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robert Lamba

Greetings bored in retirement!

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As a young kid I built many models mostly plastic, cars ships and planes and some wooden planes , then came girls and motorcycles and I got distracted. In my mid twenties I became interested once again and found wooden ships I had never come across in hobby shops and bought and completed my first a Hoogars, a 19th century fisher the Hendrik by Dikar.

A good project for someone new to wooden ships, it didn't take long and it stills lives above my fireplace 40yrs later. After that I thought I'd move move to something more difficult, another Dikar the Derfflinger. Then life got in the way(marriage and kids) and the Derfflinger was retired to a shelf for 35-40yrs? 

 

I had a forced medical retirement four yrs ago, after surgical repairs I'm healthy again but I couldn't return to my old career as a renovator.  Dying of boredom in the those four years I needed a something to keep me busy so I resurrected and rebuilt three motorcycles! That done I needed something else that was low budget (rebuilding vintage motorcycles is very, very expensive) the little boss wasn't happy. Last week high on a closet shelf I came across the unfinished Derfflinger. I spent an afternoon sorting through the box making note of what was there and what I'd need to scratch build. It's probably 98% complete. What is missing is a parts list to identify all the planking, and more crucially the instruction book, I do have four large build sheets. I'm aware the planking maybe to old and brittle to use but I'll give it a try anyways, I can always buy more planking.

 

Assembling in the incorrect order can be a pain, with a motorcycle I can just take it apart and do it again, not that simple with a ship. So the instruction book would be a time saver.

 

If anyone has built this ship and has pictures or a pdf I can download of the parts list and instructions it would really be helpful.

 

Thanks Robert

 

 

Edited by robert Lamba
wording

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Gidday Robert and a warm welcome from the Land Downunder.

Regarding the missing parts list and instructions have you tried to contact the manufacturer?

Hopefully they are still in business after all this time.

I can share your experiences re "Medical Retirement". I was retired at 48 years of age. 

Restoring old cars is one of my interests but as you say it is expensive.

Two of my car projects languishing out there awaiting funds and motivation.

I hope someone here can help with your requests.

There is a wealth of knowledge and support here and members offer both freely.

I wish you all the best in finding the information you need.

All the best.

Mark.

 

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Robert, wood doesn't get brittle with age, the timber of Khufu's boat at the Great Pyramid was just about fully sound after 4000 years. To the extent wood brittleness varies in human time scales, it's a function of the moisture content of the wood, which is a function of the relative humidity of its environment. Any wood stored in a dry place without either radical swings in humidity or constant very high humidity will decay very, very slowly. Wood is amazingly tough stuff. 

 

However, I don't have the years of experience with little bits of strip wood, I'm more familiar with furniture scales, but I see no reason that wood only a few decades old would decay unless maintained in poor conditions. Anyone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong on this for some reason with planking wood.

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Plastic is a polymer that is formed by catalytic reaction and continues after production - at a slower rate.

Oxygen, UV light, heat can increase the polymerization reaction -making it brittle and stiff and prone to turn to powder.

Wood is a polymer make by specialized cells.  They are no longer active while the wood is still a tree.  There are trees that are hundreds if not thousands of years old,  What does wood in is fungus and insects, not UV or oxygen.  Swelling and shrinking in response to changes in humidity can produce splits.

If brittle wood is a problem, the cause is probably a result of the wood species -  not time. 

The appropriate wood species to use are usually more expensive and do not come in truck load quantities.

Some boutique kit makers use the preferred wood species. Mass market kit assemblers often use wood species that a scratch modeler would never choose.

  You asking the question, this probably means that you may be happier if you second source a wood supply - after some research here as to which species would work better for you.

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Welcome Robert.

I've been retired two and a half months, laid off (mutual agreement) seven months prior to that.

I am more busy now than ever, chasing all the things that interested me and I hadn't the time before... and finding new interests.

I find the days are too short and the nights too long.

 

Back in 1990 I was off due to medical reasons and when well enough ... and thoroughly bored... I turned to model making too.

I do know how you feel.  My whaler build got me through the worst of it, gave me a focus.

 

You will find no better support group (for modelling) than here... second to the "little boss" of course!

 

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On 2/4/2019 at 11:40 PM, Nirvana said:

Robert, from PNW with wind and snow in the air, I greet you warmly to our amazing group.

I did a little research and found this website with some picture of the model you are to build. It's not much but maybe to some help.

 

Many thanks those pictures do indeed help, the ship is not quiet like mine but very, very similar. I did find photos of another completed Derfflinger it looks like the Dikar kit that I have but missing some photo angles that would've been helpful.  I think if my build varies slightly in the details I'll be okay no one will know but me.

https://elastillerodefelix.blogspot.com/2018/01/mariscal-derfflinger.html?view=classic

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On 2/4/2019 at 11:58 PM, vossiewulf said:

Robert, wood doesn't get brittle with age, the timber of Khufu's boat at the Great Pyramid was just about fully sound after 4000 years. To the extent wood brittleness varies in human time scales, it's a function of the moisture content of the wood, which is a function of the relative humidity of its environment. Any wood stored in a dry place without either radical swings in humidity or constant very high humidity will decay very, very slowly. Wood is amazingly tough stuff. 

 

However, I don't have the years of experience with little bits of strip wood, I'm more familiar with furniture scales, but I see no reason that wood only a few decades old would decay unless maintained in poor conditions. Anyone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong on this for some reason with planking wood.

But wood does dry out over time, most of the build that won't be a problem. I do worry about extreme bending required on the bow and stern. Researching the bending process I've come across a few sites where the builders claim if the planking is to dried out it becomes extremely brittle, that it's no longer viable. I don't have the knowledge to say one way or another but I guess I'll find out.

Edited by robert Lamba
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4 hours ago, AON said:

Welcome Robert.

I've been retired two and a half months, laid off (mutual agreement) seven months prior to that.

I am more busy now than ever, chasing all the things that interested me and I hadn't the time before... and finding new interests.

I find the days are too short and the nights too long.

 

Back in 1990 I was off due to medical reasons and when well enough ... and thoroughly bored... I turned to model making too.

I do know how you feel.  My whaler build got me through the worst of it, gave me a focus.

 

You will find no better support group (for modelling) than here... second to the "little boss" of course!

 

I thought I'd look forward to early retirement, nope it's like being on a waiting list to die. Too fit to not work but not qualified to anything but the work I did before, plentiful number of jobs but I can't do any of them.

The little boss is actually pleased I pulled out the Derfflinger, a hobby that'll cost nothing and it won't kill me like my motorcycles.

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On 2/5/2019 at 1:35 AM, Jaager said:

 

Plastic is a polymer that is formed by catalytic reaction and continues after production - at a slower rate.

Oxygen, UV light, heat can increase the polymerization reaction -making it brittle and stiff and prone to turn to powder.

Wood is a polymer make by specialized cells.  They are no longer active while the wood is still a tree.  There are trees that are hundreds if not thousands of years old,  What does wood in is fungus and insects, not UV or oxygen.  Swelling and shrinking in response to changes in humidity can produce splits.

If brittle wood is a problem, the cause is probably a result of the wood species -  not time. 

The appropriate wood species to use are usually more expensive and do not come in truck load quantities.

Some boutique kit makers use the preferred wood species. Mass market kit assemblers often use wood species that a scratch modeler would never choose.

  You asking the question, this probably means that you may be happier if you second source a wood supply - after some research here as to which species would work better for you.

I have some advantages on my side. I have a friend who owns a millwork and another who builds high end custom tables so I can source exotic woods with either one.  If they can't supply what I require I have a 40+ years with finishing wood so I can make a plain softwood look like other exotic species if need be.

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:05 PM, pontiachedmark said:

Gidday Robert and a warm welcome from the Land Downunder.

Regarding the missing parts list and instructions have you tried to contact the manufacturer?

Hopefully they are still in business after all this time.

I can share your experiences re "Medical Retirement". I was retired at 48 years of age. 

Restoring old cars is one of my interests but as you say it is expensive.

Two of my car projects languishing out there awaiting funds and motivation.

I hope someone here can help with your requests.

There is a wealth of knowledge and support here and members offer both freely.

I wish you all the best in finding the information you need.

All the best.

Mark.

 

Thanks Mark, Dikar has been gone for a long time.

This is not an easy project for my limited experience, without that instruction booklet it's going to a super difficult puzzle as well. It'll be slow going for sure, I'll need the advice of more experienced builders.

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It is not so much exotic as species that come from trees that do not lend themselves to high volume operations

Most "exotic" species are prized because they have characteristics that we try to avoid - prominent and interesting grain.

In general softwood species do not play nice for us.

The cachet species are Boxwood ( the real Buxus is all but impossible to source - it has been replaced by a S.A. species = Castelo that is treated as though it were the same ) Swiss Pear, Ebony )

The US domestic species that work well are Hard Maple, Black Cherry, Holly, Yellow Poplar, Beech,  most any fruit wood - Apple being my favorite - but these are self harvested.

If you are US based and can mill your own, you could replace the kit material with Hard Maple and Black Cherry milled to the same thickness.  

For bending, Holly if the others resist too much.

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Researching for suppliers of wooden model ships I found one I didn't know about locally, they're very well supplied with spares. So I should be good for wood with maybe only a little staining required to mimic the appropriate specie. 

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18 hours ago, pontiachedmark said:

Gidday Robert.

I am unsure of the Derfflinger kit you have.

Is it the Battlecruiser Class or the Ship of the 17th Century.

If it is the latter this link may be of some assistance.

https://www.euromodel-ship.com/eng/derfflinger-i-i.php

I hope the link works.

All the best.

Mark. 

 Thanks,  yes I have the 17th century version....those plans will be an enormous help...pdf 4 and 5 are the same? is there one missing or was it a duplication?

 

Going through the the instructions it's good to know deviation is acceptable.

 

Now I need to find cloudy ammonia.  

Edited by robert Lamba
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The following link may be of some help too.

http://www.shipmodell.com/index_files/SHIPMODELL_DERFFLINGER.htm

Google translate may be needed. 😉

 

Perhaps someone should do a sticky on internet searching but this may be helpful, if your wanting information on a specific topic, ie Derfflinger, a structured keyword search on google gives you the needed information within 10 min, with checking a few links. I'm a day or two late here but this search; dikar derfflinger model ship plans pdf gives a great result.

 

You'll find that the internet is your best friend with uncovering almost all information you need on any topic.

 

FYI: I'm in my 50's so this is not a 'young person's thing', 😊, just a bit of practice and you'll discover just what a powerful tool this is for researching information.

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Thanks but I'm not intimidated by the internet I'm very good at internet searches. I asked for assistance because I've spent hours searching for Dikar specific instructions and come up with nothing. I have the plans but without the instruction book and detailed parts list it's a monumental puzzle for someone who hasn't built something of this scale before.

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