors for the 1719 light frigate ships, i am tempted by off white for interior bulkheads etc, red ocre for upper deck bulwarks & fitting against them etc,   flat metal black for cannons and iron work,   french blue for the hull detailing near to rails,   a rich pine stain for hull above whale, whale same black as above,  flat white for hull from waterline and below, and gold or brass for ornaments guilt figurehead etc.

What do people think.

 

 

C.

[hamilton]

Hi Collingwood - that's how the Blandford is represented in Goodwin's book - and also how I finished my variation on the Greyhound kit...I used a mixture of Golden Oak and Natural stain (minwax) to obtain the finish on the outboard bulwarks.

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

I have finished bulkheading the frame and cutting out the under deck beams etc, i have done abit of a mod-con on the troubled bh's as spoken about by hamilton, my workflow here and idea was to start with the top of the keel where the bh cut outs are, my theory was to create a gentle slop towards the middle and produce a sheer, this would make correcting the 2 bh's a little less work, i also built up with a bit of balsa the difference in deck hight to keep a corresponing sheer.

My next job after the keel/bh assembly is set will be to sand down and smooth edges abit, then i will give the bulkhead frames abit of shaping, then the next job on my list will be to give the inside deck sections a lick of white wash, then i will start panking the lower deck.

 

 

C.

 

 

 

 

[hamilton]

Hi Collngwood - as with my Greyhound, it seems like bulkheads 9 & 10 on yours are a little high off the bearding line. You'll need to shim those up - though I don't think as much as I had to by the look of things. When you run your battens along the hull to check the run of planks, you may find that the deficiencies in bulkheads 9 and 10 run quite far up the edges - mine did. Though maybe you won't have as serious a problem to deal with....

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Thanks for that hamilton, i see quite abit of work in the bh department, that is why i have tried to take 9/10 down as far as i can and correct the upper section more so, i have found a wondefull painting of frigates in 1720s era being built on the thames and it shows these ships had such a dramatic amount of sheer compared to alter period ships.

Anyway i have continued onwards today with strengthening the hull, and helping to keep everything square and plumb by cutting and fitting lengths of balsa between the bh's, then to help with planking around the bow towards the bowspite i have fitted some strips of balsa that i will sand back to form a rounded shape.

Here are the pics...

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

I have just finished farring the hull bh frames, only took 10 hours of sanding - checking - sanding etc etc(talk about saw hands) anyway i think i have gotten away with out any frame fillers and all frames now look online and thier bottoms lign up with the bearding line and show a nice equal gap for the keel extension, i have also checked the reference points and sanded back the decks where they meet the frames, some small sections of the frame have a gap around the frame extrusions but these will be covered by the planking, i also achieved a nice even curve around the bow(the filler sections realy helped here).

Next will be to remove the decks as they are only dry fitted, then when my paint arrives i will give the lower deck frame sections a lick of whitewash then start decking the lower deck area.

 

 

C.

[Old Collingwood]

I have started on setting some planking on the lower deck, i have done this by creating a template then transfering to card, this i have split in two equal sections to aid placing through the bh sections, i have planked one side of the lower deck and sanded, i have decided to leave the decking a natural wood color and just treat with a plain clear mat varnish/clear cote.

When i plank the upper deck i would like to replicate the bleached effect as seen on real decks, due to years of salt water holy stoning, not sure how i can lighten the deck planks that come with the kit (any ideas folks)?

 

 

C.