HMS Royal William by KeithW - Euromodel - 1/72

[Kevin]

KEITH. lovely to see you back, and impressed with the way the build has progressed

[BANYAN]

Welcome back mate; she is coming along very nicely (pity my spelling isn't - fixed in edit).  You'll have to bring her along to a meeting again soon (I won't be at the next one - travelling).

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 17, 2016 by BANYAN

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith

I'm just wondering, when we'll see your latest update of your transom?

You method is so unique and I'm sure it will be copied over and over again.

Not trying to push you along, but my face is starting to turn a very dark shade of red,from holding my breath between your posting. ...lol

[Keith_W]

Thanks Greg, but given that there are some of MSW's finest modellers watching this thread I am kind of intimidated. I am actually ... redoing the transom. Yes that's right, I finished making the part, decided I wasn't happy with it, and decided to do it again. I have very little time these days so this decision was not taken lightly. 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

OMG Why. It look good to me!

Greg

[Keith_W]

Why, here we are again. What's kept me so busy?

 

 

VERSION SIX OF THOSE BLOODY REAR WINDOWS, THAT'S WHAT!!!

 

You can see that I have actually completed one set of rear windows but decided it's not good enough and attempt another one. Why? Because I didn't read the plans properly.

 

 

These are the previously completed set of rear windows. I had a feeling that something was not right with the look of the windows, that they looked kind of lopsided from some angles, but OK from other angles. It took me a while to figure it out ... that's when I realized that I had aligned them vertically when I built them.

 

 

The plans actually call for them to be aligned according to the shape of the hull, tapering towards the apex in perspective. I went through and made another set, paying attention to this detail which I overlooked the first time around.

 

 

I didn't show construction pictures because you know full well how these are made from my previous failed attempts.

 

You can see from the above several features of the new part (in the first picture, the new part is sitting on top, in the second picture, it's on the bottom):

 

1. The angles of the windows which I have already talked about.

2. The new part now has an interior. You can vaguely see it in the second picture.

3. The column decoration on the new part looks neater. I tried a different approach this time.

4. The windows are now outlined in black paint. It makes them look more prominent.

[CaptainSteve]

Lately, it seems that all the great builders are in the midst of re-dos ... oh, and me.

[Keith_W]

With that done, it is time to turn my attention to the construction of the next level deck.

 

 

This is where I am up to at the moment:

 

1. The lower deck windows have been completed (see above post).

2. The middle deck verandah (is that what you call it?) has been cut out.

3. Perspex blanks of the middle deck gallery have been shaped. Here you see them being tested for fit. There is a plywood spacer of exactly the correct height helping maintain the upper part in position while I check for alignment. Also note the three pilot holes drilled through both parts - passing a dowel through the blanks brings them into perfect alignment.

4. A cardboard blank of the upper deck verandah has been made (see below).

 

 

Before I proceed, I thought it would be prudent to check that I have all the angles correct with reference to the plans. I used the keel to take the horizontal reading, then rotated the image in Photoshop.

 

One thing which has troubled me for a long time is the angle of the poop deck (see below). All the decks are inclined with respect to the wales, but not the poop deck. The poop deck is inclined with respect to the other decks. This is quite unnerving when you install the poop deck, and see that the angle of all the lower decks seem to be off. Not so! this is correct!. The plans say so!

 

 

Once again, image rotated with Photoshop using the keel as horizontal reference. You can see that the angles are way off with respect to the plans, but to be fair I didn't really take the trouble to center the image correctly (my fault!). By eye they look correct.

 

Note that the angle of the transom is different to the angle of the rudder. There is a substantial difference in angle - 18 degrees! I did not realize this and have been building the transom to accept the same inclination as the rudder. Not too late, all of the decks only exist as prototypes!

Edited April 4, 2016 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

Yes Brian, i'll see you on Wednesday! I know it's a bit of trouble, but would you be able to bring your RW along? There are some things on your ship that I would like to take reference from.

[Telp]

There is a programme shown on Sundays in the UK called "The antiques roadshow" on last nights episode they had a model of the William which was hand built by a guy, it took him 30 years to make the hull and all the fittings including all the furniture etc. Sadly before he had time to do any rigging he died. They quoted a selling price of around £4,000 pounds, it was a stunning bit of work and to think every single part was hand made, it really was a lifetimes work, it was in 1/48 scale.

[Keith_W]

Are you suggesting that I am building it so slow that i'll be dead before I start the rigging?

 

Don't worry, i'm still quite young!

[NMBROOK]

Excellent work Keith  

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[GLakie]

You're doing a great job on her Keith, and like Steve says, there's a lot of guys going through the "re-do" thing right now. 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith

Brilliant work mate. I don't like the word re-do, I rather prefer enhancement! Your enhancement will make one hell of tje difference mate. Keep up the great work and havagooday.

Greg

[Keith_W]

A number of decks have now been progressed. Not yet completed, because some of them need to be touched up or redone. Here they are, from the bottom up - incidentally, also showing how tight I have made them fit against the bulkhead:



First, the bottom windows which have been the subject of my last few posts.



The middle deck. Note the pattern of the planking. By this stage I realized that I was at least 2mm too tall, so I was trying to save half a millimeter here and there. The deck is carefully planked around the rear gallery to save some height.

Despite this, this part is destined for the rubbish bin. I do not like the effect of the joggled planks, and it turns out that I made this deck about 2mm too wide (which means that when it comes to shave it, it will cut into the joggled planks). I suppose I could ignore it and hope nobody notices ... but I would rather redo it.



Next, the rear gallery. Columns and doors have not yet been added.



The upper deck. The bottom has been planked, but not the top.

You can see the supports for the poop cabin (to come in the deck above). This is unsupported by any structure, so I decided to make a wooden lattice structure to strengthen it.



The upper gallery. As you can see, still under construction.

Note the hole cut through the gallery to accomodate the wooden lattice and the cabling for the poop LED's.



And finally, the poop deck. Despite all the effort to save height, I am off by 1mm. The poop deck will have to be shimmed by 1mm to raise it to fit the pre-cut transom. This is the advantage of building the features together (as opposed to constructing the poop deck first as some other RW builders have done) - I am able to adjust features as required.



I also decided to excavate some holes for the rear gunports and attach the rear decoration at this point.

I have stolen VinceP's idea and added a black line to the strip.



The decoration was hand drawn after a night on the booze. They will have to be painted over and redone.



An important feature of the rear galleries is that they slope according to the shape of the hull. You can also see that I have maintained the imaginary vertical line that goes straight through the windows of each deck.



Likewise, the sideways view shows that the middle and upper galleries are perfectly aligned. Also note that the each deck follows the line of the wales - an important feature that PiratePete exhorted upon in his "interpretative info". 



... and this is where we are now Note that nothing has been glued, what you see above is "only" a dry fit! The parts have been cut so nicely that they just slot straight in and hold their shape without glue.

I hope to have all the galleries finished by this weekend. There is a model show coming up, and I hope to have the whole stern finished by then.

Edited April 14, 2016 by KeithW

[Kevin]

wow - that looks fantastic, well done

[marktiedens]

Very nice - those galleries will be my next order of business .

 

Mark

[BANYAN]

Some really great progress.  That is a very interesting technique you are employing with the perspex and it was great to see it live at our last meeting.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith

Brilliant work to say the lease! The perspex idea is a way of the future for all the coming RW builders. The alignment if the transom is dead vertical. ... well done mate!

Happymodelling

Greg

[John Maguire]

Keith,

 

That is an intriguing progression of pictures. Doesn't it look like you have it nailed now?

 

Respectfully,

John Maguire

Seattle

[Keith_W]

Gulp, it looks as if the big guns on this forum are watching this build now! It is a little intimidating, so I better not slip up now!

 

Thank you so much for all the likes and comments everyone, it is very encouraging. 

Constructing those stern galleries was my biggest concern prior to buying this kit. I knew what those metal plates would look like, from studying pictures on Euromodel's site and a few other RW's which I googled. I also knew that any mistake with the construction of the hull, even by a couple of mm, would have me either shaving off height from the metal plates, or somehow trying to add height to it (e.g. making the decks thicker!). I am not so brave as to set the vertical and bottom limit on the stern by constructing the poop deck and attaching the lower transom as some other RW builders have done. Even though I knew I would be attempting to build my own galleries, I still wanted insurance in case my efforts failed and I had to use those metal plates. So Mark - I wish you good luck with your build. I am following your updates closely and thinking to myself that I wish I had done that.

John, having built a few of those galleries now I can tell you that this technique definitely works. The biggest issue is to find a supply of plastic that is compatible with CA glue. It actually does not matter if the CA fogs up the plastic - because, a dollop of canopy glue turns them clear again! It's amazing!

The ONLY issue to be concerned about with plastic and CA is that the CA does not make it brittle! It can sometimes take up to 24 hours before this becomes apparent - the plastic gets so brittle that it crumbles and cracks in your hand. 

 

Finding plastic that is compatible with CA accelerant is another matter. Best not to use it. I find that a single spray of accelerant is enough to make some plastics brittle. 

 

I apply the veneer strips to the plastic base using as little CA as possible. First, I CA up the wooden strip which I have pre-cut. I then wipe most of it off by smearing it on some paper. I apply it to the clear plastic carefully, then dab off any excess CA with tissue paper (if you work fast, the tissue paper does not stick to plastic). 

Edited April 12, 2016 by KeithW

[marktiedens]

Hi Keith - I have a question for you - when matching up the pieces 54 & 55 with the plans piece 54 appears to be the 18mm thick piece,while 55 appears to be the 13mm thick piece. My issue is that Pete`s info seems to indicate that 55 is the thicker piece & 54 the thinner one . It also appears that way in a drawing on page 25 of manual 2 of his info. which is correct? I guess what I really need to know is which piece goes on the bottom? Also on plan sheet 7 the top profile of piece 54 matches the thicker piece but on the side profile it looks like the thinner piece. The top profile of piece 55 matches the shape of the thinner piece but the side profile looks like the thicker piece

 

Mark

Edited April 13, 2016 by marktiedens

[Keith_W]

Hi Mark, 

 

Piece 55 is the THICKER piece, and it goes on the bottom. The plans indicate this, and PiratePete's I-I also indicates this. 

 

Piece 54 is the THINNER piece, and it goes on top. 

 

If you look at post #147 (page 8) and post #184 (page 10) in this build log, you will see how I fabricated these transom pieces, as well as a side profile picture of my build clearly showing that the thicker piece goes on the bottom. 

 

I am not sure why the outline of your pieces do not seem to match the outline given in the plans. I can tell you that there was no confusion which piece was which with mine. The pieces supplied in my kit matched the plans perfectly. As I recall, even down to the 13mm and 18mm thickness. Perhaps yours were accidentally cut with the correct profile and the wrong thickness? 

 

This is the relevant diagram from the plans: 

 

 

I have plenty to say about shaping these pieces, they were a real headache. In retrospect, one thing I should have done for others was to photograph the completed piece superimposed on the plans, so that you can check for yourself what my final shape was, vs. what the plans recommended. It is too late now, the pieces are glued to the model - but I have not yet glued over them! If you have any requests, feel free to ask. I might have some additional photos stashed away that might show the feature you are looking for. 

 

(edit) I may be able to photocopy the plans, cut out the outline of the pieces, and take a picture of them sitting on the model. Would you like me to do this for you? 

Edited April 14, 2016 by KeithW

[marktiedens]

Hi Keith - I took a couple of pics to show what I mean. The first pic has the thicker piece set on the plan sheet on top of the top profile,which matches perfectly. If you look at the side profile just above it,it appears that it should be the thinner piece.  The second pic has the thinner piece set on top of the top profile of the plans & matches perfectly,but the side profile above it shows that it should be the thicker piece. In other words,the pieces are shaped correctly but the thicknesses are reversed. Also if I set the thinner piece on top of the thicker one,it is a bit narrower. Does this look correct to you?

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

[Keith_W]

Mark, that is definitely an error with your kit. It looks as if they cut the correct profile to the wrong thickness of wood. That piece which has the profile of Part 55 (but is 13mm) ... MUST be 18mm. This is absolutely vital. Otherwise - not only will your stern look strange, but the decorations won't fit. 

 

Your options: 

 

1. Make a new part of correct thickness. This is simple to do if you own a scroll saw. 

 

2. Shim Part 55 and shave Part 54 till they are the correct thickness.* 

 

3. Contact Euromodel to ask for a replacement. This may be a good time to buy more half guns and gratings. You would have seen from PiratePete's I-I that Euromodel do not supply enough grating material to finish the build according to their plans. I am not able to confirm this, but I purchased more gratings just in case. 

 

* Note that both pieces are curved - the center is 2mm raised compared to the sides. You can confirm this by studying the plans, and by looking at the bottom edge of the pre-cut mahogany ply transom piece. Even the standard parts provided by Euromodel need shimming. I shaped Part 55 so that it was flat at the bottom, but 2mm raised in the center. This required a 2mm shim. As for part 54, I curved both top and bottom surfaces - 1mm shim on top in the center, and 1mm on bottom on the sides. Make sure you take this into account when you are shimming. 

 

Another word of warning for your build. You will see that PiratePete exhorts multiple times in his I-I that the inclination of the transom should follow the inclination of the wales. I see that you are planning to build the transom before you install the wales. I did mine the other way round - wales went on first, then transom. This was so that I could constantly remind myself of the correct inclination of the transom. Also, those walnut wales are a real monster to curve and fit. You can decide if you would rather try to fit them precisely to the transom whilst struggling with drying glue and not being able to clamp. Or if you think it's easier to glue the wales on first and then shave them later to fit the transom. For me, it was a no-brainer. 

 

If you decide to fit the wales after the transom, I urge you to mark out the line of the wales and make sure you follow the correct inclination when you are building your transom. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by KeithW

[marktiedens]

Hi Keith - that is my determination also. I have been in contact with Pete about this. He is going to contact Euromodel about this,but I am going forward & in the process of making new parts out of basswood. The basswood is a little easier to work with than that rock hard walnut anyway. Here are my nice new parts & thanks for your help & opinions

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

 

[Keith_W]

Very nice Mark, and don't forget to shim!  

[marktiedens]

Keith - as far as the wales go,I laid the first strip of the second planking at the position of the top of the lower wale & with the same curvature so lining up the angle of the transom pieces should not be a problem. As far as shimming the 2 transom parts,Pete says that after beveling for the camber the parts should end up with thicknesses of 10.5 & 13.5mm along their entire width. Will the assembly of these 2 parts not be high enough if I don`t shim them?

 

Mark

[Keith_W]

Perhaps Pete is right, Mark. After I shimmed my pieces, I ended up with about 1mm space for the decorations. They did not fit exactly. Perhaps you should proceed as Pete suggests, and then dry fit the decorations. If you have no space, you can always shim. 

[Keith_W]

Time for an update. Over the past week, it seems as if all I was doing was taking care of little details in preparation for the installation of the poop deck: 

 

 

... indeed there is quite a list. To make sure I don't forget, I had to make a list and tick them off one by one. Every now and then i'll think of something else and add it to my list. You can see my modelling style, I build my features on an A4 piece of paper (plenty to be recycled at the office). Whenever I think of something, I write it down. If I need to draw something, I just draw on it. It also catches all glue stains and keeps my self healing cutting board clean. 

 

 

First on the list was to make a set of cannon carriages. This had to be done because a pair of cannon carriages have to be installed before the poop deck goes on. If you check my post from February last year, I explained how I made them. On the left are kit supplied carriages. On the right are my scratchbuilt ones under construction. 

 

 

Because (horror of horrors) my deck features are a slightly different size to the Euromodel supplied parts (but correct according to the plans), I had to construct a new archway using the kit supplied archway as a template. 

 

 

The top gallery, seen in the previous post under construction, has now been completely veneered over and the windows have been installed. 

 

 

Whilst checking the poop deck for fit, I noticed that the hindmost part of the deck was off by 1mm! Not much, but enough to cause problems. The solution was to cut some material to bulk it up. 

 

 

The real transom was dry fitted after I curved it with a steam iron. As you can see, it aligns perfectly with the poop deck ... 

 

 

... and all the decks below. 

 

The sharp eyed will notice that the rearmost gunports have been closed over. This is because I positioned them incorrectly. The metal side decorations feature holes cut out for gunport locations! If your gunport holes are off by a fraction, they will not line up with the metal decorations! Mine were off by just 1mm. That's enough to make me close them over and cut them out again when I dry fit the side metal decorations. 

 

The upper wales have been brought all the way back to the stern, with a tiny gap cut for metal decorations. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by KeithW