Venetian Carrack or Cocha by woodrat - FINISHED - 1/64

[woodrat]

And Dick, sorry for derailing this thread - getting back to the subject, I just remembered a link I have to a site on the early 15th century ship designer Michael of Rhodes,

Steven

Thanks Steven, its a fascinating topic, the dromon. The third volume of the MIT edition of Michael of Rhodes is probably the most useful for the shipmodeller

 

I continue to be astounded by the quality of the works displayed here on this forum.

 

S.os

That's why we keep coming back, we're addicted Dick

Edited February 2, 2014 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Also two huge invasions by Vikings from their settlements in Russia. Nasty stuff, Greek fire.

 

Dick, I should have known you'd already know about Michael of Rhodes .

 

Steven

Edited February 2, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

Steven, you may like this article on Yenikapi:  http://woam2013.com/yenikapi-info.pdf

Edited February 3, 2014 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Very nice (BTW - the last letter of "pdf" in the address bar is missing in that link, but soon remedied).

 

But I'd far rather they'd done a reconstruction of YK16 than YK12. Still, who'd they get to row it? (Me, for a start!)

 

Steven

[woodrat]

   Keel, stem and sternpost elements ready for cutting. The keel will be in two lengths scarfed together as will the stem post but the sternpost will of course be a single timber

Bulkheads are cut and ready to go

Dick

 

.

Edited February 8, 2014 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Dick, that's coming along nicely. I look forward to seeing photos of it "in the flesh" (or in this case, timber).

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Some progress. Keel, stempost and sternpost in place and bulkheads positioned..

 

Dick

Edited February 9, 2014 by woodrat

[captainbob]

Ah, now its coming together.

 

Bob

[overdale]

 

 

I just posted this on Vivian's caravel log but I thought it might be useful to you too as a rigging reference..?

 

Dan.

[Louie da fly]

Very nice. Good to see her taking shape.

 

Dan, from Vivien's log I see you're planning to make that carrack as a waterline model. That's the ship from the Beauchmp Pageant mentioned above, and the sail bears the arms of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick. Are plans available for her, or have you drawn them up yourself?

 

Steven

Edited February 12, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

 

 

I just posted this on Vivian's caravel log but I thought it might be useful to you too as a rigging reference..?

 

Dan.

Thanks, Dan. The original book is beyond my price range but there is a softcover reprint. What concerns me is that I am unsure whether my carrack had two or three masts. It was a large vessel so three seems more likely but the fact that the bowsprit is displaced to starboard suggest a foremast. However the framing for the awning on the forecastle suggests otherwise. What do you think?

[overdale]

I think there was a foremast. It's possible those frames were a 'knockdown' construction, perhaps used to get extra sleeping/storage space when covered with canvas.

I don't know if you've seen the model in the UK Science museum (attached below). I remember seeing it as a child..!

I think that looks about right. There are four masts on the book cover illustration one too many in my view.

 

 

 

Steven,

I do have some old faded single sheet drawings of basic lines for several different cogs. I'll see if I can find them. 

 

Dan.

Edited February 14, 2014 by overdale

[woodrat]

I am unhappy with two things on my previous model:

1. the tumblehome aft of centre is insufficient

2. There is a more horizontal run of planking to the fashion piece and a more vertical run to the sternpost leading to a more complex shape to the stern.

 

I will modify the full hull version accordingly

 

Dick

[woodrat]

I have finished all the bulkheads and have almost finished fairing them. I am more happy that the shape of the stern matches the original drawing and other illustrations of the period

Dick

[tarbrush]

looking really good Dick, your half hull came out so awesome, it's exciting to follow your build!

[captainbob]

Now that you can see her lines, she's looking good.

 

Bob

[NenadM]

My admiral is in love with carrak, and forced me to chose Her for next build. Considering in mind that my next build will not start next 2 years, it is time to start learn. Your log is usseful lesson, and you are good teacher. Go on!

[woodrat]

Thanks Tarbrush, Bob and Nenad M. I am learning more and more about carracks. For instance, this carrack forecastle from late 15th century shows how the carpenters built the framework for their awning assymetric to allow for the foremast. This may explain the somewhat bizarre appearance of this framework on the Trombetta drawings. The position of the foremast also forced the positioning of the bowsprit to one side or other of the mast. These were no nonsense working ships and often aesthetics took second place to practicalities. also, as this illustration from the battle of Zonchio shows, round ships were often co-opted as warships in mediaeval times as their high riding hulls gave them a height advantage over galleys. Cheers, Dick

[woodrat]

The transverse deeck beams are now fitted. I have a theory that the protruding deck beams seen on carracks were used  to house the scuppers as scuppers at deck level arent seen on contemporary illustrations whereas dots or holes are sometimes seen in the end of the protruding deck beams.

 

[NenadM]

Maybe will be interesting photo of  this model I take this summer in Maritime museum of Kotor, Montenegro

 

Model is based on ships used in Venetia, by famous middle age traders of Venetian republic

 

 

About details and eventualy contact, see link below

 

http://www.museummaritimum.com/eng/eng.htm

 

Also, if you are pleased, I suggest you to contact Croatian maritime museums in Split, Dubrovnik, Rijeka ... I suppose have data and documents about this kind of ship. In whole middle ages, Dubrovnik, as Venetia , was independent trade city, lot of trade ship trafic went there

 

In Serbian/Croatian language, for this ship is used name "karaka" and you can google it for deeper research

 

Nenad 

Edited March 5, 2014 by Nenad M

[woodrat]

Maybe will be interesting photo of  this model I take this summer in Maritime museum of Kotor, Montenegro

 

Model is based on ships used in Venetia, by famous middle age traders of Venetian republic

 

In Serbian/Croatian language, for this ship is used name "karaka" and you can google it for deeper research

 

Nenad 

Thank you for the link, Nenad. The model shown is certainly a venetian carrack and is quite old. It looks somewhat like the carracks in Jacopo de Barbari's panorama of Venice.

Good idea to get information or pictures of models from Dubrovnik, Split and Rijeka. They, as you say, were on venetian trading routes for centuries. The Trombetta nave certainly would have visited them regularly.

Cheers

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Dick, your noting of the asymmetrical frame over the forecastle and the idea of scuppers within the protruding deck beams are very interesting. Full marks for observation! 

 

By the way, I've just found some high res pics of Tavola Strozzi's 1465 painting of the return of the Aragonese fleet to Naples after the Battle of Ischia, with some nice pics of carracks. They're at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tavola_strozzi_(flotta_aragonese_al_ritorno_della_battaglia_di_ischia_il_12_luglio_1465),_1465-1500_ca.,_11982,_02.JPG and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tavola_strozzi_(flotta_aragonese_al_ritorno_della_battaglia_di_ischia_il_12_luglio_1465),_1465-1500_ca.,_11982,_08_pontile.JPG. Click on each pic to zoom in.

 

And better res pics of Carpaccio's Legend of St Ursula at http://www.lessingimages.com/search.asp?a=L&lc=202020204423&ln=Galleria+dell'Accademia%2C+Venice%2C+Italy&p=1

 

These are somewhat obscured by the watermark but if you click on each picture, and then click again,  you can get a zoom with very good detail - better than I've managed to find before.

 

Hope these are helpful. 

 

Steven

Edited March 10, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

Thanks Steven, useful links with good detail. The watermarks dont bother me much

 

The model is moving along. Having done the garboard strake and the various wales, The planking is straight forward.

[Vivian Galad]

Following your build with great interest. Very precise work till here.

[Louie da fly]

Looking very good.

 

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Thanks, Vivian and Steven. Here is the progress of planking to the level of the turn of the stringer at the outer end of the floors

Fitting the stealers

stealer glued in position

planking complete to first stringer

 

 

Here is another similar carrack. Note the triangular topsail and the forward positioned foremast. I will base my rig upon this illustration

 

 

Dick

Edited March 31, 2014 by woodrat

[woodrat]

These pictures show the transversal bitt in place although not fixed in place. These bitts were a typical feature of the carrack and were probably not meant to be rigidly fixed to the toptimbers. They were however quite massive.

Here is a picture of the Mataro nao showing the transversal bitt.

This shows the step for the foremast

 

Dick

[woodrat]

Planking progress to main wale

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Nice work. Watching progress with great interest.

 

BTW, can you tell me the source of the carrack picture you're basing the rigging on? It's excellent!

 

 

Steven

Edited April 10, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

 

 

BTW, can you tell me the source of the carrack picture you're basing the rigging on? It's excellent!

 

 

Steven

It comes from the National Maritime Museum Collection at Greenwich. I have searched their website but cant find it.

Here is a better image

Dick

Edited April 30, 2014 by woodrat