Bluenose by mrcc - Billing Boats - 1:75

[mrcc]

I have been procrastinating on this next step of getting the rest of the ring bolts and such on the deck given my huge distaste of painting all those tiny eyebolts and my huge failure in the past with blackening. This time I decided to do more research and try a slightly different technique of blackening and low and behold a completely different result!

 

I soaked the items in dishwashing soap for 5 minutes and then I soaked the items in the isopropyl bath for 5 minutes and then dumped the items in the blackening solution that I kept in a hot water bath (swishing around in the glassware with each bath). I even used the old solution of blackener that I used on my original failed attempt the year before.

 

Needless to say I am quite happy with the results and the fact that I do not have to paint these fiddly items. PS all the fitting are above and beyond what the Billing Boats plan call for, given most of my resources are from borrowed from Model Shipways' plans. 

[mrcc]

Some of the pictures below have the pins and some of the eyebolts that were originally painted (with great pain I may add) that do require a bit of touchup... but the majority of eyebolts have been blackened and look dramatically better!

[7 Provinces]

Nice job Julian, the blackened parts look great!

[mrcc]

Finally some progress to report...

 

I built the dories from the kit supplied pieces which were plastic but painted up OK with a few coats of enamel paint. I also built the cradles which were not part of the Billing Boat kit but certainly add nice detail to the model.

[mrcc]

I most recently started worked on setting up the lanyards for placement...

 

This old kit supplied a very simple plate and then a plastic deadeye which I of course decided to replace. In adding details, I went to Michaels and purchased a sewing hook and eye package, and with a simple manipulation of the eye, I was able to wrap it around the deadeye and create a locking pin from a brass pin.

 

I have already touched up the hardware with flat black paint and it looks quite good on the boat.

[mrcc]

This last post shows the very limited progress on the masts in which I have started my first attempts ever of rigging a model period ship. My fingers are a bit fiddly and I can tell already that this part of the build is not going to be fun for me.

 

I think I will skip over the masts for now and work on adding details to the bow section of the ship...

[7 Provinces]

Nice work on the dead-eyes and the dories Julian.

The dead-eyes are a part of the build on which I already had many thoughts but I am not there yet. I like your approach with the hooks, it looks good!

[mrcc]

Thanks Jan-Willem for the compliments and others for the "likes" of course.

 

I am just taking my time and enjoying every step of this build.

 

Cheers,

[texxn5]

Hi Julian,

Nice build.  Bluenose was always a favorite of mine.  You're doing an excellent job and I enjoyed going through your log.  Thanks for viewing mine.  I'm now following your log so I'll get your updates.  Keep up the good work.

John

[mrcc]

Thanks John for the kind remarks..,

 

I certainly enjoyed reviewing your very detailed and comprehensive build log at www.charleswmorganmodel.com

 

Cheers,

[mrcc]

I added extra details this past weekend...

 

I created hull plates from cardboard, drilling small holes in them to simulate bolt holes, glued them to the hull with simple white glue and anchored turnbuckles to them creating some of the standing rigging details of the bowsprit. I used black wire to connect the turnbuckles and I think they turned out quite good but whenever I take close-up pictures, the details don't look quite as good. I blame this on my 51 year old eyes.

 

Sorry, as the last two pictures are a bit dark, and just noticed that after the upload...

[7 Provinces]

Looking great! You never even notice that it is cardboard!

[mrcc]

I presently have some concerns about the scale of standing rigging...

 

I started the topmast shrouds and they definitely don't look right with the thread I used which I would guess to be 0.5mm evident in the photos.

I have some Caldercraft 0.75mm and 1.00mm evident in the photos. My inclination is to use the 1.00 mm for the shrouds and 0.5 mm for the rat lines.

 

Any suggestion or thoughts in what thread to use considering the scale of the ship is 1:64?

 

Thanks,

[AON]

I think the top mast rigging looks good in the pics

 

(1mm dia x 64) / 25.4 = 2-1/2 inches diameter full size rope

0.75mm = 1-7/8 inch diameter

0.5mm = 1-1/4" dia.

 

what size are they in real life?

and

what looks good at 1:64

 

1mm or 2.5" seems too large to me but wait to hear from more seasoned readers!

 

Alan

[mrcc]

Thanks Alan for your reply...

 

It is funny as when you look at the rigging with the mast set on the boat, it just looks funny and small to scale, and when you step back a bit and look at it, it almost looks like the shroud lines look "miniscule".

 

I can only imagine that when you put the thinner ratlines on, those lines may completely "disappear"....?

 

Thanks for your input, as this is my first rigging attempt, and I will have to think about this further. Much appreciated!

Edited October 6, 2015 by mrcc

[7 Provinces]

Hi Julian,

 

I have never rigged anything till now so I can't tell you how it looks, but I can tell you that:

1. In my Bluenose kit there are three rope sizes: 0.25 mm, 0.5 mm and 0.75 mm. According to the plans, the 0.75 mm. is meant for the shrouds.
2. The Model Shipways kit, according to the instructions I have, comes with 0.009" (0.23 mm), 0.017" (0.43 mm) and 0.030" (0.76 mm), so it is similar.
3. According to Chapelle, shrouds (of American fishing schooners ...) used to be 6 3/4" circumference. Since circumference is 2r x Pi and you need the diameter which is 2r, this should have been about 2.15". At 1:64 this makes 0.0336" = 0.85 mm.

Hope this helps

[AON]

So then 1mm isn't enormously out of scale ,,, only slightly too large.

Is the difference that noticeable?

If it looks good to you then use what you have

If you are a purest then purchased some line a little smaller diameter, closer to scale.

 

For me, knowing now what they should be, I'd have to get the correct line.... even though one in hundreds of people would notice.

 

And since I wouldn't take a caliper to your rigging I would not be the one in hundreds.

 

Alan

[7 Provinces]

I think it is not realistic to get the correct line for everything, since there are 24 different sizes listed for the main rigging of an (any?) American fishing schooner. I wonder if it is at all possible to get ropes at these increments. Same goes for blocks by the way. I think one almost will have to settle for 3-5 main sizes and use these as an approximation, at least at this scale. I know I will...

[mrcc]

Thanks so much for your advice Alan, Jan-Willem...

 

I think 0.85mm would look "dead on" per the Model Shipways plans (to my eyes).

 

The Billings Boat kit did not come with black rigging thread and what I bought at Michaels (craft store)was some regular thick black thread that is just to soft and light.

The rigging thread from Caldercraft is nice and stiff, perfect in my opinion for this stage of rigging and shroud lines.

 

At the end of the day, you have to go with what looks right and I think I will go with the 1mm shrouds and 0.5mm rat lines.

[7 Provinces]

Absolutely right. Sometimes the exact sizes to scale do not give the desired effect and you have to opt for something else.

My kit did not come with dark rope either. There is white and two shades of sand or beige.

Rat lines are the thinnest I believe. Anyway I will have to get some other rope as well when I get there..

[mrcc]

Hi Jan-Willem,

 

Rat lines should be the thinnest, at this scale, I believe I have to actually go smaller than what I previously stated, perhaps 0.1 or 0.25 at the largest size.

[7 Provinces]

Yes I agree. Billing Boats: 0.25 mm, Model Shipways: 0.23 mm.

Chapelle says Ratlines were 5/8"-3/4" diameter hempline which would mean 0.0098" - 0.0117" or 0.25 - 0.297 mm.

I would probably go with 0.25 mm or anything close to that.

[bhermann]

Julian

 

I finally got the chance to check the plans on the Model Shipways 1:64 model.  They call for the lower shrouds to be .018 inches, which converts to about .45mm, which I believe is where you started, and thought small.  One thing I am not clear on - were the shrouds originally rope or wire?  If they were wire, would a thinner wire provide the same support as a thicker rope?   Just some food for thought.  I am blissfully ignorant enough to go with what the plans call out.  BTW the MS plans call for .005" ratlines, .127 mm equivalent.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[7 Provinces]

Interesting point Bob. I must admit I did not read that far 

 

Now I did: according to Chapelle the standing rigging of American fishing schooners was hemp until 1883-1884. After that, this was made of iron and steel wire. So this applies to the Bluenose as well.

Reading on it say that instead of 6 3/4" hemp 3 1/4" wire was used for the fore and main shrouds, so roughly haf the size. To scale this means 0.40 mm.

Ratlines were 2" circumference, which means .637" diameter. At 1:64 this is 0.01" or 0.25 mm.

 

Of course this does not really mean much when it doesn't look right...

[bhermann]

Jan- Willem

 

Thanks for the info on when wire standing rigging came into play for North American fishing schooners.  I agree it comes down to what looks and feels right to the builder.  I suspect our expectations of what looks right may be colored by seeing all those 18th and 19th warships with their heavy shrouds here on MSW and on replicas.  I should pull up the photos I took of L A Dunton at Mystic and compare her shrouds to what the Charles Morgan is carrying on the other side of the yard

 

In the end, Julian should do whatever makes him most comfortable - he is the Captain for this voyage.

 

Bob

[7 Provinces]

Julian, did you have a look at the pictures from the Nova Scotia Archives?

I just browsed through these and must say that I would guess the rat lines to be no more than 10-15 mm. diameter. This makes for a circumference of 1.23 - 1.85 inch. At 1:64 this would be between 0.15 and 0.25 mm.

Also, the shrouds appear to be approximately three times thicker (diameter) than the ratlines.

But I suggest you have a look for yourself, the NSA really is a great source.

[7 Provinces]

Thanks for the info on when wire standing rigging came into play for North American fishing schooners.  

 

The book "The American fishing schooners" is very informative when it comes to how these ships were generally build and what was customary during which period. Unfortunately this is not ship-specific knowledge, so there is always the chance that it was different for a particular vessel. Or that it was changed / replaced after so many years of sailing 

[mrcc]

Thanks Jan-Willem, Bob for the wealth of information... much much appreciated.

 

I will experiment and look again at this as I have to take down want I already put up (topmast shrouds) and look at this issue again with all this new information.

With regards to the wire standing rigging, I know the bow details and just a couple of the lines of the lower masts were wire (according to the Billings Boat plans anyways).  

[7 Provinces]

Funny, neither my kit's plans nor my instructions mention that.. 

But that happened before   Popeye showed me a scan of his kit's instructions (also Billing Boats) and there were significant differences, also in the sizes depicted 

I am not surprized anymore 

[popeye the sailor]

you folks have the older version....most likely,  the first production.   it was not laser cut.   the one I inherited from a friend of mine is laser cut.  I ended up taking it apart.....mostly because of the damage it received during shipment to me.  I had made these observations before and during disassembly.   there were some discrepancies with the measurements.......starting with the center spine of the keel.   on your kits,  it is to be 300 mm.......mine stated that it was 310 mm and it threw the entire hull frame off.  there was a gap at the bow stem,  as well as a huge gap at the mid ship,  where the two deck sections met.   it translated to the placement of the ribs as well.   I didn't bother to make the adjustment however.....I had made two other keels from the original keel.......a special project from an idea I got.   I made adjustments to the spacing of the bulkheads and I will do the same for the other frames....I'm not going to worry about 10 mm.   I was told that the scale stated on your kits is 1:75.....mine is 1:65.    it will even out in my view