Chuck Seiler

My opinion, not researched fact. Separating coatings of  topsides and bottoms at a designed load waterline required knowing the weight and buoyancy at the load condition at which the vessel was intended to float.  Some shipwrights could calculate buoyancies at different waterlines using similar numerical approximations as those embedded in today’s Computer systems.  They lacked, however an accurate way to determine the weight of the vessel prior to launch.  Prior to coppering there was also little need to paint the topsides differently than the bottom.  The logical place to end the (cheap) white or black stuff would be just below the Wales.  Prestige vessels might have been treated differently.
 
Roger

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the tallow was more a cream colour perhaps with a hint of yellow.
 
Mark

Most white stuff I see is too stark white in my opinion.  I think holly would do nicely.

Most white stuff I see is too stark white in my opinion.  I think holly would do nicely.

Thanks David
Again I see both, especially the last one, object-12551 appearing to follow the sheer of the wales.  The first is harder to see but object-12537 and object-15235  are very clear that they parallel the water line.   
Another quandry😕
Thanks again
Allan
 
Some models from RMG as well.
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66327
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66374
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66407
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66403

I suspect that the 'only to the waterline' version was for new ships on the ways. It would be far easier to paint the white stuff using the lower edge of the wale as a guide later on. Also, there was 'black stuff'....

The description specifically references a figurehead.  The ship in the print has no figurehead.

Other activities are taking a fair bit of my time, so this post will be primarily photos.
 
The first two strakes in place. All the planks are spiled and laser-cut and only clean up of the char was needed.

The boat is generally clinker-built, except for the two upper strakes which are carvel. There is one strake which abuts the nextmost upper strake in carvel fashion, but overlaps the strake below in clinker fashion. As there was no guidance as to how much overlap was required, I decided to work down from the top and add this hybrid strake last. There was a risk otherwise of the topmost strake being either too high or too low against the frames. This photo shows the topmost strake in place.

The planking complete.



 
Some minor trimming of the notches in the frames was occasionally necessary. Of more concern though, the upper planks were all slightly short, and short (a few mm) lengths of suitable scrap had to be inserted to close the gaps against the stern post. These aren't obvious from normal viewing distance. It's possible that I didn't fair the frames enough.
 
The parts for the fore and aft decks; parts 47 an 48 have their numbers transposed though this was obvious enough.

The thwarts and decks added to the hull.

 

Cheers.

Wow!  Looks really good.  You seem to have mastered those pesky cant frames.  The idea of disassembling the jig to remove the completed framed hull is interesting.

This build so far:

Started with the main frames.


Frame 3


Also made up was the skeleton jig and keel.


The floor supports were glued to the jig's base, but the outer frame supports were left unglued.
Initially, this was dry fitting.  Later I decided the fit of the frames and, especially, the keel is so tight, that removal later may be easier with the frame left dry.

The current state of the build


Frames dry fitted to the keel, awaiting glue. 


Aside:
The kit contains jigs for the cant frames (2 at the stern, three at the bow).

I found these elegant, but useless in practice.  In common with several other builders, I feel it is much easier to build the end frames in the skeleton jig.

Well, simply put...there is no reason to wait in order to paint.   Its best to have painted those areas before they became hard to reach.   Usually that is best when planning.   It is much easier to do a bit of touch up later and dust can be cleaned away without hurting the painted surfaces.
 
Having said that...I do keep several brushes of good quality in a cup of water all the time.   I do this to actually force the tips of the brush to bend and keep the bend.  This allows me to apply a bit of paint to the tip of the brush which can be used to get in some tight spaces.  But not that tight.   It is always best to paint parts before they become inaccessible. 
 
I have other brushes with even more of a bend.  These are three I had readily at hand.
 

Good Morning Everyone;
 
Some interesting thoughts are being added to this debate. However, although some are correct, and some somewhat less so, nobody has yet stated the truth regarding the reasons for adding wales to a ship. They were structural members, yes, and important ones; and they evolved over time from a number of single, relatively parallel strakes of timber into broader bands made up of several strakes together.
 
However, the main intention and function of wales was to counteract 'hogging', also called 'reaching'. This was the perennial problem of timber construction, wherein as a wave passes under a ship from end to end, the stern and bow in succession are left unsupported, and tend to droop. Over time, this led to the butt joints of the planking opening up, and to the keel becoming curved downward at each end. Warships were especially prone to this, due to the weight of the ordnance carried at bow and stern. 
 
The wales were separate strakes of heavier timbers, inserted in the planking, running parallel to the external planks. Although not always specified, they were often bolted to the timbers, not treenailed, for additional strength (remember that iron bolts were expensive, and were not used lightly)
 
In order to achieve the maximum benefit of this method of strengthening, the curvature of the wales was exaggerated relative to the sheer of the deck, so that the ends of the wales were higher relative to the line of the deck, than was the case amidships. 
 
The main wales were always sited so that they gave strength to the main deck, being in line with it at the midships, and above it at the bow and stern. 
 
As Druxey states above the decks were, in earlier times, stepped downwards at the end, in order to avoid the need to cut gunports through the wales, thereby weakening them. However, it was realised that this significantly weakened the resistance of the deck planking to hogging, and it was already recommended in England that steps should be avoided, by 1612. 
 
The internal planking, though, did follow the sheer of the decks.
 
The essential principle of internal planking was that at every location where there was a line of overlap in the ship's timbers, between floor timbers and futtocks, for example, and different ranks of futtocks, this overlap was strengthened with a much thicker band of planking, in many locations, and with quite a variety of names: for example, what in later times was known as 'spirketting', that is the run of thick timbers between the waterways and the gunport cills, was originally known as the 'spirkett wale'. This is because the spaces between the ends of the timbers were known as 'spirketts'. 
 
Others were 'sleepers'; 'middle bands'; and 'footwaling'. In later times these became known under the more generic term of 'thick stuff over the futtock heads'. 
 
In order for the wales of the model which started all this to look realistic, it is necessary that they must follow the sheer of the planking. 
 
All the best,
 
Mark P
 
 
 

Two valid points IMHO, but as the admins have what is sometimes a thankless job, like herding cats, adding to their load may not be such a good idea.   When it is my time I will post my library if I can.  If not, is there any rule that says my admiral or sons cannot post here if they log in on my member ID with what is going on and what is up for sale?  I looked but cannot find any rule to the contrary.
Allan

Allan,
    I don't know where I got that info from.  Maybe an actual quote or I merely deduced it from looking at plans.  My memory on the subject of galleons is that the frame futtocks were not fastened together as they were in the 18th and early 19th century.  Rather, they were fastened to a pair of wales and envisioned in the attached diagram. 

Keith,
    I find it hard to believe they are more 'rub rails'.  As Allan pointed out, in the multi deck SOLs of the 18th/19th century you have wales well above where any other ship or pier would contact,  If they don't serve as a place to anchor the knees, they are at least longitudinal structural members designed to strengthen the hull... along with internal stringers.  Of course Joshua Humphries took the internal strengthening to a whole new level with CONSTITUTION.

Allan,
    I don't know where I got that info from.  Maybe an actual quote or I merely deduced it from looking at plans.  My memory on the subject of galleons is that the frame futtocks were not fastened together as they were in the 18th and early 19th century.  Rather, they were fastened to a pair of wales and envisioned in the attached diagram. 

Keith,
    I find it hard to believe they are more 'rub rails'.  As Allan pointed out, in the multi deck SOLs of the 18th/19th century you have wales well above where any other ship or pier would contact,  If they don't serve as a place to anchor the knees, they are at least longitudinal structural members designed to strengthen the hull... along with internal stringers.  Of course Joshua Humphries took the internal strengthening to a whole new level with CONSTITUTION.

It was my understanding that the wale(s) is/are a longitudinal structural member.  Thicker than a normal strake, it provides heft for the knees to be bolted to.  Larger ships had multiple wales.  If the wale does not follow the deck sheer, this must not be true.
 
    What IS the purpose of the wale?

It was my understanding that the wale(s) is/are a longitudinal structural member.  Thicker than a normal strake, it provides heft for the knees to be bolted to.  Larger ships had multiple wales.  If the wale does not follow the deck sheer, this must not be true.
 
    What IS the purpose of the wale?

I own everything that Jim made except for the ropewalk. This means that I have corresponded with him and Donna many times. I have always found them to be prompt and courteous, but there was also something else ... they were such warm people! I didn't know that Jim was only 64 (meaning he was my age when I bought my table saw from him). That is much too young. I think as we can see here, his loss was felt not only by his friends and family, but also by people who have never met him, like myself. 
 
Rest in peace. 

We lost one of the good ones.. he was good friend and a master when it came to taking a concept or a idea and making it a reality. He will be missed.  

I can not explain how devastated I am to be announcing this.  My dear and close friend Jim Byrnes has passed away way too soon.   Many have you know and have met Jim.  He was a fantastic guy and true original.   Many of you own his tools which are second to none in the hobby.    I have been speaking with his wife Donna who many of you also know.  Jim was diagnosed with ALS in February.  ALS is a nasty disease and there is no cure.  Jim had a particularly aggressive type of ALS and he passed away last month in October.  He was just 64 years old.
 
This news will be devastating to many...but Donna has asked if everyone would have patience and give here and their family time to grieve.  As you might expect,  the business will continue to be shut down,  but will reopen at some time in the near future.  Donna will continue supporting the hobby and their customers when the time is right.   But please have patience and allow the family to grieve at this sad time.  Donna will let me know when the shop will reopen.  I will make an announcement at that time.  
 
I am so devastated by this...I just spoke to him not too long ago and it breaks my heart.  His obituary is below.
 
Jim is survived by his wife, Donna; son, James William (Krystal) and grandchildren Julian and Sloane; brother, Peter (Cindy) Byrnes and sisters, Mary (James) Hayman, Catherine Byrnes, Veronica Byrnes and Elaine Byrnes (Robert Campbell); brother-in-law, Eddie (Marcia) Grissom; brother-in-law, Frank Marzovilla, and many cherished nieces and nephews. Not to be forgotten is his beloved English Springer Spaniel, Becky, who is waiting every day for him to come home to her!

He was preceded in death by his parents, James and Lorraine Byrnes; brother, Robert Byrnes; nephew, Michael Byrnes; brother-in-law, Pete Stuffer; and mother-in-law, Opal Grissom.

Along with restoring vintage cars, from a very young age Jim had a true passion for model ship-building. For many years he had done extensive research on the U.S.S. Constitution and was in the final phase of completing his scratch build of the Constitution as it was originally launched in 1797. Following a career of working with Defense contract companies, Jim worked many years with and became a partner with Conceptual Engineering in Sanford FL. In 2002 Jim and Donna formed Model Machines LLC. Jim designed and developed small modeler’s machines that are now purchased worldwide and used in many high school and college machine shops and in museums for their restorations. There have been numerous reviews and articles written about Jim which were published in various modelers’ magazines. Modelers using Jim’s machines range from ship, railroad, doll houses, doll house furniture, pen turners, segmented bowls and architects. In recent years guitar, harp and violin makers were added to this list. Jim was a remarkable craftsman and had many more machines in development stage for modelers. He was always ready to help and mentor others, many of whom soon became his very close friends.

 Jim was also a member of the Nautical Research Guild and attended conferences throughout the U.S. for 20 years, developing many close friendships within this organization.

Jim was a humble, quiet man who was deeply loved and will be missed by so many. Our hearts, as a family, are broken. Thru this profound loss, if we can ask one thing from this place of despair, it would be to embrace your loved ones every chance you get.
 
 

Sounds like you're a heavy coffee drinker. I've broken a lot of mugs over the years, but I've yet to wear one out!  

Good job!!