Blue Ensign

Another fine offering from  Daniel’s bumper book of everything you wanted to know about matters nautical but were afraid to ask

I can hear the scratching of heads from here.

The definition ‘bright’ meant payed with Rosin, the main ingredients being Rosin  and turpentine.
 

The colour of bright sides would presumably vary dependant on the rosin used but light to mid brown would be my best guess.
 

Paintings around the time of the Seven Years War may provide a good clue. Most contemporary model of the 18th century are shown bright, but the finish may not be representative of the real thing.
 

Have a look at the works of marine painters such Charles Brooking and John Cleveley
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-naval-snow-173093
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/ships-in-a-light-breeze-173091
 

http://www.lanefineart.com/component/virtuemart/shop.product_details/12/flypage_images.tpl/70.html
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-naval-brigantine-in-a-calm-sea-173289
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-sixth-rate-on-the-stocks-173292
 

This is probably as close as you will get.
 

As far as weathering is concerned, how will we ever know.  A ship model kept indoors may well darken with age whereas open to the elements fading is more likely, much in the same way old varnish appears today.
 

Carr – laughton makes mention of a ship having a dull appearance, like a bright sided ship discoloured by use. - Reminds me of my Garden bench.

 The practise of painting ships sides long pre-dated the Nelson fashion of the late 18th/early 19th centuries.
 

Carr- Laughton cites  an Admiralty order dated 12 July 1715  that the outsides of ships be painted  of the ‘usual’ yellow colour, which suggests that the practice was in force for some considerable time prior to this. Other contemporary references throughout the 18th Century indicated that painting was a normal practice.
 

However, this does not fully explain the case as in 1777 an order was issued explaining how the sides of ships were to be ‘payed’ and another in May 1780 saying that when ships sides were painted, the material  usually allowed for paying them should not be issued.
 

The inference to be gained from this is that the two methods co-existed, perhaps changing in precedence from time to time.

Is your question related to one of your multiple Victory builds Daniel?

Cheers,

M.

That looks better Jason

B.E.

Nice work David, she's looking good, I like to see models set on keel blocks.

Cheers,

B.E.

I don't have an issue with posting an image to clarify  a response to a query, it often helps understanding. Using a members log to promote your own build is a different matter, and probably irritates most of us.

Fortunately this doesn't seem to happen very often on MSW.

B.E.

I also think that your companionway looks very good Jason, and very neat work on the gratings.

Cheers,

B.E.

Hi Aldo, your replacement Gallows look so much better. I scoured all my references looking for an example that matched the kit version without success, and I couldn't live with the Chinese Pagoda look either in the end.

I rather liked your bitts with the sheaves, and the set up on the deck didn't look out of scale to my eye, on the photo at least.

One thing to bear in mind re the spacing of the bitts, the rhodings for the pumps are attached to the inner faces of the bitts and will need to line up with the pump cistern centres.

Cheers,

M.

I've enjoyed reading thro' your log David,  a really attractive build with some nice extra touches, Well done

Regards,

B.E.

Just come across your excellent log Rusty, fine work to produce an immensely attractive model, love what you have done.

Regards,

B.E.

Thanks for the link John, I hadn't seen it before.

The problem we are faced with working at 1:64 scale, particularly on a small vessel such as Pickle is that the side tackle set up can look too heavy and overscale for the gun if say a hook is attached  by an eye  to the line.

That is why I changed the blocks to JB models 2mm versions and stropped them with wire, forming a hook out of the twisted end. This also avoided the need to seize the block to the eyebolt.

Not authentic I admit but at the scale involved I prefer that the tackles look proportionate rather than replicate the full size arrangement.

Regards,

B.E.

Hello John,

Those Pickle Carronades are the very devil to assemble and rig.

Each of the side tackle blocks are stropped with line fitting along the groove in the block. At a simple level the line is knotted around the eye bolts set in the hull side and bed of the carronade.

A separate tackle line is secured through the strop of the right hand block and it is this that passes thro' the  left hand block from beneath, back thro' the hull side block, and is either then coiled as shown or frapped around itself to secure.

A lot of modellers make up a little jig to rig their side tackles to hold the blocks the required distance apart whilst they thread the line. Often they prefer to attach the  block to the eyebolt before the eyebolt is fitted in the hull side.

My own approach to the carronade rigging is covered in my log, as per the link below.

Regards,

B.E.

Thanks for the summary on Pickle.  I always find your descriptions and research fascinating.

You're welcome Augie, your words are much appreciated.

Wonderful build log, beautiful model.  Anyone building the Pickle will be very fortunate to have and refer to your build. Congrats!

 

BFN

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Hopeful aka David

 

 

 

“there is wisdom in many voices”

 

 

 

Completed: Sharpie Schooner (Midwest) Posted on kit build log.

 

Current: Sultana (MSW) Updating the build log and continuing on with the build

 

 

 

Next: Lady Nelson (Amati Victory)

 I'm glad you like it David, and thank you for your generous words. I hope the log is of assistance to those thinking of building Pickle.

Regards,

B.E.

Fine craftmanship IIhan, a very attractive model, a pleasure to see.

B.E.

Hi Jason,

The chain may be a tad overscale but not excessively so and will look better once blackened. If it keeps drawing your eye  you could always invest in a length of the next smaller available size and decide between the two.

Re: micro drills, over here I don't buy them from model suppliers, I tend to use Ebay or from other internet sources which are often cheaper. The same goes for scalpel blades, which are more expensive  from model suppliers in packs of 5. I buy them in boxes of 100, much cheaper.

Cheers, B.E.

I tell you dear Daniel I would have finished Pegasus by now but for chasing  answers for your quests to settle  the minutiae of all things nautical.

It's all interesting stuff tho' keep it up

M.

She looks magnificent John, a really fine model, you have every right to feel pleased.

B.E.

Thanks for posting the link to your article Robin, an interesting hypothesis.

The stern quarter sketch always gave me trouble with its clear indication of open galleries, as the closed in stern following the 1803 refit is perhaps one of the more confirmed aspects of her Trafalgar appearance. The drawing by Livesay of her stern when she returned after Trafalgar confirms this.

B.E.

I've enjoyed looking thro' your  build  Bob, a fine looking model.

I like what you've done with her, nice combination of timbers and colour scheme.

Regards,

B.E.

Those pins are a much better option Evan, will make the task of belaying  easier and neater.

Cheers,

M.

Hamilton,
Greyhound and Blandford were both built at Deptford d/y by the same master shipwright Richard Stacey. Both were commissioned in 1720.
There was very little difference in the as built dimensions of the two ships, Blandford being 1 foot longer.
Greyhound was broken up in 1741 and Blandford was sold in 1742.
We have touched on the rigging aspect of a sixth rate in a separate thread, but personally I would not continue to confuse myself  by trying to make sense of the Corel rigging plans, which probably contain many errors. Clear them from your mind and work from the Blandford book.
James Lees (Masting and Rigging of English ships of war 1625-1860) also includes a belaying plan for a 1719 establishment sixth rate in his book.
 

B.E.

I do love the atmosphere you are achieving with your build Frank, great photos.

Regards,

B.E.

hamilton,

The drawings in the book are at different scales 1:96, 1:48 and 1:192 but no matter. all you need to do is multiply the sizes in the drawings by say 96 and divide by 100 and you will have the measurement relevant to your build, that is supposing the kit is a true 1:100 scale.

I wouldn't worry about the rigging at this point; the sizes of all the rigging lines are given in the book in inches circumference which is the norm.

To convert say the Main stay which is 101/2" circ.  to mm diameter which is the norm for scale line the calculation is:-

10.5" circ  divided by 3.142 = 3.342"(dia) x 25.4 = 84.88mm (dia) divided by 100 (your scale) = 0.85mm diameter line (or nearest)

Similarly the six pounder guns carried by Blandford are listed as being 7' 6" long, so at your scale  that is 90" x 25.4 = 2286mm divided by 100 = 22.86mm long.

I think the Blandford book will contain all you need to  improve your kit.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

B.E.

Hello hamilton, Peter Goodwin does include staysails, and studding sails in the drawings, and he also shows pins in racks attached to the Mizen shrouds,(ok for the period - also indicated by James Lees)) and three pins shown fitted horizontally to a vertical rack attached to the Mizen mast. there are no pins in the cross pieces to the bitts.

B.E.

The more I see of your work Augie the more I like it, Syren is a hugely attractive model.

Regards,

B.E.

Sounds like an interesting project.

You might find some useful information on traditional wooden  boat building in this video.

Reference to it was made by a member on the old MSW.

If you are in the UK, a visit to Bucklers Hard may provide you with interesting background.

http://www.bucklershard.co.uk/

B.E.

Hammocks were washed in the British Navy, Captains issued orders when and where to be aired to  dry on their particular ships.

Brian Lavery in his Arming and fitting book devotes a chapter to Hammocks.

B.E.