popeye2sea
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Rigging Confusions - Lifts, Halyards and More, Oh My!
popeye2sea replied to rraisley's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Looking at your original post. Line 213 looks to me to be a depiction of what to do with the studdingsail halyard if there are no sails. In any case the lead for the end after the jewel block at the yard arm is bogus. That is the end that would be hitched around the studdingsail yard. At the mast head it would not be hitched around the mast. You would need another block to send the hauling end down towards the deck. They have the whole thing backwards. The second diagram is actually closer to the way it should be rigged. Regards, -
You do not need to rattle the shrouds above the futtock stave. If you have ever been aloft on an actual ship you will quickly see that they are fairly useless anyway. There is no room to put your feet between the shrouds. Sailors going aloft climb up the outside of the futtock shrouds. They are rattled in the same manner as the shrouds. Regards,
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Like a lot of people on this site I love the beauty and history of these ships. I am also a constant student of history so I am very much drawn to the why, what, where, when and how ships function. One thing I learned early on is that I will never be done learning. Best wishes for a rewarding and successful journey of knowledge. Regards,
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You are not going wrong. Personally, I would not use Zu Mondfield as an accurate reference. There are other, more contemporary, references available. Regards,
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Purchase is another name for a block and tackle. Purchase is old term meaning to move , haul, get leverage on, especially by mechanical means. So the purchase you are referring to is the halyard. A pendant is a length of rope used to shift the bearing point of a pulley to give better advantage or a better lead. So you will find pendants like brace pendants to give a better lead for the braces, Mast tackle pendants to be able to place a tackle over a hatch. Lift pendants to allow the lift blocks to clear the shrouds, etc. They need to be thicker because there is only one rope bearing the entire load. The purchases (block and tackles) are always smaller than their respective tyes or pendants for a few reasons. The first being that the load is distributed over the multiple parts of the tackle. Next up a smaller diameter rope is better able to bend around the sheaves of the blocks. And finally, the diameter of the hauling part of the tackle needs to be small enough for a person to hold on to and haul on. Remember, I did mention that depending on the time period, nationality, etc. the rules of thumb used to establish the rope thicknesses will vary. Regards,
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The sizes of the ropes are related to the other parts of that particular piece of rigging. For example; the Main yard tye is the line that leads from the yard up through a sheave or blocks at the mast cap and then terminates in a block that hangs abaft the mast. The halyard is the line that is rove through the tye block The halyard fall provides the purchase to hoist the yard. There are various rules of thumb published for the relative sizes of these lines with the following being an example: Tye = the thickness of the shrouds Halyard = 2/3 the thickness of the tye. For the Braces it is the same idea. The brace pendant has an eye spliced in to take the yard and a block is seized on the other end. The brace runs through this block and itself terminates in a block which then has the tackle fall rove through. Brace Pendant = 1/2 the thickness of the shrouds Brace = 3/4 the thickness of the pendants Fall = 1/2 or so the thickness of the Brace Lifts can be rigged in various ways but if they have pendants: Lift pendant = 1/2 thickness of shrouds Lift = 3/8 thickness of shrouds Caveat - the above rule of thumb is just an example I have read for ships from 1600 - 1720. You can find other examples and tables of rigging for other periods. Regards,
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Allan, Harland's Seamanship in the Age of Sail, page 162, states the following: "Boom Jigger and tricing tackle. To rig the boom out, a tackle was hooked between the heel of the boom and the strap of the inner iron. To run it in again, the block was unhooked from the inner iron and shifted to some convenient point near the slings of the yard." Falconers defines a jigger tackle as a light tackle consisting of a double and single block used by seamen on sundry occasions. Hope that helps. Regards,
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There is a tackle that is rigged with hooks on both blocks. To run out the booms, one end is hooked to the eye bolt in the inside end of the boom and the other end is hooked to the outer boom iron. To run in the booms, one end is hooked into that same eye bolt on the boom and the other end is hooked at a convenient spot near the mast. BTW, the same tackle is also used to trice up the inner end of the booms when needed for furling the sail, etc... Regards,
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Jan, I don't think that is correct. The size of the spritsail is about the same as a top gallant sail with the spritsail topsail being somewhat smaller than that. You can verify this by looking at the sizes of the rigging for those sails. That is the case even in the photo you posted. In fact, on that model, I think the spritsail is too small and the spritsail topsail is cut too long. Respectfully,
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I think the excerpt you included pretty much explains it. For a square rigged ship it is advantageous to have sails right forward to balance out the force exerted by the after sails. Prior to the advent of jib sails that function was provided by the spritsail named for the spar it is mounted to; the bow sprit. Being so far forward it did not have to be very large. As ships get bigger the need arises to have more sail area forward, so an additional sail, the sprit sail topsail is added. The problem with the sprit sail topsail is that it is very small, difficult to trim properly, and can only be used for very limited points of sail. Someone came up with the brilliant idea of replacing the sprit sail and its topsail with jib sails in order to increase the sail area forward. For a short period of time both were used. As the sail area increased so too the length of the bow sprit with its extensions the jib boom and flying jib boom. This creates another problem. All that increased sail area increases the upward force exerted on the sprit and jib. All of the jib stays, shrouds, and backstays are now necessary to hold the jib down and the sprit sail and sprit sail top sail are no longer able to be used, or are even necessary, with the sprit sail yard now functioning as a spreader for the jib shrouds. Regards,
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Triangular skysails on USS Constitution?
popeye2sea replied to Smile-n-Nod's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
The American captains of the early Navy were well known for crowding on as much sail as possible on the early frigates, which had very lofty rigs already. These sky sails were sometimes added to the rig. Regards, -
Syren Ship Model Company has open hearts that you might be able to use as collars. Regards,
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The primary purpose of the gaff vangs is to reduce twist in the sail by the gaff sagging away to leeward. Regards,
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Slablin, Buntline, Reef points and Gasket coil definitions
popeye2sea replied to Trond's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
If I am thinking about this correctly. If you pull up on the bottom of a sail with the bunt lines only the foot of the sail is being pulled on/supported so you get the belly of the sail still hanging fairly free. Now you can neatly accordian pleat the sail up on to the top of the yard for furling. With a slab line that passes up on both sides of the sail the sail comes up in a bunch with the belly of the sail also supported. I am not certain of the utility of the slab line. Perhaps useful for spilling the wind from one side of the sail? Regards, -
Slablin, Buntline, Reef points and Gasket coil definitions
popeye2sea replied to Trond's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Bunt lines run down the forward side of the sail and are hitched to cringles on the foot of the sail. They are employed when furling the sail to gather up the foot. Slab lines run under the sail forming a large u-shape from blocks at the yard under the sail and back up to the yard where they are hitched. They are not always fitted on ships as there function largely parallels the bunt lines. They are used to haul up large "slabs" of the sail for varying purposes. Reef points are stuck through grommets directly on the sail along the reef lines. When the sail is gathered up to that reef line using the reef tackles during the shortening of sail the reef points are knotted over the yard or jack stay effectively turning that reef line into the new head of the sail. Gaskets are employed after the sail is furled. There are several spaced out and fastened to the yard. When in use they are wrapped in a spiral fashion around the sail and yard. They are what holds the furled sail tightly on the yard. When not in use they are hung in a gasket coil on the fore side of the yard. Regards, -
How to connect yards to masts??
popeye2sea replied to ObviousNewbie's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
The difference lies in the fact that the upper yards need to move up and down on the mast to set and furl sails, whereas the main yard (lowest) remains fixed in position. So you will see the upper yards held in to the mast with the roller parrels. The main yard will be held in place with a combination of gear consisting of: The halliard or jeers that hoist it into place. A sling to help take the weight and suspend the yard. A truss pendant to hold the yard in to the mast. Lifts to assist in taking the weight of the yard extremities and control the cant of the yard. Regards, -
I can tell you from personal experience that every piece of brass on my signal bridge was polished all the time.😧 Regards,
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On Constitution you can definitely hear people walking on the deck above you. Of course, if you consider there are rather large holes in the deck (covered with gratings) then that is not surprising. Conversations can also easily be heard. On a man-of war in the American and I think the Royal Navy no idle talking was allowed on deck. One of the places where sailors were often allowed to talk was when they were getting water at the water cask. It was a butt cask with a hole let in to serve out the water; therefore a scuttled butt or the scuttle butt. Hence, where we get the term scuttlebutt for idle talk and gossip in modern usage. Regards,
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Gary, I also served in minesweepers; USS Exploit MSO 440 and USS Affray MSO 511. Also with CO MINEDIV 121. Wooden ships and Iron men! Regards,
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Confusion with Halyards on stays
popeye2sea replied to DaveBaxt's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
I think you are confusing halyards with lanyards. What you are describing as the line attaching two hearts together on the stay is called a lanyard. The ones connecting two blocks is called a tackle. For the hearts and lanyards on the stays, go ahead and leave them dark brown or black as these are designed to fixed in place after setting up taut and would be tarred. For the tackles rove through blocks, such as for backstays, it is your choice. For although they are designed to be set up taut and not moved frequently they needed to be adjusted from time to time based on how much strain was being put on the masts. BTW, a halyard is the line used to haul the yard up into position on the mast. Best of luck with your first build. Regards, -
Royal Caroline rigging lines & blocks
popeye2sea replied to rvmer2's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Paul, I was thinking about your question and I realized that I have never really sat down and counted just how many blocks it will take to complete my build. The number is certainly in the high hundreds for a full rigged ship. In order to come up with the correct number you will have to consider how you are going to rig her; with or without sails, fully accurate or simplified rigging. Most kit rigging plans tend to leave stuff out. One way to figure it all out is to make a spread sheet listing all of rigging materials needed for each line. Again, most plans will have the information spread between several plan sheets, having you refer to diagrams, insets, block lists, belaying plans, etc. The other added benefit to compiling all the info into one spreadsheet is you will learn a lot in the gathering of data from your different sources about how the rigging all works together. I organized mine by mast section, for instance: Main top mast, main top mast shrouds, main top mast backstays, main top mast stay, main top sail yard, main top sail halyard, main topsail sheets, etc. That way I could look at a glance for everything needed for each mast segment as I rigged it. Regards, -
I agree completely here. I don't think I have referred to those plates at any time while puzzling out the rigging for my Solieil Royale. The written descriptions in the text are very detailed. Regards,
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The notations are all there on the plate. They are just really, really hard to read without magnification. Regards,
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That is a really nice set up you have made there. Regards,
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