Solder brass rod for deadeye

[cog]

I need to solder the brass hoops which go around the deadeyes as the rods need to be shortened. Should I do that with a standard soldering iron, or with a torch.

[BareHook]

I think a small iron would be preferred, with a torch its difficult to create a clean precision joint (i.e. you can use the tip to manipulate the solder and rod.

[trippwj]

Carl - probably better off silver soldering with a torch (based on what I have been advised in response to a very similar question).  Also see this thread for a neat way of doing this.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/487-chain-plates/

[Chuck]

Check out the tutorial here in the database for silver soldering.

 

Chuck

[russ]

Silver soldering is muuuuuch better than soft soldering. Silver soldering will create a more reliable joint.

 

Russ

[BANYAN]

Hi Cog, I also prefer to Silver Solder, however, I have found for smaller items (such as deadeye straps, closing eyes etc) that a gas powered pencil iron (butane gas ) with solid pointed tip provides sufficient heat (bigger jobs will need a the open flame).

 

For your jon where you need a bit of strength the silver soder would be better (as Russ has pointed out). Using a tip oon the torch also has better control to mimimise any scorching of the wooden deadeyes if you are soldering anywhere near them.

 

Good luck

 

Pat

Edited February 23, 2013 by BANYAN

[russ]

The deadeye straps are made without the deadeyes being placed in the straps. You insert the deadeyes in the straps after they are made. That way the heat is not an issue.

 

Russ

[druxey]

I agree with Russ. Brass is soft enough to form easily around the deadeye after silver soldering. That way there will not be risk of a small fire!

[cog]

Everybody: Thank you for your advice. I went with the silver solder without point, just the flame.

 

I use a Proxxon and it was just the plain torch I got, no accessories. My setup was simple, chalc block, a third and fourth hand only used the forth, the third was busy I must say, soldering with a torch, works like a charm

 

Some images for non-believers ...

[russ]

Carl:

Nice job on the chainplates. That is really very good work.

 

Russ

[dgbot]

Nicely done.  Once you clean them up they will look perfect.  Once you learn how to silver solder you will find many uses for it. Just remember the adage cleanilness is next to holiness.  This makes the cleanup easier.  Good work.

David B

Edited February 24, 2013 by dgbot

[russ]

I always file my soldered joints afterwards. If the joint is done properly, the filing will clean them up with no problems. After that, they can be chemically toned and they looks just fine.

 

Russ

[cog]

David,

 

Thanks for the praise and the advice.

[cog]

Russ,

 

I noticed that - the filing. However, the brass rod is not completely straight, so I'll be using some fine sandpaper to. I don't have any chemical stain. That will have to come later, I'll be staining it with humbrol 'gun metal' paint this time.

[russ]

Carl:

The shape of the piece does not matter when it comes to filing. Straight or curved, angled etc really will not make a difference. You just need to have an assortment of 4 inch jeweler's files that you can use on the various parts.

 

Russ

[Børge]

Silver soldering on brass works like a dream, i you have  multiple items to solder on thar sam object, get solder with different melting temps.

i have used this for my fitings, and it workd great.

 

Børge

[cog]

Russ,

 

Thanks for the tip.

[cog]

Børge,

 

I love your work on the Dragon.

 

You've got me puzzled. What do you mean by solder with different melting points. I thought silversolder would have a single melting point, or does it depend on the quantity of silver (or another component) it contains ...

Edited February 25, 2013 by cog

[RiverRat]

Here's an example of three different melting points:

http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-840.html

 

My soldering stuff is being shipped as I type; haven't done this work yet. But if you have two joints close together to solder, I believe you would solder one joint with the higher temp, and the second with the lower, so as not to undo the first. Someone chime in if I have this incorrect, please!

 

Brian

[russ]

Brian:

I have silver soldered joints fairly close to one another on several occasions and I have always used the higher temp solder and the torch. Never had any problems. It may be that there would be problems in certain insances, but I have not found them yet.

 

When I solder 4 eyes onto a mastband, it seems to work just fione using one temp of solder.

 

Russ

[dgbot]

The reason for this is the properties  of silver solder.  Each time the solder is heated certain elements are used up and this will raise the melting temp.  I have soldered joints right next to each other and the previous joint never came lose.

David B

Edited February 26, 2013 by dgbot

[Neill]

Whilst silver soldering produces a stronger joint, you need to consider what, if any, load the joint will be put under.  Soft soldering produces strong and neat joint easily, witness the etched brass locomotive models I and others make.  Unless the item will be subject to heating in operation (clearly not the case here) soft solder will be fine and more easily applied to produce a neat joint.

 

The secret with either is to ensure the item to be soldered is spotlessly clean, and use ample flux.

[cog]

Gary,

 

Where is the fun in fotoetched sets, whilst you can make your own ... Besides, look at your signature: Problems are just challenges waiting for your solution.

[russ]

I agree that some soldered joints are not under stress, however, soft soldered joints will not take chemcial toning while silver soldered joints will. Of course, you can always paint the pieces, but that will often obscure details. As for flux, I use a prefluxed soldering paste.

 

In the case of deadeye strops and chainplates, they will be under some sort of stress at some point and that is why silver soldering is really the best option for those joints. I have had soft soldered joints in deadeye straps come loose and it leaves the shrouds limp. If I had silver soldered those joints, it would not have happened. This same reasoning applies to eye bolts or rings used in tackles, or eyes on mastbands.

 

Russ

[Neill]

Sorry to differ with you Russ, but you can chemically black soft solder.  There is a company called Carrs who make a range of soldering and chemical blacking products and I believe these are available in or importable to the US.

 

In terms of strength, silver solder will always be better, and for work like Borge shows, where the stress is at an angle to the joint, much the better choice.  For joints that will only be in tension or compression it may not be necessary though.

[russ]

I am not familar with Carrs in modeling work. However, if it works, that is a good thing. I am not certain of the availability and I can only relate what I have learned from my experience with soldering. I hope that it is helpful to someone.

 

Russ

[Neill]

Russ

You have every excuse for not having heard of Carrs, they are a UK company and primarily sell to the model railway market.  In the Uk model railways  have the big "support" in terms of products for modelmakers, certainly compared to model boats.  Inevitably these tend to be small suppliers, selling via exhibtions (no good for people who can't get there) or the web (great - but only if you know where to look).

 

I can certainly recommend Carrs products as I use them a lot, I have attached a link;

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/

[russ]

Thanks. As I have never had any problems with Brass Black from Bluejacket Shipcrafters, that is what I will continue to use.

 

Russ

[Garward]

For these dead eye the corresponding chain are made of a brass wire with a diameter of 0,75 and 1,5 mm. The template in the form of the brass cylinder with a diameter of 7 mm pierced under diameters of dead eye is used. The brass hoops which go around the deadeyes are soldered by a gas torch with application of argentiferous solder (40% of silver). In this case application of soft solders on the basis of tin gives insufficiently strong connection which can easily collapse at installation and a tension of shrouds  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/82-montanes-by-garward-occre/page-12

Edited March 16, 2013 by Garward

[Garward]

Continuation