HMS Guadeloupe by jack.aubrey - 1:48 scale - ex French Le Nisus - Brick de 24

[jack.aubrey]

Monday, September 14, 2015

 

We are now in the middle of September and I stand still so handsome in Tuscany. . shipmodeling is out of my mind, because I had other to think, like you may expect from people on vacation.

 

But not everything went exactly in this way: first I got an interesting opportunity and I rented a garage right in front of my balcony in Tuscany, just across the square.

Outside the gate there is a private parking, so I  will use the garage not for the car but as a store of what has no place in the house and as "future modeling workshop", if the idea of ​​spending two months in Cinisello Balsamo (Milan) and two months in Tuscany should become a habit.

 

This solution would provide a very convenient environment, with power and water, in order to work on my ship models. There is no heating and sunlight but are things that can be solved. The matter is not as simple as I describe it but it is a first step, even at a relatively low cost: 80 € as monthly rent, all inclusive.

 

Obviously this resulted in more "jobs" involving me and they gave me the opportunity for other actions until today. Now I no longer know what to invent again and then it could be that I finally resume the three ship boats for my Brick and start working on them. . we'll see.

 

If there will be news I'll be back . . friendliness, Jack.Aubrey

[cog]

Jack,

 

New challenges are nice ... it prepares you for the work to be done, because you can start fresh, with an 'empty' mind!!

[Apollo]

Hi Apollo,

in the book there is an initial section describing the genesis of the first ships of the line, and this section includes the Prince Royal.

At the moment I'm far from my house and I cannot review the book contents, so I'm not sure if there are some plans. I'm instead sure there are some canvas reproducing the ship.

Anyway my opinion is that should be quite difficult to find seriuos details on this ship because of the lack of proper sources. Also Sovereign of the Seas, much more famous than Prince Royal and built 20 years later, suffers this situation of poor source reliability and the plans, today available at NNM or other sites, date decades later its 1st or 2nd rebuild. You should try to search the NNM to see if plans of the Prince Royal are available, but pay attention to the date of the plans because there were several "Prince ..." in the RN.

Hi Jack,

 

Thanks for the description of the book's historical coverage, I figured as much when there’s a dearth of information to be found on the web on such a watershed vessel like the Prince Royal of 1610. I looked up your research suggestion and although I could not find anything, the NNM led me to a museum site which then linked to a thread on a German forum. I would not have come across this revelatory thread had it not been for your post. Although I don’t know to what extent this individual’s model is historically accurate, there is far more information (whatever I can glean of the translation) there than I’ve been able to retrieve thus far. From a cursory glance at his model compared to Vroom's famous painting of this ship shows, he seems to have a lot of the details and proportions of the vessel right. The model is very well done and the interior details especially at the stern are astonishing.

 

You mentioned the Sovereign of the Seas of 1637; do you mean that the oldest extant plans we have of the SOS including artistic depictions are from rebuilds years after her launch? From my limited knowledge of her, each successive rebuild reduced ornamentation on the ship; would this indicate the original design was even more ostentatiously adorned than the most accurate models built of her suggest since they’re based on these later rebuilds?? No wonder Charles I lost his head…!

[jack.aubrey]

Hi Apollo,

don't worry to go off topic in this thread, in this period I've nothing to show, so I like to discuss about ships rather than being idle . .

 

The following four images show the Prince Royal model presented in the book "1st Rate....". It isn't a contemporary model, there is nothing contemporary. This model is of 1991 made by Peter, Basil Grenville in Pinner, Middlesex, UK.

 

 

 

Scale: 1:48.

 

It's a full hull model of the 55-gun three-decker ‘Prince Royal’ (circa 1610), built plank on frame in the Navy Board style.

The model is equipped, fully rigged with a highly decorated hull, nearly all of which is based on the fine contemporary painting of her by the Dutch artist Adam Willaerts (see BHC0266 and BHC0267). Designed and built by the well-known shipwright Phineas Pett, the ‘Prince Royal’ was floated out of the building dock at Woolwich on 25 September 1610, and had the distinction of being the first three-decker in the Royal Navy.

It was common practice during the 17th century for major warships of this size to undergo several repairs during their careers and this ship in its last configuration had a gun deck measuring 160 feet in length and was capable of mounting up to 90 guns in total. It was not until her 40th year, under her Commonwealth name ‘Resolution’ that she saw action engaging successfully at the battles of Kentish Knock, North Foreland and Scheveningen, during the First Anglo-Dutch War (1652–54). During the reign of Charles II, she survived the Battle of Lowestoft in 1665, but during the Four Day’s Battle, 1–4 June 1666, she ran aground and was captured and subsequently burnt by the Dutch.

 

 

 

Regarding the German forum, I reviewed it and it's impressive. I have no idea about his sources on the ship but I suggest you to try to communicate with the modeler and get some answers. It seems well introduced . .

 

Regarding SOTS the sources belong after its construction but the majority of them try to refer to her in the first years of her life. There is also a model in the NMM from Robert Seppings, Surveyor of the Navy in the first years of 1800 trying to reproduce it . . in its original shape.

 

Friendliness, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, October 29, 2011

 

It's from early August that I don't add anything new in this log. We left while I was leaving to spend some time in Tuscany and I brought with me some material to build the three boats planned for this Brick.
But my good intentions didn't produce practical results and, while I was away from home, I did nothing.
Now I am back to my house since October 10th and I had first to spend some days to fix my "business" tasks so I can't resume the shipyard immediately.
But . . last Sunday, October 25th, I finally started to do something. So I picked up the long boat and I began applying the first planking (veneer with thickness of 0.4mm). I remember you that for these task I use veneer which has one of the two sides with a thin layer of non-woven fabric. This fabric is particularly useful since the material doesn't either splinter or flake off and can be confortably cut with a cutter without causing burrs, especially in presence of plank tapering.  

The technique I use for planking these small boats is well experienced: in the past I built four boats for my Soleil Royal in the same manner with full satisfaction. Honestly this method is probably more time consuming compared with other approaches, but I prefer it because has several embedded advantages that lead to a satisfactory and very strong final result.

1) First I start applying the first planking with the woodden side of the veneer (the one where there isn't non-woven fabric) facing inward. I use cyanoacrylate glue applied with the supplied brush. After I apply a few coats of diluted PVA interspersed with light sanding to strenghten the whole.
2) Subsequently I repeat the planking  with a second layer of the same material, this time with the veneer facing to the right side and at the end the same tasks with glue and sanding.
3) Finally, the third planking as the final step.

In this way I have three times the chance to learn the best method to apply the planks and the third time also my empty brain understands the most effective way to operate. The total thickness of the planking slightly exceeds one millimeter, but it is very, very strong.
At this point I detach the hull from the building slip to work inside. But here we should be far away in the future from now, probably in mid-November at best.

Below I propose some pictures of the long boat, as it appears after the first step of planking.
The first day I started badly, the second a little better and the third better than the second. At the end the result is neither bad nor good. 

Rather I had to recognize that my projects of the three boats, made with my computer, lack of optimal precision, probably inherited from the ANCRE plans. More than a flaw on the plans it's likely due to the small size of the drawing, where a minimal imprecision of few tenths in practice means a nice hump or recess on the hull . . in my case, if they were drawn on a larger scale, using my approach via AutoCAD I would achieve a better drawing. 
However, I still have two additional planking steps to address the humps and bumps visible in the photos. 

The original ANCRE drawings:
Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/barca_zps285f10a5.jpg

Some pictures of the long boat after the first planking:
01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164402_zpsjal8yjx9.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164413_zps0c9t6vxw.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164419_zpsoxdifirc.jpg

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164520_zps9l9fdfmz.jpg

05 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164601_zpsrmyojnfc.jpg

06 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151028_164618_zps6jp1brji.jpg

See you soon.
Greetings, Jack.Aubrey

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, November 5, 2015

 

Exactly one week after the completion of the first planking of the longboat I finished the laying of the second. I remember that a third one is planned. Here I used strips I made from chestnut veneer instead of tanganyka, because the tanganyka veneer is becoming scarce and enough only for the third layer on this boat, while I have plenty of chestnut. So I have to replenish the tanganyka stock when I'll be back in Tuscany. 

Below are some pictures of the boat with 2nd planking almost complete, it's still missing to trim the stern but it's a matter of minutes. The situation seems much better than October 29th and also the various bumps, and so on, seem to be softened. I believe they almost disappear after the third layer.

With this second planking I almost found the best way to proceed: strips of 3 mm more or less tapered at prow and stern.

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100360_zpsbfnsxc13.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100359r_zps4lccpaiy.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100358r_zpseakvzoym.jpg

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100362_zps3pyxmubr.jpg

05 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100365_zpsrlx98qer.jpg

Kind regards, Jack.Aubrey.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Friday, November 6, 2015

 

Preparatory tasks in view of the last layer of planking. .
The transom: here I used tanganyika veneer, I will use the same wood for planking.

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100367r_zps8h6zctbh.jpg

an adjustment on the bow with a filler made with sawdust and PVA glue to properly settle the intersection between the keel and the planks in this area, where just one-tenth may be noticeable . . Here the goal is to implement the best background possible.

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100368r_zpsolgnhxy5.jpg

I think then to remove (almost) totally certain hollows due to inaccuracies in the bulkheads.

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100369r_zpsygrdljbm.jpg

Now I'll take another week, obviously not dedicated, considering my slow productivity, before finishing with the third layer.
Regards, Jack.

PS: At the end with these pictures and posts I think to write a booklet on how to build small boats with this method, that will be added to the other 1000 mathods to make the same thing.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[aviaamator]

 I am sure that the trim strips are wrong, the strap should cover boards transom.

Edited November 8, 2015 by aviaamator

[jack.aubrey]

 I am sure that the trim strips are wrong, the strap should cover boards transom.

I'm not sure to understand your comment, but I believe you don't take care that I've planned a third layer of planking . . go back to read my previous messages that you have probably missed to read.

If my understanding is wrong then I've not clear the meaning of your comment and, it this is the case, I invite you to clarify your meaning.

Regards, Jack.

[aviaamator]

I'm not sure to understand your comment, but I believe you don't take care that I've planned a third layer of planking . .

Apparently, my "English" "lame", i meant that the covering boards vessel must close out board transom from the outside. Sorry!  My vision too bad...

Edited November 8, 2015 by aviaamator

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, November 12th, 2015

 

Yesterday I finished to apply the third and final layer of planking of the longboat.

 

The work was done during four sessions of about an hour and a half, without urgency, applying roughly four strakes per side every time and later consolidating the activity done.
As glue I used cyanoacrylate in the package with the brush, very practical for this kind of work; to consolidate, after a smoothing of the courses applied, I used a couple of coats of PVA diluted in water to approximately 50%.

A trick to hide the grooves between a strip and the other was to sand with fine grain sandpaper, making sure that the wood powder fills the grooves. At this point, instead of removing the wood powder produced, I immediately past a coat of PVA which in practice pasted the dust remained into the cracks. By repeating the process a few times you get a more than satisfactory result. To dry more quickly the diluted glue applied, I used a normal "hair-dryer"; so I hadn't dead time between one step and the next.

Here are some pictures of the longboat . . Now I have to decide whether to keep the current keel, which I think became rather low after three layers of strips or apply it again after having sanded and reduced the current one. Once this will be done, then it will be possible to detach the hull and work inside it.

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100372_zpsko2cbgmj.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100373_zps94afbo6z.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100374_zpsrwmflras.jpg

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100371_zpsq065vtzp.jpg

05 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100370_zpsndxsnriz.jpg

Cheers, Jack.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, November 19, 2015

 

This time I don't have anything better to show that these three (awful) photos of the second shipboat, where I just finished to apply the first layer of planking.

At the last minute I decided to stop working on the first shipboat and drive the same experience of the three plank layers also for the second one. This because I feel very "hot" to continue carrying out this type of work and I realized that I'm getting pretty good. So, although more tedious, I prefer to finish the outside of all the three boats before removing them from their building slip and continue with the interior.

On this second boat I already started to apply the second planking: but this time, instead of using veneer I wanted to try using birch plywood 0.4mm. The same thickness of the veneer, but theoretically more robust and flexible. We'll see. .

Salutoni, Jack.Aubrey

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151119_165553_zpslcc3gesq.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151119_165529_zpsj6cfd9ki.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151119_165519_zpsxagugbyi.jpg

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Sunday November 22nd, 2015

 

 

 

 

Second planking in progress . .  

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/20151122_181609_zpsi5izzfdy.jpg

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Tuesday, November 24, 2015

 

The second round of planking is over (the smallest boat in the two photos). 
Now it remains the third and last one that will be done using Tanganyika veneer. At the end the wood color will be like the larger longboat visible in the same two pictures.
 
This second boat, apart from the quite different hull form, seems becoming better. Here the project I prepared with a CAD software was better, apart from the last bulkhead (the sternpost) totally wrong and that I corrected during the application of the two layers of planking.
 
01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100385_zpsdksmcykx.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100386_zpspwnnkitc.jpg

 
Cheers, Jack.Aubrey.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Wednesday, December 2, 2015

 

I would say that, given this strange viewpoint, the object seems more like a World War II Japanese aircraft carrier than a lifeboat of a XIX century brick . . I thought to install on the flydeck some Mitsubishi A6M3 Zeke fighters and Aichi D3A Val divebombers but then I capsized the whole and my lifeboat reappeared. So I abandoned the project.

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100389_zpskieiyhwf.jpg

Aircraft carriers apart, the second Brick lifeboat received its final third planks layer. I must admit that this time everything went right and I think it couldn't be otherwise, after six times I redo the same task.
This last task took me a while to finish, but the reason was the lack of time that I could assign to the model over the last 7-8 days. Too much noise to the quiet life of the modeller. In practice I needed just three sessions of two hours to complete the third planking as it appears in these images.

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100391_zpsm402fjzn.jpg

At the end I decided to redo the keel. This was due to little mistake I made in the design phase: after three layers of planks, the keel became a bit too low to be credible. Then I totally smooth the protruding part of the old keel, including the sternpost and the stem, and I glued a strip of fine wood 1.5 x 2mm.
It looks much better now than before, because the two pieces are totally new. Now I only need to apply the stem, to be drawn from a tablet of the same timber.

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100390_zpszajvd15m.jpg

Next time with new activities, cheers Jack.Aubrey.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, December 3, 2015

 

Today I found a couple of free hours and I resumed the ship boats . .
First, I rebuilt the keel of the main boat, using the same method described in my previous message; see image below.

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100392_zpsi0akohqx.jpg

Then I didn't resist at the temptation to see how could show the inside of the hull and so I proceeded to remove the longboat from its building base. The two images here below show the inside, just after the detachment tasks was over.

Looking at the plans, here there is still a lot of work to be done, first a general cleaning and then adding new details. Now I have to study thoroughly the design of this boat to understand clearly hiw it is like and then decide what to do.

However, given the short time remaining before my return to Tuscany, I think I'll delay this task and I'll proceed to the building of the third and last lifeboat hull. I have less than two weeks of available time but I think to be able to reach the same achievement of the other two boats.

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100393_zps7wuwc84s.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100394_zpsdckpu6uc.jpg

Cheers, Jack.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[Fam]

Hi Sergio

you are almost ready to start a mass production of boats... can I sub-contract to you the building of my three lifeboats?  

Have a nice building!

Fam

[jack.aubrey]

Hi Sergio

you are almost ready to start a mass production of boats... can I sub-contract to you the building of my three lifeboats?  

Have a nice building!

Fam

Hi Fam, I think the building of three ship boats should be enough for me, considering I've not yet reached half way to finish them. I think you can take advantage from my work, using for example the plans I've done for them. They are quite good and need only some small refinements. In the meantime I get advantage form your work on the copper plating and other issues I've not yet addressed.

Rgds, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Friday, January 8th, 2016

In these days of rain I spent a bit of time to review this project and, at a certain point, following a suggestion of my friend FAM, the other modeller who is building this model, we decided it was finally time to "name" our Bricks.

Both had in mind a couple of possible names. For both the favorite seemed to be "Le Colibri", with another alternative name, which in my case was "Le Nisus".

After a review of my original research I found out that "Le Nisus" was captured by the Royal Navy when the ship had not yet been completed by the French: the ship was incomplete and not yet equipped with ordnance. This made me very intrigued because, since the beginning I had the idea to build a model that, even though basically to follow the French project from Pestel, was then probably finished and armed by the Royal Navy, giving me the possibility to build a model say "probably unique".

So what better of a sailing ship caught "incomplete" and "without ordnance"? I can make masts differently from the French rules, adhering to British standards, and above all I can adopt different guns.

Hence a sudden change of mind and the decision to build "Le Nisus", which in Italian means "Kite," a medium-sized bird of prey which would become the figurehead of the model I'm going to build.

One last piece of information: in the Royal Navy this Brick was renamed "HMS Guadeloupe", so from now on I will call it so. Therefore I proceeded to modify appropriately the title of this building log.
Shortly will follow an upgrade of its operational history.

Salutoni, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Wednesday, January 27th, 2016

 

After the decision to name my brick as HMS Guadaloupe (or Guadeloupe) in an afternoon when I was free of other tasks I started to search on the internet something about this ship.
Surprisingly I found a lot of news and also three original plans at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich: of these plans, one is potentially very interesting because can help to determine the real appearance of the figurehead. And also the poop decorations. I'll buy it from the NMM at original scale because the image below shown is too small to understand what it is.

In the meantime I have written the history of this ship, where I found also some interesting contemporaty articles of the London Gazette. The main source is Wikipedia, supplemented with additional web sites.

Suggested reading. Regards, Jack.

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-1_zps6tmil0ib.jpg

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-2_zpsetal5ald.jpg

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-3_zps2ocszcdk.jpg

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-4_zpstc48e9ns.jpg

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-5_zpsrtfa7kre.jpg

Guadeloupe/HMS%20Guadeloupe-6_zps7f9vagru.jpg

 

HMS Guadeloupe.pdf

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Thursday, March 17, 2016

 

A few weeks ago I purchased from the Royal Museums in Greenwich the sheer and body plan of HMS Guadelupe, to finally understand what represents the figurehead and some other details at prow and poop. 

Today the plan is finally in my hands and as soon as possible I'll post an explanatory message on the subject.

 

Salutoni, Jack.

[cog]

had to catch up with your build, Jack ... you've been making some nice progress ... like the Japanese WW II aircraft carrier ... will be hard to get that one on board ;-) ...curious as to your findings on the HMS Guadeloupe drawings ...

 

Cheers

[jack.aubrey]

had to catch up with your build, Jack ... you've been making some nice progress ... like the Japanese WW II aircraft carrier ... will be hard to get that one on board ;-) ...curious as to your findings on the HMS Guadeloupe drawings ...

 

Hi,

I've no new progresses on this model  since a while . . . I'm not at my house in Milan since December and I'll not be back before May. So I can't work on this brig . . In the meantime, while I'm in my 2nd house in Tuscany, I'm building a Viking ship ( http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11957-gokstad-viking-ship-jackaubrey-dusek-shipkits-135-scale/ )

 

Cheers, Jack.

[cog]

So you can see how long ago I've visited your build log!!! I almost feel guilty!!!

 

Cheers

[jack.aubrey]

Wednesday, June 8, 2016

 

It is now +/- three weeks since I went back from Tuscany and it's just few days I began to think back to shipmodeling. Two days ago I reopened the Gokstad Viking shipyard, which, if everything runs well without glitchs, could be completed in a relatively reasonable time, that is, before I'll return to Tuscany in September.

 

On the other side, regarding the HMS Guadeloupe, everything is still in wait state. First I need to collect my thoughts because more than six months of inactivity made me forget many things. In Tuscany, I concentrated more on the history of this ship and, having discovered the existence of an original contemporary plan available at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, I intrigued to buy it.

 

Definitely a good purchase, which clarifies many aspects regarding the appearance of this ship, which also differs in rather important points from the French project: figurehead, breakwater, main piece of the knee of the head, quarter badges, shape of the taffarel, positioning of the shrouds. It's my intention to take pictures of these details, to illustrate in deep the differences, in future posts.

 

Meanwhile, thanks to the collaboration with another modeler who is building this same model (he decided to name it "Le Colibrì") it was started the realization of the ship carronades. A master of these parts was made. More in deep two of them: a) one for my friend who uses the original "Le Colibri" carronades, reproduced in detail in the ANCRE plans, while for my model, which was armed after his capture by the Royal Navy, the master was made using a English-barrel pattern, almost similar but not equal to the french one. Thanks to researches on the internet I found the design that I needed.

 

Finally, my friend found and contacted a company in Gazzada Schianno (VA) which set up the fusion process of the pieces needed starting from the masters. All this is the result of my friend work, I limited myself, due to my absence, to simply pick up the pieces and to pay the due amount, amount which will then be divided between us.

 

Below are some pictures of the guns barrels, both for my Guadeloupe than for Le Colibrì.

 

HMS Guadeloupe:

 

01

 

02

 

Le Colibrì:

 

03

 

04

 

Both barrels in the same image, left the English ones . .

 

05

 

Cheers, Jack.

 

PS: The color of the metal, which in the pics seems almost golden, is strongly distorted by artificial light, in reality it's very similar to silver (the material used for casting is a pewter alloy, I don't remember the right name). Obviously, the pieces have to be treated to give them the classic "gun metal" color . .

[jack.aubrey]

Sunday, June 12, 2016

 

I finally took a few pictures of the HMS Guadelupe plans I purchased at the Greenwich NMM.

The five images below proposed highlight the five areas that I have (so far) identified as main differences between this plan and the one provided by the ANCRE monograph of "Le Cygne".

But . . I forgot to take the same images of the ANCRE plans, so we'll have to wait I get pictures of them too. Now we can only visually introduce the five differences shown here below.

So please . . have some patience for a while.

1st difference at prow where no one knew until now how it was done: the figurehead. In addition, the bow shape is different, slimmer and slender.

01 Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/20160611_114237_zpsigmpluxt.jpg

2nd Difference: the side quarter badges are totally missed.

02 Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/20160611_114302_zpskjwrajos.jpg

3rd difference: the profile of the transom/taffarel is different from "Le Cygne", narrower and with square gunports.

03 Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/20160611_114415_zpsqajhnadd.jpg

4th and 5th difference: the shrouds positioning of foremast and mainmast are different than "Le Cygne"".

04 Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/20160611_114246_zpspkhdqmrq.jpg

05 Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/20160611_114252_zpsg8j2xzwa.jpg

But there are also other minor but still important differences.
As soon as I can spot pictures of the ANCRE plans you will probably understand better. 
That all till now. 
Regards, Jack.

Edited September 9, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[kees de mol]

Like it

[druxey]

Are the English plans after modification or 'as captured'?

[jack.aubrey]

Are the English plans after modification or 'as captured'?

Hi Druxey.

To answer you I need to identify on the NMM plans their dates and then compare with the date of capture and of commission. Be a little patient, I need to stay on my workshop but I can't for a couple of days due to other commitments. Regards, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Druxey,

I can submit a first, fast answer about your question.

 

Le Nisus was captured by the RN becoming HMS Guadelupe on December 12, 1809. HMS Gaudaloupe sailed to Deptford (UK) where she underwent fitting-out from August 23, 1810 to January 23, 1811.

 

Now give a look to the comments after the full plan image here below: the date of the plan is June 6th, 1811. This date is after the fitting-out in the british shipyard, so this "should" mean that the plan represents the ship after its modification . . . but the sentence "prior to fitting as a 16-gun brig sloop" probably means the opposite.

 

Do you agree ?

But the question for me still remains 'cause the "prior to fitting as a 16-gun brig sloop" sentence is not contemporary of the plan but added in recent times by a NMM curator . . and probably may not be considered 100% true.  

 

 

Description

Scale: 1:48. Plan showing the body plan with stern board outline, sheer lines with inboard and figurehead, and longitudinal half-breadth for Guadeloupe (captured 1809), a captured French brig, as taken off at Deptford Dockyard prior to fitting as a 16-gun brig sloop. Signed by Robert John Nelson [Master Shipwright, Deptford Dockyard, 1806-1813].

 

Date made

6 June 1811

Place made

England: London Deptford Dockyard

 

Credit

National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London

 

Materials

black ink; green ink; red ink; paper

 

Measurements Sheet: 479 mm x 1103 mm

Edited June 14, 2016 by jack.aubrey