HMS Pegasus by Landlubber Mike - Amati/Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[jwvolz]

Nicely done Mike!

[Martin W]

Those extensions look good, Mike.  I can't wait to see how they look as the build progresses.  I'll have to second Spy's concern, though.  The bit of work I've done with redheart showed that it can be crumbly at times, so if the grain doesn't run the lenght of a piece it will be brittle.  I also think it would actually look more natural for the grain to run the length of each piece, even when they abut, since that's how the wood would be used anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[riverboat]

Nice work on the extensions Mike,.......... your thinking on this project is impressing, I like the wood painting idea, this is going to be a very interesting build.

Frank

[Landlubber Mike]

Hey guys, thanks for chiming in.  It's funny, after I wrote my post, I was thinking that maybe I should have let the grain run vertically on the extensions.  Really, only four of the extensions will be fully visible (the ones at the rear of the forecastle and the ones at the front of the quarterdeck).  The others will still show the red color, but with limited visibility as they will be under the decks.  I'm not too concerned about the integrity of the material for these pieces, as really there will be no work done on them on the visible side - but definitely, point taken as I create other pieces, thank you!

 

Ian, I agree on keeping all the same colors.  I was thinking that I might be able to use stains on different woods, but each wood comes out a slightly different color with the same stain (with the exception of black).  So, I was stuck using the same wood for all the pieces.  I thought I could substitute walnut on some of the pieces, but in my kit, the walnut is in a variety of shades.  That meant that I could have used pear and stained it, or I could just use redheart.  The nice thing about Jeff's wood is that he matches the wood in your order, so you don't end up with various shades like I found in my kit.

 

Martin, I picked up the GF "Cranberry Red" over the weekend.  I might test that out on pear for my Lyme build, though I've really liked working with, and the color/grain of, the redheart.  Jeff mentioned that when redheart is exposed to sunlight, it turns an orangish color.  So he recommended a sealant with a UV protectant.  The guys at Woodcraft told me that those sealants break down over time anyway, so all you end up doing is delaying the inevitable.  Since I'm not expecting the expose the model to direct sunlight, I'm not too worried.  But, I thought that I'd pass that along.

[Trussben]

Nice work, Jeff's redheart looks awesome.

 

Ben

[Landlubber Mike]

Exciting development - I now have the skeleton of the hull.  And yes, that is one of my daughter's pink teddy bears in the background (too lazy to move it for the picture) 

 

 

 

I think I mentioned this before, but in terms of its "bones," this kit is very impressive.  The MDF for the keel, bulkheads and lower deck is flat and very strong.  Even more impressive is the fact that the fitting of the bulkheads and lower deck to the keel couldn't have been more perfect, as everything fit together like a glove.  I probably didn't need to glue the assembly together it fit so well, but I did end up gluing the bulkheads and lower deck onto the keel, and then added glue into all the seams between those pieces.  Other kit manufacturers could probably learn a good lesson from this kit.  After dealing with all the issues on the Corel Unicorn kit, I almost felt like I was cheating in only having to cut out the pieces and stick them together without needing to check for flatness, symmetry and conformity to the plans, fit, etc.

 

Oh, and Jeff's redheart was milled to a perfect 5mm in width.  Despite the very snug fit between the 5mm bulkheads and the lower deck, the lower deck slipped over the new extensions without any issues at all.  Thanks Jeff!

 

Next up I'm planning to add plywood blocks over the bottoms of the redheart extensions to help secure the joints.  I think the instructions call for one to add the upper deck template as well, so I'll be working on that.  I also need to take a look at the NMM plans to see if there are any modifications to the kit that I would like to make regarding the deck layout (like converting hatches to stairways). 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

Yep she is a well made kit. Mine was plywood rather than MDF and I had some warping issues but once they were corrected she fit together like a glove. You are looking good - racing along. Keep enjoying!

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- I have to say that mine fit well also, and I kept thinking I was doing something horribly wrong because everything looked so square.  In the end, I did manage to get 2 bulkheads too high, but, oh well.

 

That's interesting news about the redheart turning orange.  I have already put polyurethane on the bit I used on the capstan, and since I'm not going to use redheart on the gun carriages (which is why I got it in the first place), they won't be in any danger.  But now I wish I had thought to change out the extensions as you've done -- they look terrific.

 

That bear looks pretty big -- but that pose suggests that he's got a negative opinion! 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

That looks very nice. How does it compare size wise with the Lyme/Unicorn?(With the one being 1:75 the other being 1:64 scale)

Edited September 23, 2014 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin - I had a similar thought about the bear, but wanted to keep my thread family rated 

 

Thanks Ian.  The Unicorn is a bit longer, taller and wider even at the smaller scale as you can see in the pictures below.  I should have added the stem to the Unicorn (which as you know is a beakhead ship so it probably looks a little shorter at its front at the moment), and the Pegasus will extend a little further back by an inch or two after the stern extensions are added.  I dry fitted the upper decks to get a sense as to the height differential.  Interestingly, I thought the Pegasus was going to be a lot smaller when I first started on the build, but it seemed to get a lot bigger once the bulkheads and stem were attached.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Some more steady progress.  

 

 

I ended up adding the bulkhead extension supports using spare plywood - I figured the extensions may experience some significant lateral forces during the fairing of the bulkheads, so hopefully the plywood supports on either side keep the extensions in place.  

 

I also ended up using the GF "black" stain to darken the lower deck and other parts of the keel.  I'm not sure if that was necessary, but I thought it might help ensure that the light MDF color from the keel and bulkheads didn't pop out when looking under the quarterdeck and forecastle.

 

Next up is to glue on the upper deck.  I need to modify the pieces slightly as the two halves of the template overlap by 1-2 mm.  I'm also going to start pinning the gunport templates, as I think it might take a few sessions to get the ply templates to fit the way they should.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

We crossed on the internet...nothing can be seen below the main deck except for a glimpse from the forward hatch to the lower deck. I covered this remote prospect with a few planks down there. Many here have done full cabin fit outs. They look great in the photos but virtually nothing can be seen through the window lights. Even my very poor efforts in this regard were a waste of time - you can't see anything.

 

I'd get some deck strips on the lower deck under that fore hatch but otherwise relax about what can been seen.

Edited September 25, 2014 by aliluke

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Alistair.  I was wondering about whether to plank the lower deck under that hatch.  You probably can't see much with the stairs in the way, but it probably wouldn't hurt to add a few strips down there.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for the warning Spyglass.  I am planning to make the adjustments where the templates meet the bulkheads, rather than the middle.  The two-piece upper deck templates are fairly flimsy as you say.  Looking at the set up now, I wonder why the middle bulkheads weren't built as full supports across the full deck.  I might think about adding some supports at the middle, but I worry that I might affect the camber of the deck.  I'll have to think about that a little more.  When I planked the deck on my Badger, I used long thin pins along the length of the plank to keep the plank straight and butt hard against the plank next to it when gluing it down.  It worked very well on that build, but I wonder if that approach might end up collapsing the deck at the center.

 

Interestingly, the kit instructions call for you to plank the first third and the last third of the upper deck, and then leave the middle part for later.  That would leave an odd planking run, which maybe is mostly covered up by all the deck items, but I still think it would look odd.  I could be wrong, but I think the instructions also say to plank the templates off the model.  I think it would be hard to fit the planked templates and bend them to conform to the deck camber.  So, I'm planning on adding the templates, and then planking the deck in full.

[Martin W]

Spy's advice is good, Mike. I think just about everyone has had that bulge down the middle of the deck.  I found that in a text fitting it looked really bad, and then in a second fitting, for some mysterious reason, it didn't.  In the end it fit well, but, like Spy and others, I reinforced it from below.  I also got some good advice to glue blocks on the bulkheads to help prevent any twisting of them or the keel.  Don't know if that was absolutely necessary, but better safe than twisted I guess.

 

How about a close up of one or two of your extensions?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin - it sounds like reinforcing the upper deck makes a lot of sense.  It shouldn't be too hard to cut out two or three pieces of plywood to fully close off some of the bulkheads in the middle.  The big concern is to make sure you get the camber of the deck right, but I think I can figure that out.  Even if I'm off by 1 or 2mm, it probably won't make much of a visible difference once the planking and deck items are on.

 

I'm probably not going to add blocks between the bulkheads on this build.  I did so on my Lyme build (see link below), as the bulkheads in that kit are plywood and have a lot of flex.  The Pegasus kit uses MDF which is incredibly strong and really can't be flexed at all.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6223-hms-lyme-1748-1760-by-landlubber-mike-kit-bash-of-corel-unicorn-scale-175/?p=220346

 

 

It might be hard to get close-ups of the extensions with the bulkheads on the model, but I can try tonight.  Here are some that I posted on my log earlier (prior to sanding and finishing them).

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/?p=238373

Edited September 27, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Thanks for the close-up Mike -- very nice.

 

When I added reinforcements to the bulkheads amidships, I just copied the camber from the bulkheads on either side.  The only problem I ran into is that one of my reinforcements interfered with the coamings of a hatchway, and I had to sand it back.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for these thoughts Spyglass.  Just out of curiosity, I saw that some of the holes around the main mast match up with holes just below on the lower deck.  I forget if these are for the bitts or whatnot, but are there pieces that need to extend through the holes on the upper deck down into the holes on the lower deck?  

[Martin W]

That's right, Mike, those holes line up for th bitts, the masts, and the capstan.  The bitts are quite long pieces extending far down.  I assume you'll replace those (I am), since they're made of ply -- at least in the Fly kit.

[aliluke]

Hi Mike

I didn't have the issues with he false deck that Spyglass discusses - maybe that is a kit difference between Fly and Pegasus? One thing I added was main mast partners which reinforce the deck around that area and are correct according to the FFM.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys. 

 

Spyglass, I remember you pointing out the bitts issue.  Mine is bigger than the plans also

 

Martin, I bet I end up cutting out new bitts out of pear or redheart.  If I'm replacing most of the other visible wood, I might as well go all the way and replace all the ply and walnut where visible 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

I decided to go ahead and reinforce the upper deck template with a few pieces of plywood.  Essentially, what I did was test fit the template, and figured out which areas could use a little reinforcement.  From what I could tell, the template needed reinforcing near the main mast (as Spyglass and others have pointed out), as well as in the waist (between the stair hatch to the lower deck and the big grating in front of the main mast).

 

The pictures below hopefully show what I ended up doing.  Around the main mast, I constructed three relatively narrow supports - essentially, because of all the holes in that area, I couldn't do a longer piece.  In the waist area I added a fairly long support.  I wanted these to perfectly align with the supports along the spine of the keel, so I sanded the width of the supports to 5mm to match the width of the keel.  As you can see in the first picture below, I ran a wooden ruler along the spine as a guide for where to position the new supports.  The ruler is slightly above the lower deck so that the extra glue didn't run onto the ruler and glue it to the lower deck as well    The supports seem to really help the stability of the deck.  If you were really worried about the stability of the supports themselves, running pins between the support and the lower deck might be a good idea - but I just glued them on with plenty of glue.

 

Spyglass - my upper deck templates don't seem to be as crumbly as yours.  They did start to splinter when I sanded them against the grain, but nowhere near the issue that you had.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The next bit of business was to get the two halves of the ply templates to sit properly on the bulkheads.  I had a slight issue in the beginning with the pieces overlapping in the center by about 1-2mm.  Most of that was probably due to my new bulkhead extensions being slightly wider in some cases than the kit's extensions.  After filing the template bulkhead notches slightly deeper, the two halves fit much better.  I also sanded down the front and back of the templates very slightly (maybe taking off 0.5mm or so) to also improve the fit.  As you can see in the picture below, the two template halves are fitting very nicely when dry fit.  Once I pin and glue them, the seam will pretty much go away.  I'm not having any of the bubbling issue that I think some other builders experienced (though, that might have been on the Fly and not the Pegasus), and the new supports actually seem to do a very nice job of maintaining a consistent camber across the deck.

 

 

 

Next up I'll go ahead and stain the new supports, and will add some planking on the lower deck for the stair hatch in the waist.  Even though I plan to use a different wood for deck planking (maple from Hobbymill), I'll probably just use the kit's tanganyika as the planking will not be very visible.  Before I glue down the deck template, I'll probably go ahead and figure out the planking pattern and what details to add (scarpf and hook joints along the perimeter, mast partners as Alistair added, etc.).

 

As an aside, according to the NMM plans, it looks like the hatch under the quarterdeck near the capstan is a stair hatch, whereas the kit has you construct a grating.  I'll probably just do a grating as I expect that either won't be visible.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

I should mention the color scheme that I decided for the build.  Essentially, the overall color scheme will be very close to the colors used on the kit box:

 

- Pear for the visible upper hull planking and some of the deck items

 

- Boxwood for the masting and rails

 

- Maple for the decks, upper masting and studding sail booms

 

- Redheart for the bulwark planking, forecastle and quarterdeck supports, cannon carriages, and some of the deck items

 

- Bottom of the hull will be coppered and aged, using Alistair's, uh, natural formula 

 

- For items that will be black (like the mast tops, spars, capping rails, etc.), I plan to use the kit's materials as much as possible.  The black stain from General Finishes seems to work very well and evenly across different woods.

 

- For the small boats, and possibly the window frames, I might try scratching both by using holly.  I'm not a big fan of white paint on models (too bright, usually have to add many more coats to get an even color), at least the way I paint

 

I haven't figured out whether I want to add a different color (like blue or red) to the upper hull planking.  For the frieze decorations along the hull, I think I'm going to try to use a combination of washes, lowlights and highlights to get more of a darker, patina'd look. I haven't figured out what I want to do with the figurehead or the stern decorations.  I might try and paint them to match the boxwood used in other areas of the build.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[riverboat]

Mike the  planing you are doing on this build is very impressive!.... What's that Virginia Slims ad ? "You've come along way baby" since

your Badger. Good show!!!

Frank

[aliluke]

Sounds like a great plan Mike. I look forward to seeing in unroll. Good luck with my copper technique - it is actually very easy and the effect is still holding strong in spite of much handling. I'm working those friezes at the moment will update but not an easy piece to paint let alone patina.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Spyglass.  I started dry fitting the mast dowels last night.  It's a nice snug fit, but you're right, better to get it sorted out now!

[Martin W]

Mike -- I really like the combination of woods you're going to use.  I'll especially be interested in seeing how the maple looks.  I hadn't thought of planking the bulwarks in redheart, but, golly, now that you mention it, hmmm. 

 

I might also mention that the deck for my Fly came in 2 pieces just like yours.  Now that it's planked, it seems solid and tight, though the starboard seems about 1/16" narrower than the port, and I can't figure out why -- I only noticed it when I laid the last planks.  Oh well.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

We'll see how it all ends up Martin.  This painting with wood thing requires you to think ahead quite a bit.  Jeff's redheart has been very nice to work with, as it has similar workability to pear.  I'm curious, though, to see what it looks like when it is finished with tung oil or wipe-on poly.

 

Interesting about the Fly deck.  It seems most people like Spyglass have found their Fly kits have had a single piece.  Having it in two pieces didn't bother me, especially now that I've reinforced the centerline.  I'll have to keep track to make sure it's symmetrical on both sides though, thanks for the heads up!

[Martin W]

Mike -- I'll also be interested in the effect of time & light on the redheart.  That I used on my capstan has stayed quite red -- I put 3 coats of poly on it, but no oil.  I found that after just a bit of sanding it developed a glass-smooth surface, so I was tempted to leave it bare, but thought the poly would preserve it, and keep it from drying.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi folks,

 

I've been doing a little thinking and research on planking the upper deck.  I plan to plank a portion of the lower deck under the fore hatch ladder in the waist using the kit supplied tanganyika, since it will barely be visible.  Otherwise, the upper deck, the quarterdeck, and the forecastle will be planked with maple.  I don't think I'm going to try and precisely line up the butt joints with the supposed locations of the frames from the NMM plans.  A big thank you to Ulises and AEW for putting together the deck planking practicum and calculator (available at the link below).  Now I understand what a four-butt shift of 1324 means

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-modeling-articles-and-downloads.php

 

 

I had a few questions on the proper deck plank dimensions.  The build is at 1:64 scale, and I'm planning on using the four-butt shift from the template in the Ulises practicum.  

 

Width of standard planks.  I was planning on using 4mm wide planks.  At full scale, this results in planks approximately 25 cm wide (or about 10 inches).

 

Length of standard planks.  I couldn't seem to find the general range for standard plank lengths.  Somewhere in the deep recesses of my brain I recall that planks were something like 12-25 feet in length, but I could be off.  The Excel scale planking calculator on the list of resources here suggests using 3.75" long planks (or 95.3mm), which would scale to a length of 20 feet/6 meters.  The Bob Hunt practicum says to use 4.5" long planks (or 114mm), which would scale to a length of 24 feet/7.3 meters.  For simplicity, I might just go with a length of 100mm.

 

Margin planks.  I think I read this information in Goodwin last night, but it sounds like the margin planks are 1.5 times the width of the standard planks.  That results in margin planks that are 6mm wide.

 

King plank.  I didn't use a king plank on my Badger, but for that kit, the deck template was one piece.  Given the Pegasus deck template is in two pieces, putting historical accuracy aside, I'm thinking that a good reason for adding a king plank will be for the mere need to cover the seam between the two halves.  Does anyone know if the king plank is generally wider or longer than the standard planks?  I read last night (in TFFM I think) that the king plank was a bit taller than the other planks, but at this scale, I don't think that getting into such detail would be visible or otherwise worth it.

 

 

Do these measurements seem reasonable?  Does anyone know if the king plank tended to be wider/longer than the standard deck plank, and if so, by how much?  Also, do any of these measurements need to change in planking the quarterdeck and fore deck?

 

Thanks very much in advance!

Edited September 30, 2014 by Landlubber Mike