Anchor Buoys-Looking for details of ones used in 1700's

[bear]

Hi Guys

 

Trying to find details of anchor buoys used on ships in the 1700's. What were there shapes,sizes,colors and rigging used to attach them to anchors and rigging.

 

Thanks

Keith

[druxey]

They were shaped rather like a Rugby football. I believe that all the information you need is in Steel's Rigging and Seamanship. The same information (but only for sixth rates) is in Volume IV of The Fully Framed Model.

[allanyed]

Keith,

 

In addition the the sources Druxey gives, Pages 129 and 130 in James Lees' Masting and Rigging has drawings and a detailed text description of the buoy and rigging.

 

Allan

[dafi]

A nice version from Bernd to be found here :-)

 

RE: HMS Pandora, scratch, 1:85

 

Cheers, Daniel

[Ian B]

This is a nice touch to add to any model, looks easy enough to make. I shall make a couple for my build, thanks Keith for the idea 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Ian B

[bear]

Thanks for the links.

They are just a start of what I am looking for. Now to find out what differences there were in buoys from various countries and era's in shapes,rigging of the netting and how they were rigged to anchors.

 

And differences in military and merchant ships.

 

Just as it always is-an answer to a question is just a single seed that starts the planting of a field of knowledge in ship model building.

Thanks

Keith

[dafi]

Marquardt shows some different forms and buoy sling patterns for various countries.

 

Cheers, Daniel

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Harland has a nice description with illustrations on page 241 of Seamanship in the Age of Sail. In use the buoy marks the location of the anchor on the sea floor and the line attaching it to the anchor is strong enough to weigh the anchor in unusual circumstances such as if the ship had to cut and run. Marking the anchors location also helps prevent fouling the anchor while raising it since the visual cue allows for anticipating problems with fouling other vessels  or who knows what else in the area.

Which makes me wonder if attempts were ever made to paint the buoy in high visibility colors or stripes or checkers. A buoy like this is really just a large wooden barrel and I suppose it and its lines would have otherwise been heavily tarred to insure longevity since it spent its life either directly in the sea or in its exposed position in the fore shrouds.

[allanyed]

Keith

This subject got me doing some research.  As you probably already found, the Harland book, Seamanship in the Age of Sail and the pages mentioned are on line from Google Books.  I also found a very nice Texas A&M thesis on anchors by Harold Jobling that is wealth of information on anchors tehmselves from 1550 to 1850 and his research sources.   

Nautarch.tamu.edu/pdf-files/jobling-MA1993.pdf

 

Allan

[dafi]

Here the link again:

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/pdf-files/Jobling-MA1993.pdf

 

Thank you!

 

DAniel

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I found this shot on my computer, don't know what ship or model it is off of. This is not the first time I have seen the horizontal scored appearance of the buoy itself which suggests to me they are solid constructed bread and butter fashion? That would make them rather heavy, is it possible they are cork? Until this thread started me thinking about it I had always assumed the buoys were made like barrels, hollow, but that would not explain the horizontal scores. 

[dafi]

I think that is a 74 by the rigging from this source: http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/models/elite/74_gun_ship/

 

 

Yes the buoy were layers of cork, about 1 inch thick :-)

 

Here is a different version out of NMM

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/266589.html

 

Did those buoys have a central axis from wood or rope?

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 17, 2014 by dafi

[Larry Van Es]

Just happened to be on the Victory yesterday and took a few pictures of the anchor buoys for you guys. Don't know if this helps with the original discussion., but there are probably going to be a lot of people like me watching. I don't know what's inside, but it's covered with what looks like a tarred canvas bag. Probably the same stuff that they made the rain coat out of. Chuck for his Syren made his out of painted sculpey and made a pretty good representation.

[Ian B]

here is my attempt which I have now added to my Bounty..

 

I found a couple of odd shaped glass beads from a broken necklace, a bit of string and a couple of wire loops-- and OK so not strictly accurate but looks good 'in my opinion '

 

 

[ianmajor]

Dafi is being very modest in not mentioning his own fine rendition of an anchor buoy starting at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/?p=215380  .  

[dafi]

Thank you Ian :-)

 

There was a simple reason - to many flaws still in my one ...

 

... we had some major discussions in our german forum about the details ...

 

... and this interesting discussion did not finished yet ...

 

... but Bernd was already having a far better result!

 

About my humble effords ...

- First the bouy slings should be served. I fixed that.

- then it looks like the buoy rope should be tarred. But what color does that mean? That lead to another lengthy but fruitful discussion about the colors of tarred rope over there. So I was appreciating very much the parallel discussion here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7561-ratlinestarred-or-not/   ... and I opted for a dark brown ...

- then I misinterpreted a text and left the cork natural: Version 3 to be skipped ...

- Next was about the thickness of the buoy slings. Usually lanyards and tackles are half or a third of the following rope: With the buoy rope being a third of the anchor cable (Harland Seamanship) and then another third ... ouch much too thick ... understood, those slings were simply to hold the buoy and were not for big pulling.

- In the moment I am doing Version 5 with tarred cork, buoy slings served ropes in a diameter corresponding to the contemporary models in a dark brown and a buoy rope tarred in a medium brown.

 

quote from Luce, thanks to Chapman: 

Source: http://hnsa.org/doc/luce/index.htm

Buoys and Buoy-Ropes. Buoys attached by their buoy-ropes to the crown, point out at all times the situation of the anchor. The can buoy is in the form of a cone, it floats base uppermost, and the rope is attached to the apex. The nun buoy is largest at the centre, tapering at the ends. The latter is in general use. Fig. 434, Plate 92.

 

The size of buoy-ropes is one-third of the cable. The length varies, for it is shortened or lengthened according to the depth of the water in which you will drop the anchor.

 

It is bent to the crown of the anchor, by taking a half-hitch around one arm, and putting the running eye in its end over the other arm; or a clove-hitch is formed over the crown, and the end stopped along the shank, or to its own part. Or,

 

Attach a large thimble to the crown of the anchor, by a stout strap of the size of the buoy-rope (one-third the cable). Through this thimble is rove the buoy-rope, both parts leading up to the buoy. The advantage of this is, that the buoy-rope may be smaller, and when necessary, a stout rope of the required size, may be, by it, rove through this thimble in the crown of the anchor, thereby affording a greater purchase than that of a single rope, for weighing.

 

The only objection to this plan is, that the two parts of the small buoy-rope will become hawser-laid, and will not unreeve. But this may be, in a great measure, remedied by having one part plain-laid and the other back-handed rope.

 

253

 

Sometimes a buoy will not watch, from its having filled with water, or from the buoy-rope being too short, particularly in a tide-way. By this is meant, that it does not float on the surface of the water. In the former case it will be necessary to bleed it, that is, to let the water out. In the latter, to lengthen the buoy-rope.

 

Buoys are generally kept, one in each of the fore channels for common use. Spare ones are kept in the hold.

 

It was a very good rule, that an anchor should never be let go without a buoy attached. But since the screw propeller has been introduced, they have been less used, through fear of fouling the screw, though the end of a chain is always buoyed in slipping.

 

 

Harland Seamanship page 231 to 279 
The biggest collection of informations
- Buoy a quarter of the anchor shaft´s length

- Buoy rope a third diameter of the anchor cable - fits to the dimensions Steels gives for a first rate

Marquardt Schoner in Nord und Süd page 177ff + Bemastung und Takelung ... page 380ff
- Buoy made of cork of slices thickness 1 inch
- served slings
- Buoy rope 18 to 25 fathoms (about. 30 to 45 meter)

Nares Seamanship page 120ff
- plenty details
- first throw the buoy, then let go the anchor

Brady Ketch Anchor page 150ff
- to break loose the anchor with a small boat: stretch the rope with all men on this side, belay the rope tight and then everybody jumping to the other side of the boat :-)
- page 197: Adapt the buoy to the depth of the water with a bouy rope knot. 

Lever Sheet Anchor page 68ff
- buoy slings served
- Length of the buoy rope 17 to 18 fathoms

Lavery Nelson´s Ships page 170
- buoy rope fixed on the arms side and not on the ring to facilitate breaking free the anchor

McGowan/McKay HMS Victory page 194ff
- fishing the anchor

McKay AOTS HMS Victory 
- nodding ;-)

Lavery AOTS Bellona page 66ff
- very weak way of stowing
- stream anchor fixed arm on arm as seen with Brady http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/200881.html (no canvas around the cork)

Marquardt AOTS Costitution page 82
- some of the most stable lashings shown in literature

Lee Masting and Rigging page 129ff
- length of the buoy rope depending on the expected depth of the water
- the rope for the slings is about 9 times the length of the buoy
- nice pictures of anchors from contemporary models

Schrage Rundhölzer 
- nothing

 

 

Steel sayz:
http://hnsa.org/doc/steel/part2.htm#pg61
page 61
Buoy-ropes are commonly laid shorter than cables.
page 66
For Stays, Tacks, Sheets, and Buoy-Ropes, which are Cable-laid, allow the same Length as is shewn for Yarn in the Tables for Cables, which shew how many Fathoms and Feet of Yarn will make a Fathom of Cable, from 1 to 120 Fathoms

 

 

 

XXXDAn

 

And some more Steel, Brady, Nares und Biddlecombe :-)

 

 

Edited August 21, 2014 by dafi

[dafi]

Getting closer to the way it possibly might have been ...

 

 

                                          #757                         

 

... any corrections welcome :-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 24, 2014 by dafi

[mtaylor]

I would think that you are dead-on accurate sir.  

[riverboat]

Dafi... with all due respect,if you're not satisfied with that great looking buoy, you might need glasses :P

Frank

[dafi]

... ooooh ...

 

...it still has room for improvement until I do the real thing on my Vic ...

 

... the two round loops top and bottom should be a tad more towards the middle, the buoy could possibly slide out sideways through the gap in the middle ...

 

... the knot to fix the buoy rope on the buoy is still to be defined properly. I had to cheat by useing a bowline knot as the bottom eye of the buoy was to small to do two rounds for the intended anchor bend ...

 

...

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 25, 2014 by dafi