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On 7/29/2018 at 11:01 AM, Chuck said:

Well you should have it in a few days at any rate.   Have fun with it.   

Came back from a mini vacation and they were waiting for me, thanks Chuck.

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Maybe it would be useful to others to also post my results with rope making. I ve been using my home made ropewalk and have made lots of rope with DMC cotton. The biggest problem is that it stretches and the rigging loosens up and sags. I am not sure what to do to prevent this. So here it goes:

 

When using 1 thread per strand, the twist of the thread is importand. When using multiple threads, it does not matter.

Generally linen is fuzzy, maybe it can be burned with alcohol flame, maybe worth it if t does not stretch.

 

1. Cotolin, 60% cotton, 40% linen, 22/2, left twist. Very nice, supple, much less knots than the usual linen. Quite fuzzy though. 3 strands, 3 threads per strand, 1.9 mm rope

 

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2. Gutermann extra strong 100% polyester. Right twist. Creates a rope with a very "plastic" feel, not nice. 2x3, 1.1 mm rope

 

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3. DMC yarn

Left: 100% cotton, No twist, very nice thread and very nice rope, 2x3, 2.3 mm rope

Right, 50% linen, 50% cotton, not as sharp as it is fuzzy, no twist, 2x2, 2.3 mm rope

 

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4. Coats Dual Duty XP, 100% polyester, right twist. Despite being polyester, it made an acceptable rope which probably will not stretch. Just a touch fuzzy, barely noticeable. 4x3, 1.6 mm rope.

 

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5. Coats Dual Duty Plus. 75% polyester, 25% cotton, right twist. I had high hopes for this thread but it produced a rope with a plastic feel, not very nice. Left twist. (1x3)x3, 1.6 mm.

 

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6. DMC Cebelia, 100% cotton, right twist. Wonderful like all DMC threads, excellent rope but the other DMC threads probably more useful sizes.  Available in 10 weight that Cordonet is not. (1x3)x3, 2 mm rope.

 

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7. DMC Perle. 100% cotton, beautiful thread, no fuzz, left twist. Sizes 3 to 12, lots of colours. Excellent rope. This is my favourite thread for the scale I work (1:10).

Perle 5, 3x3, 2.1 mm

Perle 8, 3x3, 1.3 mm

Perle 12, 3x3, 1mm

 

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8. Bockens 40/2, 100% linen. Left twist. Fuzzy like all linen threads, also quite a few knots. Not as good as cotton but maybe it does not stretch. 2x3, 1.1 mm rope

 

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9. DMC Cordonet. 100% cotton, wonderful thread. Right twist, sizes from 100 weight to 20 weight. The 10 weight size has been dropped. Excellent for small ropes and small scale work. I could not find a rope in my stash but it is excellent. 

 

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I suspect that the best thread may actually be some synthetic high tech one but these are usually available only commercially and in in huge quantities so unlikely we will be able to find out, test and obtain.

 

If someone has a tip on how to avoid the stretching of cotton ropes I would be very interested.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

Edited by vaddoc

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Nice looking rope, Vaddoc.   Are you "setting" the line (I think that's the correct term).   After taking it off the ropewalk, give the rope a sharp yank to set it. You'll need to do the complete line in sections.  I've not made much rope yet, mostly tested my ropewalk and the the setting seems to make a difference.  

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Thanks both

I am overtwisting the rope but not setting it. I will try though to wet  it and then stretch it in segments, I assume without distorting it.

I think though that the problem is with the structure of the cotton fibres. They are straight and they can slide on each other, so the rope will always stretch more. Wool on the other side, has curled fibres that catch and do not slide, this is why a wool cloth that has been washed and shrank will never come back while a cotton t-shirt can stretch and stretch. Man made fibres have very long fibres that may be elastic but will not stretch permanently. I do not know about hemp and the other traditional fibres used in ropes but probably had very different fibre properties to cotton.

 

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You are probably right about the internal friction that determines inter alia, if and how a rope will stretch. I don't have really experience with natural fibres, as the really small-scale ropes I made are all made from fly-tying yarns, but think that twisting the strands to nearly the break-point will result in a tighter rope with a shallower angle of the twist, more internal friction and, hence, less tendency to stretch.

 

Ropes from natural fibres will always change their length a bit as a fuction of ambient humity, as the fibres may swell, resulting actually in a slight shortening of the rope. I gather this is one of the reasons why people wax the ropes, to prevent humidity uptake to some extent.

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11 hours ago, wefalck said:

I gather this is one of the reasons why people wax the ropes, to prevent humidity uptake to some extent.

 

Its also to get the fuzz to lay down on line. Anyway, that’s why I use it. It also gives the line a bit of that tarred look if you use a dark colored wax. 

 

 

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I am now a proud owner of a Syren Rope Rocket, and just made my first lines on it.

 

I initially had a problem in the first stage of winding up the individual threads. They sometimes curled back on themselves in places, leading to little bumps in the finished line (see below). I am guessing that I was not holding the headstock tight enough to avoid sagging of the lines, or perhaps the tensions were not the same in the individual lines when I first tied them up.

 

A subsequent effort, when I adjusted for these mistakes, worked much better (see below).

 

A challenge for me is to tie the lines with the same tension. I am using a simple overhand loop at the headstock, to form a strong knot that can be slipped over the eye rings. At the tailstock I am using a ring hitch, because I can adjust the tension after tightening up, and then a half hitch to secure. Have others found more efficient knots for this?

 

Great product, Chuck. My previous efforts at ropewalks (purchased and handmade) did not work nearly as well as yours.

 

Mark

 

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That look good.  The bumps as you say are a result of having the lines not evenly tensioned.  If you have one line looser than the others,  that is the one that will bunch up on you as the others remain taught.  

 

AND...yes you are also correct in that if you move the headstock too quickly the lines will bunch up when they get twisted and sag.  This is something you can manage with just a little practice.  It becomes something you just get a feel for.  I have made rope flawlessly in complete darkness during a blackout just based on knowing how the rope feels when its twisting.

 

I use a simple triple knot on each hook.   Again this is something that just gets easier with practice.  I use a simple overhand knot first which remains loose,  this allows me to adjust the tension in the line by feel as I pull on it.  When I know it is the right amount of stretch, then I give it two more knots.

 

Chuck

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Oh almost forgot to mention.   I just restocked these today....there are now six rope rockets in stock.  I know several of you have been waiting patiently as they were out of stock for a couple of weeks.

 

Sorry for the shameless plug!!!  :D

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I tried turning ropes with three strands, then mounting these again in the ropewalk and turning them together with the drill running in the opposite direction. This makes a a Z, or right turned rope, which I believe would be a hawser?

 

I did not get the tensions quite right, so there are some blips in it. It sets up powerful forces; trying to keep the headstock from unwinding was quite an experience! I had to unwind and then wind again, which probably did not help this rope much.

 

As I measure things, Chuck's supplied thread is .017 in diameter. Three of these turn up to .032, or a factor of 1.9 times the original thread diameter. And three of those three, or 9 threads altogether, turn up to about .059", again a factor of 1.9 times the diameters of the ropes in the second stage.

 

I have yet to try 3 threads in each eye, or 9 threads in one turning session. Will it be the same as turning the 9 threads in two sessions? It obviously changes the lay of S or Z.

 

Mark

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That looks good.  Just keep practicing and trying different ways.  You will get in a groove with it.  Make sure that the hooks arent loose either.  Make sure they dont swivel and are locked in.  This can affect your rope as well.   But you are getting there....that rope looks very good indeed.

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Hi Chuck,

 

I discovered that my tailstock wheel was beginning to wobble. When I pulled up the third rope to tension, it would be shorter than the other two already tied off because the wheel tipped.

 

So, I have reset the setscrew, to pull the wheel a little tighter to the tailstock. And I really cranked it down on the bolt threads. That should help.

 

When you tension the threads, do you pull out the stretchiness until it stretches no more, or do you push against each of the three threads in the middle of the span to test the different tensions? I was doing the latter, but think the former might be more consistent. Except pulling all of the tension out of those 3 strand ropes to make the 9 strand rope may be what pulled so hard on my tailstock wheel.

 

Mark

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I do the former....I can sense when the stretchiness is all but gone while adjusting the thread on the end.  I dont test the middle of the span at all.  The little difference you get with a wobble wont help or hurt.  It's usually much more forgiving.  My bet is on the third most common symptom for the line crinkling up on itself listed below.  Its all a matter of testing and getting the feel for it.  Rope making is something done by feel or the art of it.

 

1.  one line is too slack...

2.  One of the hooks is loose and swivelling.

3.  You are twisting the individual strands too much causing them to bunch up on each other.

 

They are all easy fixes.  Its just a matter of practice and once you get your recipe down.......write it down for ever size rope you make.  Then you will be all set.

 

I am making rope today too!!!  What a surprise.  I am making one package or a 20' length of rope every 8 minutes.  Although my pace tends to slow down a bit after a few hours.

 

Chuck

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Hi Chuck,

 

Thanks, this is very helpful. I can only read in awe at a rope every 8 minutes, for a few hours in one go. An impressive goal I will aspire to!

 

Mark

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