Venetian Carrack or Cocha by woodrat - FINISHED - 1/64

[Louie da fly]

I've been giving the built up mast issue a little thought. As I'm sure you know, the masts of later, bigger ships were also built up, but with the individual pieces locking together so closely (a little like lego) that there would be very little chance of them coming apart, and the joins of individual pieces being all but invisible. And of course held together with the wooldings.

 

The ships of the 15th century were probably the first to be big enough (especially with that enormous mainsail, with the ensuing huge forces) to need such large masts that they had to be built up (because single trees weren't big enough to supply the timber) - even before the advent of the carrack, when ships only had a single mast as in the ships in the second picture here (which are labelled as 14th century but are in fact 15th).

 

However, it seems to me that the shipbuilders of the time would have been sophisticated and skilful enough not to just whack a bunch of poles together and hope the wooldings would keep them from coming apart. I think they'd likely have been made from triangular sections with the apexes converging at the centre of the mast, and rounded off to form a circular section. Later improvements as above would have made them more secure still, but this would have been a pretty good start.

 

Opinion only, but might be helpful.

 

Steven 

Edited October 14, 2015 by Louie da fly

[Louie da fly]

Dick,

 

A few more pics of carracks I came across. The Meister Der Ursulalegende one (I had to extract details from the main painting, otherwise the picture would have been too big to upload) backs up your ideas about the tumblehome at the bow, and the others are very interesting.

 

The da Costa one appears to have been mostly copied from the Roberti (I'm pretty sure it's that way around because of the mistakes in the da Costa version, such as the square sail at the mizzen and the misinterpretation of the anti-boarding timbers at the bow).

 

Best wishes,

 

Steven

Edited October 15, 2015 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

 Thanks, Steven. I agree that the 15th century mastmakers had the skill to fabricate multipiece masts  but do not think that the wedges would extend to the centre. The illustration from the Tavola Strozzi shows a square section just below the maintop about which the forestay is secured and which is above the shrouds. This indicates to me that there is a large central spar with either a square or octagonal cross-section to which the external spars are secured by wooldings.

Dick

Edited October 16, 2015 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

You've got a very good eye for detail, Dick. I hadn't spotted that.

 

I think your idea is very likely the right one, better than mine I think.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Tadeusz43 has pointed out that I used his photo of the Nao Victoria without attribution and I apologise for that unreservedly. The offending photo has been deleted. Sorry Tadeusz.

Dick

Edited October 15, 2015 by woodrat

[dgbot]

I have just read your build log and am really impressed with what you have achieved from the initial research to the workmanship.  The model resembles the ones in the photos tremendously.  Are you going to write up your work for the NRG Journal?  I think it would be accepted instantly.  It belongs in a museum for that time period.

David B

[woodrat]

Thanks, David. I have not considered that. What is the mechanism? I am not a NRG member. Is that a requirement?

Cheers.

Dick

[dgbot]

Chuck is a director and you are a member by joining this forum.  Check it out with him and I believe he will say yes.

David B

[Louie da fly]

Just discovered some more (Italian) pictures of the hulls of carracks (or "proto-carracks" - no masts are shown, so they may be single-masted). They're from the Codex Vallardi, a book of sketches and life studies by Pisanello, who died in about 1455.  Some really good details.

 

Hope you enjoy these as much as I did.

 

Steven

 

PS: The dragons may not have been drawn from life . . . 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

Where DO you find these things? I have not seen them afore. Some are clearly sketches of nefs used as table ornaments or salt cellars by the nobility.  Often these were made of silver but sometimes combined with precious stones or even nautilus shells. Few of these nefs have survived to the modern era.

"Burghley nef" by The original uploader was VAwebteam at English Wikipedia https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burghley_nef.jpg#/media/File:Burghley_nef.jpg

The most detailed one seems to be a votive model. Of note is the presence of a "loading port" as seen in the famous "Kraeck" illustration of the flemish master W A. Very interesting! Note also the ventilation ports AND the apparent projecting beams at the level of the mainwales!!! As in the Trombetta illustration!!!

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Well, usually I just stumble across them while looking for something else. It all depends on the wording you put into the google image search.

 

I agree they look like they're done from models, but I think the artist has also added to the decoration on his own account just to make a better picture. And are the scuppers aligned to the projecting deck beams? It's hard to make out . . .

 

And here's another one I came across yesterday. It looks like others I've seen, but I don't think I've come across it before. Some very interesting details. Look at the shape of the blocks and deadeyes! And is that wattling (basketweaving with willow twigs) on the aftercastle? It'd make sense - very lightweight construction.

 

Steven

Edited October 17, 2015 by Louie da fly

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Silver & gold central table piece from Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nuremberg.

 

Tadeusz

[dgbot]

I would love to have that in the house looks fine.

David B

[Louie da fly]

Found another one - this is described simply as "school of Du"rer, c.1500". So it's presumably a German vessel - but not necessarily. Quite similar to W.A's Kraek, but with some interesting variations.

 

Oh, and I've managed to chase down the pictures I thought were of Portuguese carracks (on a much earlier page of this thread). They turn out to be Spanish, from a painted church panel celebrating a naval victory in 1475, and one of the ships is actually a named vessel, the Zumaia, the flagship of the Spanish admiral.

 

Steven

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Models of Peter von Danzig:

Foto 1 Model in Maritime Museum in Gdańsk

Foto 2 Model in Polish Navy Museum in Gdynia

Foto 3 -5 My model

 

Tadeusz

[woodrat]

 

 

Look at the shape of the blocks and deadeyes! And is that wattling (basketweaving with willow twigs) on the aftercastle? It'd make sense - very lightweight construction.

 

Steven

I don't think deadeyes would be correct for this era, at least not the mediterranean. I will go with pendants and blocks as seem to be shown in Carpaccio. The wattling may be a good idea for some of the windbreaks of the quarterdeck accommodation.

 

Great model Tadeusz, which plans did you use?

dick

[Tadeusz43]

Hi Dick,

Plans was from Associazione Navimodellisti Bolognes, Bologne Italy .http://www.anb-online.it/?lang=en

Actual price 12,81 Euro ( wthout postage )

With my modifications.

 

This original ship was constructed in Bretagne, France.

 

Tadeusz

Edited October 18, 2015 by Tadeusz43

[woodrat]

I think triangular deadeyes are correct but more likely to be found in northern europe as in the W A Kraeck

. The Mediterranean practice seems more likely to have been pendants and blocks

 

Some of these blocks were massive and elongated

 

These are just my opinions. Certainly I would not criticise the choice of deadeyes. There would have been much regional variability

Dick

[woodrat]

Masts in larger vessels of the middle ages were "made" masts. That is to say, made of several spars shaped and scarfed together and then surrounded by hemp wooldings usually nailed to the mast. This is seen well in this mid 15th century illustration from the Trombetta manuscript.

Only smaller vessels had pole mainmasts made from a single spar. Foremasts and mizzen masts were usually single spars.

 

Although maststeps commonly are preserved with the keel in shipwrecks, surviving masts are not usually found. An exception is the Woolwich ship found in 1912 (R.C. Anderson Mariner’s Mirror May 1959) and thought to be the Sovereign 600 tons of 1488 (W Salisbury MM 47 1961) . This wreck had a surviving 10 foot stump of mainmast still in its step. It was 1.32 metres in circumference. By my calculations, this would make it 42cm in diameter at its base.

 

I have elected to attempt a "made" mast based on the Woolwich ship This will have a central large spar octagonal in shape (the spindle or spyndell) with 8 filling pieces surrunding it. Below deck level the mast would probably remained octagonal but would be rounded above deck level.

 

 

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Dick, you just keep on coming up with the most amazing stuff. I'd never heard of the Woolwich ship.

 

Does the Mariner's Mirror article show the make up of the mast? If so, it's an invaluable resource for us 15th-16th century junkies.

 

Steven 

[woodrat]

The article by Salisbury has a diagram of the mast remnants. It is also found in the excellent monograph "The Good Ship" by Ian Friel. I cant reproduce here because of copyright.

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Dick, you're a mine of information.

 

Following your post I did a google search and found this article available on-line which deals, among others, with the Woolwich ship, including diagrams showing the mast in cross section and in side view, as well as the remnants of the surviving frames up to about the turn of the bilge.

 

Thanks very much for this. It's really useful and very much appreciated. 

 

Steven 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Louie da fly

[Louie da fly]

Whilst browsing, I came across this site - discovery of the animal figurehead of Gribshunden, a Danish royal ship which burned and sank in 1495. 

 

Though it's from the far north,this figurehead is very similar to examples in the pictorial record, including ones from Spain as outlined in this site, and I've also seen at least one of a Mediterranean ship (though from a German source - it's a record of a German man's pilgrimage to Jerusalem).

 

And here's another report with LOTS of pictures from several angles.

 

Dick, this might be applicable to your nave tonda. At the least it's very interesting!

 

Steven 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

, this might be applicable to your nave tonda. At the least it's very interesting!

 

Steven 

Thanks, Steven. This is a very good find! It matches some of the carrack figureheads seen in 15th century illustrations.

 I based my figurehead for the half-hull model on this sort of beast 

 

 

 

A similar beast may be made out on the trombetta illustration.

 

 

Here is the figurehead for the Kraek vessel

 

 

Cheers

Merry Xmas

Dick

[woodrat]

Sorry for the delay in posting. I have now completed the sterncastle including the somewhat jury-rigged appearance of the carpentry on the shelter itself (this is seen on the original Trombetta document and presumably indicates that the sterncastle shelter was temporary and easily disassembled or cut away in an emergency)

 

 

 

 

I have provided some very basic accommodation or shelter for passengers on the quarterdeck which can be accessed by ladders. There is evidence from contemporary illustrations for such accommodation.

 

 

 

Now to do the forecastle shelter which is more challenging as it is asymmetrical to accommodate the foremast.

Dick

 

 

 

[woodrat]

This is as close as I can get to how the forecastle is depicted in the original drawing. Note the asymmetry (foremast not yet stepped). The bowsprit sticks out over the starboard rail of the forecastle. Again, the carpentry is crude and appears temporary.

 

 

 

 

the forecastle from aft. There were no crew quarters. They slept where they could find shelter. Hammocks were unknown.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by woodrat

[GLakie]

She looks marvelous Dick! I can appreciate the amount of research that goes into a project like this with "record-keeping" being what it was back then. 

[woodrat]

I can appreciate the amount of research that goes into a project like this with "record-keeping" being what it was back then. 

thanks, George. It's not that they kept records, they didn't. They kept secrets of shipbuilding which were handed down within the guilds. People were probably murdered to maintain these secrets . Cheers Dick

[Louie da fly]

Nice to see you back again, Dick. Excellent work as usual. You're producing a real gem.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Thanks, Steven. The new workshop is not fully set up but am starting to work again. I have a vague plan to do a reconstruction of that mysterious beast, the hulc (hulk, holk) once I rig the carrack. How is the dromon going?

Cheers

Dick