flyer Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share #241 Posted March 25, 2016 Fore stay sail One definition of insanity is that you do the same things again and again - and expect a different outcome every time. Although I made that sail more than once it seems that I'm not completely insane. For the first try I took measurements from the build again. For the length off the luff I took the distance between mouse and the upper deadeye of the forestay. The leach is parallel to the mast and the foot must run clear of the belfry and forms a right angle with the leach. A trial with a paper sail looked ok. But when hoisting the finished sail I got an impression of a small tablecloth acting as a sail with a huge gap between sail and mast. Checking different pictures and paintings I found that the peak was too low but as it was not fixed to the stay and only held up by the peak halyard I could pull it above the mouse. I'm not sure if this is correct but it works on the model. For the second try I increased thus the distance between peak and foot and gained 15 - 20% of sail area. It looked better and definitely different... the fore stay sail still seems a bit small the peak is above the mouse The next problem were the hanks to attach the sail to the stay. Originally they are iron or wooden open hoops, formed like an Ω where the open ends are connected with a lashing going through the sails eyelets. I thought that by putting a ring with overlapping ends through the eyelets and then bend the ends backwards I could imitate the Ω. It looks quite ok but I'm still asking myself if I should double the number of hanks. Initially I put one on each seam of the sail cloths as shown e.g. in Lees' book. a single hank perhaps I should double the number of hanks... The down hauler leads from the peak through a block on the stay to the on a pin below the belfry. Another problem was the sheet. Originally I thought that I must install double sheets as for the jib but didn't know how. But Marquardt simply states that '...the sheet belayed before the mast.' Therefore a sheet similar to the one of the fore gaff was rigged. Finally the tack was lashed to the upper deadeye of the fore stay. down hauler and single sheet ccoyle, mobbsie, Martin W and 5 others 8 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted March 25, 2016 Share #242 Posted March 25, 2016 Watching your work through these issues, Peter, provides the rest of us with good instruction on the process of sail-making & rigging. It's also nice just to admire your work in the pictures. And I might also mention that in Oklahoma there is an occasional wind (as in constantly). Cheers, Martin S.Coleman and flyer 2 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted March 25, 2016 Share #243 Posted March 25, 2016 The standing jib sail doesn't look too small to my eye Peter, but on its own stands out; are you fitting the Middle Jib and Flying Jib Sails? these are somewhat larger and where fitted would tend to draw your eye from the jib sail. Nice idea with the Hanks, and you do have one per cloth strip which seems to be the normal arrangement, although looking at some contemporary models and drawings there does seem to be somewhat more than you have rigged, are your strips to scale? Having said that your arrangement looks good to me and I love the shot of the jib sail with the photo enlarged. Nice work, Peter. B.E. Martin W and flyer 2 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted March 25, 2016 Share #244 Posted March 25, 2016 Hi Peter Wonderful progress you are making. I noticed that you have added further belay points to the Pawl bit assembly - good thinking!! Föhn? It's an interesting phenomenon. It only seems to provide the nasty headaches on the Northern side of the Alps. Down in the Ticino I never had any problems - but there again, life in the Ticino is much more laid back - so no stress anyway - and the Merlot tastes better!!! Research? I've re-ordered Mr Hartlands Seamanship in the age of sail from my local Library - and I was delighted to find they also stock your recommended Mr Lee's Masting and Rigging etc. I also noted that Peter Goodwin's Granado was a good source of info - so I went crazy and ordered that which arrived yesterday. That is a fasinating book indeed, all the details of the sails that I was looking for and, as you know, so much more besides. What I cannot believe is that, with all the detail shown in the book, the only thing missing is.......... any belay plans. Every other minute detail is listed so I cannot quite understand this .... .........Angry Growl !!!!!!!! Still, the book is going to be really useful when I do start to build my Granado next year sometimes... Regards John flyer and Martin W 2 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share #245 Posted March 25, 2016 Hi Martin I Just read, that Oklahoma lies in the tornado alley. Well, I'd rather have a little Föhn-induced headaches than a twister trying to screw the same off. Hi B.E. Good question about the strips. Checking Lees again, I found that indeed the standard width of the cloth was 24'' which results in my 9,3mm. But he also mentions that in the 19th century often 18'' strips were used for jibs and general for fore and aft sails. Changing the strip with for the fore stay sail would need 2 strips more and so provide room for 2 hanks more. I will change to 18'' strips but only for the next build. For Pickles jib and outer jib I will use up the 'existing' 24'' cloth. Hi John The connection between Föhn and headaches is still debated, however I wouldn't debate the quality of the Merlot del Ticino although merlot from the north is by all means drinkable. What a astonishing library you have! And if you check the last part of Lees you will find some helpful belaying plans there. Cheers peter Martin W and JRB9019 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted March 25, 2016 Share #246 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks Peter I look forward to Lee's book. Yes, I am very lucky with the Library here - pure coincidence about the modelling books I think! Re Merlot? Yes, it's OK in the North, although Dole or even Maienfelder was nice. However, you just can't beat sipping a good Boccalino of Merlot del Ticino, sitting in the sunshine in Ascona overlooking the lake - unless it's another good Boccalino of Merlot del Ticino followed by a Restretto and a good local Grappa - oh happy days indeed!!!! Meanwhile back to model making I guess! Edited March 25, 2016 by JRB9019 Martin W and flyer 2 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share #247 Posted April 6, 2016 Jib The sail itself was rather quickly done. But when checking its size and form the jib stay parted at the eye and was beyond repair. A new one had to be made and put up through all the existing rope work. Fortunately that work could be done in the wharf and not on the open sea in some weather. The sail was made similar to the fore stay sail. The peak halyard was set up in a mirrored fashion. The way to attach the fixed end and the necessary block was not fully clear. They are either on the mast or somewhere under the crosstrees, depending on source. Finally I opted for a simple solution as Pickle should be an unpretentious ship. The standing part was simply hitched around the forward crosstree. The halyard then leads through the peak block and back through a block slung under the opposite crosstree leg and down to the pin rack behind the mast. the right block is the jib's peak block, the left one the fixed block for the fore stay sail halyard The down hauler was set up similar to the stay sail. The sheets however are double with a sheet block in each short end. How to set up the pendants was a tricky question. According Lees usually the knightheads on the bow were used but Pickle doesn't have any. In Lees' book a belaying plan of ship from 1850 shows some cleats on the inside of the capping rail in the bow. As such cleats were already used for the backstays I added four more forward of the fore mast. Ringbolts for the standing end are set into the waterways below those cleats. The pendant of the sheet is now hitched to the ringbolt(with a knot for attaching a line to a ringbolt I found in the internet - setting this up was the most difficult bit of the whole sail). Marquardt talks of splicing it but this seemed a bit too definite to me. cleat and ringbolt for the sheet pendant in front of the carronade There are still a lot of loose lines which I will definitely stow when also the remaining outer jib is in place. mobbsie, JRB9019, Mirabell61 and 7 others 10 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted April 7, 2016 Share #248 Posted April 7, 2016 Peter -- I love these details. I see you even used some hooks to belay the rigging to the ring bolts -- Very Nice! And, yes, we do get the occasional tornado through here, and we're entering that time of year when they spring up. A curious detail, though, is that they tend to pass either to the south or north of my town, so there will be a lot of roaring and banging, but so far no actual levelling of houses. Even when they're a full ten miles away, they can be scary. And that's why most houses here come with either a safe room (as in my case, which is where I have the boatyard set up) or underground shelters known in the local parlance as Scaredy Holes or Fraidy Shelters. The very first bottle of wine I drank in its entirety was a Merlot del Ticino, though it wasn't in Lugano but in Verzasca Valley, just after I dove off the Ponte dei Salti. The water was cold, as I recall, and the wine helped me recover. The more important matter is the Pickle, and the research you've put into her. Great work! Martin JRB9019, Blue Ensign and flyer 3 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 7, 2016 Share #249 Posted April 7, 2016 The very first bottle of wine I drank in its entirety was a Merlot del Ticino, though it wasn't in Lugano but in Verzasca Valley, just after I dove off the Ponte dei Salti. Well, there you go Martin - something to put on your 'Bucket List' - "Go to Switzerland, enjoy a bottle of Merlot del Ticino. Note - DO NOT jump in to Lago Maggiore unless it's mid-summer!!!!! P.S. Sorry for highjacking your log Peter!! flyer and Martin W 2 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 7, 2016 Share #250 Posted April 7, 2016 Peter, Pickle looks fantastic. I just found out that my Lee's book has arrived at the library, so I'll be picking that up tomorrow!!! Re the Cleats near the Carronades, you may remember I added a photo of this from my collection. I thought that the rings were belaying the sheets, so your posting has confirmed this. Thanks. Onwards and upwards. John flyer 1 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share #251 Posted April 7, 2016 Hi Martin Very considerate of your admiralty to allow you to reserve the safest place in your house for your ships! Well, my yard is in the basement as well but not in the shelter. My (compulsory) shelter is in my neighbours house. She uses it as a wine cellar which will be a great benefit if we ever have to sit out an air raid there. I hope you didn't have to drink that bottle entirely on your own - merlot or not. But you earned it with the jump from that bridge. (I couldn't do that with my fear of heights.) Thanks for the compliments - building Pickle really is much more fun than expected. Hi John No problem. Martin's jump was actually from an old bridge into an ice cold rivulet about 15m below it. Wow. And there would be much more fine Swiss wines to try! Yep - I forgot that picture. And the line is actually spliced to the ringbolt - the whole business with that special knot was not necessary. But I will repeat it for the outer jib and hope it's a valuable alternative. Cheers peter Martin W and JRB9019 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 7, 2016 Share #252 Posted April 7, 2016 And there would be much more fine Swiss wines to try! Yep - I forgot that picture. And the line is actually spliced to the ringbolt - the whole business with that special knot was not necessary. But I will repeat it for the outer jib and hope it's a valuable alternative. Peter Re. Wines - yes indeed there are some very fine Swiss wines - the white's are particulaly good - Aigle Murrailles, Yvonne spring to mind.... re Pickle - I noted your "splicing" comment. Are you saying that I am going to have to learn that now as well? I was just going to tie the sheet onto the ring - a Bowline sprung to mind - I think they had been invented by then!!!! Martin W 1 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share #253 Posted April 8, 2016 Hi John Of course you could learn to splice in 1/64 - and then possibly move on to a career in microsurgery. Or you could perhaps use the same 'false splice' I picked up in this forum (page 11 in this topic). I find it looks good enough and is quickly done. So, you already know and like the lizard wine! Now you only have to master fondue cooking, yodelling and money laundering and you're well on your way to become a honorary Swiss. Cheers peter JRB9019 and Martin W 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 9, 2016 Share #254 Posted April 9, 2016 Peter, I've had another look at my photo's. I have enlarged one of the photo's as it shows how the sheet has been attached to the bolt-ring just behind the bow - and also shows the whipping of the rope. Hope it helps John Martin W and flyer 2 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted April 10, 2016 Share #255 Posted April 10, 2016 Just catching up Peter, excellent progress. I like your approach to setting the sails, even with all that booze. Not too far to go now mate, maybe time to set your mind to the future. Be Good mobbsie flyer and Martin W 2 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share #256 Posted April 15, 2016 Thank you John. Those pictures are a great help. Mobbsie, thanks and the booze is no problem as long as I have enough and am still abble to hit allll the rigth keylkjbecfduzlvcgssssssssssss And yes, to the future and beyond - as Capt'n Jack Sparrow probably would declare. My mind is set for the Americas - in singular. Cheers peter Martin W 1 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share #257 Posted April 15, 2016 Outer jib Perhaps a bit regretful I took the last sail in hand. Working on that build really was fun and now the finish line is pretty close. The only problem this sail presented was to find out a fitting size for it. After trials with differently sized paper sails, I opted for a medium size with the peak reaching up to the height of the fore mast cap. The rope work is similar to the jib except that the tack is hooked to the traveller. While setting this up I found a remark in Lees' book that the down hauler of the outer jib has a second duty as in hauler of the traveller. This worked fine and I could remove the previously fixed in hauler. While working on the sheets I also started to clean up and belay all those loose ends as the completely set up jib sheets are restricting the access to the fore deck. The anchors - I bought a second identical one from Caldercraft - were completed while the glued sail was drying. To imitate the bolts holding the anchor stock together I just drilled small holes into the wood, smeared a mixture of black colour and glue over them and scratched the excess away. I've seen this method used to imitate treenails and it works fine. The iron bands are made from cartridge paper. Now the anchors have to be attached to the cable and stowed. Finally the small boat must be detailed and both boats must securely be stowed between the masts. tkay11, Cathead, Barbossa and 4 others 7 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted April 15, 2016 Share #258 Posted April 15, 2016 Looks wonderful with her full set of sails Peter, I think you have the proportions just right, a great job B.E. flyer and Martin W 2 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkay11 Posted April 15, 2016 Share #259 Posted April 15, 2016 It's great to see the sail set. Well done, done well! Tony flyer 1 Quote === First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED 2nd build: Triton cross-section COMPLETED 3rd build: La Chaloupe Armée / 42ft Armed Longboat of 1834 by tkay11 – scale 1:36, plans by M. Delacroix COMPLETED 4th build: Allège d’Arles 1833 (Ancre) POB by tkay11 – scale 1:100, plans by F. Fissore COMPLETED Working on La Jacinthe 1:96 POB (ANCRE publications) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted April 18, 2016 Share #260 Posted April 18, 2016 Terrific work, Peter, as always. Those sails really do create a sense of a living ship! If the end is approaching on this delightful build, what thoughts do you have for the next project? Cheers, Martin flyer and Mirabell61 2 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 19, 2016 Share #261 Posted April 19, 2016 Terrific work, Peter, as always. Those sails really do create a sense of a living ship! If the end is approaching on this delightful build, what thoughts do you have for the next project? Cheers, Martin Yes Peter, I was starting to wonder the same thing. With your skills, I can imagine you building Diane or Fly - they look fantastic. I saw a model of Diane at the Jotika factory - it's a beautiful thing indeed.... flyer 1 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share #262 Posted April 19, 2016 Thanks everybody for the compliments. @B.E. Considering what an astonishing build you make of Pegasus I especially value your opinion. Pickles rig proportions are mainly those of the proposed rig for the Adonis class in Marquardts book. This book really is a great help. @Tony The next project will also have all sails set. I'm hooked. @Martin & John The next project is Mamoli's schooner yacht America. If the rumour sadly is true that Mamoli goes out of business I got probably one of the last kits. I like the graceful lines of that vessel as well as her history. I mean, she is not less than a forerunner of Alinghi. I will however try to improve the kit a bit. It comes in 1/66 which should be close enough to 1/64 to allow the use of Amati and Caldercraft parts on America. The coppering will be Amaty and from them and CC I hope to get metal davits and boats. Also rigging thread and other small parts may be replaced. I promised a friend to make a model for dust collection in his office. We choose this because, although he is no sailor at all, he has some family connections to the US. John - Diana is in fact on my list of probable next builds. If Surprise is still not on the market in a year or so, I might start on Diana. Fly on the other hand is no option as I have already her sister ship Pegasus collecting dust in the living room. Cheers peter Martin W and Mirabell61 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 21, 2016 Share #263 Posted April 21, 2016 Peter - Pegasus looks interesting - at some time in future - in a galaxy far, far away!! I am still stuck on trying to work out and understand the running rigging for Pickle!!! Re running rigging, I was interesting in seeing the lines that you had set around the Jibs / Outer Jibs (posting 279 - pictures 2 & 5). Can you tell me more? John flyer 1 Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted April 21, 2016 Share #264 Posted April 21, 2016 Congrats to completing your lovely "Pickle" Peter, a beautiful built ship, and the nice full suit of sails give her just the right look..... For your coming project I thiink the yacht "America" is a great choise, I fell in love with her lines once and started scratch buiiding the model, the hull had to be sold though, due to it`s size. Am looking very much forward to your begin , resp. keellaying.... Nils Martin W 1 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share #265 Posted April 22, 2016 Hi John Galaxies aren't that far away anymore as they used to be! Who knows, you might find a suitable wormhole. Trying to understand rigging is almost as complicated as to understand women. The enormous difference however is that there are handbooks for rigging while on the other hand a working handbook for women..... Do you mean the bolt ropes around each sail? According to those rigging handbooks a boltrope was sewn around each sail to strengthen it and to provide means to attach ropes to the sail and the sail to the yards. The strength of the boltrope varies according to the size of the sail and the position on it (top, foot). You should find the details for example in Lees book. As an average value and because I had it and it looked right I took 0,5 natural thread for the boltropes on all of pickle sails. First the edges and all the seams of the sail were drawn with pencil onto both sides of the cotton. Then I gave an extra 3mm around it for the hem. This is too wide and out of scale but I wanted to be sure that the whole sail holds. The sail was now cut and the corners of the hem trimmed to allow it to lie flat. The hem was then folded over in a 'dry run' and the boltrope laid into the hem. The hem was now glued with a textile glue. Don't forget to give some extra rope length on the corners for the cringles. Now the linings or tablings were glued onto the sail and eventual reef lines added. Make sure the tablings are on the correct side. When the glue was dry the whole sail was ironed to fix the glue and straighten the sail. With this method a sail is rather easily done and quickly finished and it my opinion looks more to scale that those made painstakingly on a sewing machine where most of the time the seams are too prominent. Warning: While there is no question about the longevity of sewn sails I have no idea if and when glued hems may come apart again because glue may change with age. See also my post #215. This sail making method was found somewhere in the MSW techniques and research section. Cheers peter tkay11 and Martin W 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share #266 Posted April 22, 2016 Thank you very much Nils, but the congratulations may be a bit premature. I still have to finish the little dinghy and then the boats must be stowed. But I'm really looking forward to 'go west', to America. peter Mirabell61 and Martin W 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB9019 Posted April 22, 2016 Share #267 Posted April 22, 2016 Peter Many thanks for the detailed information as usual. Actually, I was referring to the lines that seem to be coming away from the Fore/Jib Stays. I've attached an extract from your photo to show what I mean - so NOT the sheets that are fed through the blocks, the other ones, if you see what I mean!!! Regards John Quote John Current Build: H.M. Pickle by JRB9019 - JoTiKa - Scale 1:64 - Kit Build Log in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share #268 Posted April 22, 2016 Ah, I was a bit longwinded - as my daughters kindly keep telling me again and again. I think you mean in fact the sheets. They are doubled and because the sails overlap the windward sheet or better its tackle leads around the stay - the sheet itself remains hidden between the sails. Perhaps it's a bit clearer on that shot between the sails. peter Cathead, Martin W and JRB9019 3 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md1400cs Posted April 25, 2016 Share #269 Posted April 25, 2016 Peter, Indeed a splendid job. Your pencil "stitching" for the sails was very clever. Sails, that in your build are so well scaled really add to your build. Your next build will certainly has LARGE sails (;-) PS: Nice choice if you decide on that one. Michael flyer and Martin W 2 Quote Michael Current build : Sovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal Under the table: Golden Hind - C Mamoli Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati Completed: Santa Maria-Mantua -- Vasa-Corel - Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th Gallery : Santa Maria - Vasa - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share #270 Posted April 26, 2016 boat(s) Besides the details according to the manual the yawl got a more sophisticated floor. Row locks are on both sides and a mast bracket and clamp as well as a simple mast step are added. Two bundles of oars and the boats hook are stowed on the thwarts and the rudder and the grapnel below them. The yawl is stowed in the cutter and both are lashed to the deck. This should be more stable than a lashing to the boats stand as the manual suggests - I think the whole arrangement could then come adrift in just a lively sea. The anchor cable takes a small detour around the boat stand. This shouldn't be a problem as there is no tension in it aft of the windlass. Pickle is now finished. Those sailors are just tidying a few lines to make the schooner ready for the final shots. Martin W, Mirabell61, Blue Ensign and 9 others 12 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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