kirill4

Good day Jonathan,

Your rigging looks pretty good!

This wooden bar  which You installed - it is futtock-staff , it looks very nice !!! .

As a rule Lower ends of  futtock-shrouds  need to be taken round the futtock-staff... there you did it a little bit wrong...

There is very good book about 16-17 rigging written by R.C. Anderson "The rigging of the ships in the days of the spritsail topmast 1600-1720" where You can found answers practicaly about all aspects of 17 century riging including end of 16 th century...

I have some pictures where we could see futtock -shrouds arrangements... there are scans from Anderson and Mondfeld(Vasa) books and foto of modern but very accurate replica of Duyfken and Half Moon 

there is suggestions for rigging arrangements... please check also positions ,sizes of your fore,main,and mizzen knights  ... biggest should be main knight, and they shoul have at least 3 sheeves in the knight for arranging tie hallyards  and one more sheeve for top rope ...

I saw on the pictures which You posted , that all your knights have same size...and only one hole in??? 

there shold be something like this \Duyfken replica

there are some quality Mayflower drwngs(polish and german found them somewhere in internet fields) You could use as reference in case some modification need to be made , in particulars, there some modifications/adding elements (which missed in kit) need to be made on your stem and beakhead 

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/Vqn7/UW6PYR6ei

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/8gtE/UnD1EaEJh

Good day Bill,

If I would be You , I will prefer to move it in more acurate  position :))) ...

  Franckly speaking I used to do countless rearrangements and  modification  of rigging in my model ,

often a few times changed  one spar or rigging ,so already became not  worry too much abt such issues...

  consider that old holes and damaged paints in plastic models always  could be easily recovered with suitable fillers,piece of plastics and new paint...and will looks same as before :)))

But If You don't want spend time for changing bowsprit position again, just leave it like that...anyway it will be better than kit's version.

  There is one point - You would better  to check length of bowsprit / as already discussed recently in "Revenge build " if it is short, there will be not sufficient space for spritsail operation ...

  and maybe there is sence to make it from wood - I changed main for wood ,made it from artists brush handle ,

using my DREMEL and sand paper I made brush handle to desired form ,than painted it in the same color as other remaining plastic spars painted...

the matter is (why need to make bowsprit from wood)- when You start rigging  bowsprit  will be quite loaded element , and if left it plastic there will be a big risk to bend it upward when You will rigging fore stays...

parrels - I made them from waist plastic sheet (take it from some instant noodles used pakage box) and so called Japanise bisser , which is almost twice smaller in size than conventional bisser , and this size was very good in scale for my model 1:100

for your model You could use ordinary bisser for main sails and japanise bisser for topsails...

there are a few pictures how I made my parrels ... and simplified diagram wich I made for parrel tackles arrangements

to fix temporary parrels on the mast wnen making loop on the parrels rope I used two sides scotch

Good day Jeff,

It will be interesting , upcoming sails making adventure !!!

I've made main from percale cotton...

I think kit's rigging plan is good , must be good! :)))

and for more information ,if ness-ry ,we always have these very detailed historical paintings and R.C.Anderson book which gives us accurate description of each rope of standing and running rigging ...

there is  very interesting ,high level model of flemish galleon made by Igor Capinos, exelent source of various details could be seen !

http://sailmodel.ho.ua/galleon/index.htm

roughly say it should be same length as fore mast...

did You check the length of bowsprit... seems too short ?🙄

You asked how to secure yards to the mast -

I used piece of steel wire to connect yard and mast - drilled small holes in both and fitted wire between yard and mast... when yard fitted at place this wire couldn't be seen...

and  additionally yards secured to the masts by parrels - I've made them in simplified form, just to show this part of rigging presents...

by the way, such positioning of the bowsprit - off the center line, but stepped alongside fore mast  continue in use till the end of  the 17  th century -  look at the contemporary model of "Royal James 1671" and  its bowsprit location

Good  day Bill,

By my opinion position of bowsprit looks much better now ... to avoid intensive modifications this position could be considered as final ! :))) 

But I meant something else in my previous post "... need to be stepped to the one side of the foremast and stem and secured in such way that it's tip lays on the center line of the hull...so there will be angle to the hull and bowsprit will not be  parallel to center line..."  but OK , maybe this position of the bowsprit will be not exactly hystorical accurate, but much better and  more correctly  than Trumpeter's proposal🙂

My sugestion was :

Good day Jeff,

Oh yes! 

On your last posted picture bowsprit length looks quite proportional !

And spritsail yard position on this picture seems correct!

Now I understood that the problem lies with the prototype on the box, but they did nessasary correction in the actual kit!

Very good!!!

I'm Sorry for that too intensive inputs regarding bowsprit length from my side :)))

just was afraid to see model spoiled by unproportional rigs :)))

Do You plan to fitt sails on your model?

All the best!!!

bowsprit position - there are a few contemporary pictures-look at the ships which are in front vews

Good day Bill,

I'm sure Trumpeter did something wrong here... as seems to me , they start it right, when positioned bowsprit stepped to the one side of the foremast , but after that they continued in wrong way when choosen such extreme angle for bowsprit ...

bowshprit need to be stepped to the one side of the foremast and stem and secured in such way that it's tip lays on the center line of the hull...so there will be angle to the hull and bowsprit will not be  parallel to center line, but this angle will be much less than Trumpeter did.

   There one more Trumpeter issue -  location of the main hatch 🙄🤔!!! 

If in case with bowsprit  I could understand more or less the way of their thinking, but in case with main hatch location I have no idea at all, why they placed it off the center line???🤔🤔🤔

This is only my thoughts, but not a call for starting scratch build😄

As I understood This model represents exact replica of Mayflower II, and there is very nice book devoted construction and building of this replica, this book written with his own hand by designer of MayflowerII replica...

I think it will be very usefull to have such book under hand as source of all nessary information while You continue building  your  model of replica Mayflower II.

In this book author gives description of functioning and sizes of all spars and rigging reproduced in replica, and also gives very interesting background of english shipbuilding in 16/begining 17 centuries...W.A.Baker The Mayflower and Other Colonial Vessels

and another book devoted to building Mayflower model written by german author N.C.L.Hackney ... it is in german, but  provided grafic material is very representative ...

I have both of them in digital form, if You need them let me know by email I will send You links for downloading for private use...

Good day Jeff,

Thanks for information abt this model , I didn't know about designer of this kit - It looks like this Revenge model designed by Chris Watton almost identical to R.Hoeckel's  Revenge reconstruction/ model, as seems to me they are like twin brothers! 😆

 exept Chris Watton didn't fitt his model with topgallants which is quite correct for english galleon of that period  and in case of northen area of operation...

returning to bowsprit length , I still don't understand, if all calculations correct, how  than spritsail will work when bowsprit such short and there is no room for the sail....just for fun I've checked some contemporary pictures with galleons... and it looks like bowsprit in this kit  somehow lost 2-3 cm of its nessesary length...

I dodn't insist on my sugestions, just strange for me  ... at least , if You are not going to fitt your model with sails , such short bowsprit and as consequence  wrong location of spritsail yard will be not important...

Batavia replica gammoning, just for reference...

Good day John,

May be there is sence don't use original kit rigging diagramm at all?

But use the rigging diagram for the St Philippe instead of?

I'm planning to do so...🙄

Good day Bill,

bowsprit's tip should be lined up with hull center line...

there is scan from Anderson book regarding bowsprit location...

Goodday Bill,

Agree with Backer,and also need to be considered its location,it passes by side of the foremast and secured on the sbs( commonly for english built vessels) or port side of the mast...

Pay attention, finaly it must be secured and pozitioned in such way that nock of the bowsprit will be located on the centre line of the hull..

there is a very good ,I would say briliant book abt all such specific questions of 16-17 cntr rigging...

if You don't have ,I reccomend to find it...or I could share my electr.copy with You,if You want

Good day Bill,

Thank You for the information - this set of" old and new wood effect " is very interesting!

I will check more details abt this set in internet...

Thank You!:)))

Good day Bill!

I heard many positive feedback about Vallejo acrylics paints...

And You and your model confirmed it again! :)))

Do they have stains for making wood and weathered effects?

Good day Bill

To paint cannon I used "Plaid FolkArts" acrylic paints and stains...color wrought iron for burrel, caramel color for wood parts as base and after brown stains were used...

For model hull and masts and rigging coloring I used ordinary artist acrylic paints which I found in nearest shop, I mix them to the color I wanted, mainly I used ochra,broun,black colors for making mix...

as stains I used also !dry !artistic pastels which I grounded to powder...and mix with water...

to fix painted area I used deep matt acrylic warnish,as final coating...

I could say ,that one, paints which You use for Your model( I saw them on your pictures) seems to me are much better!

Hi Bill,

Painting Looks very nice!!!

All the best!!!

ps

don't You think to make metal rings ( ring+eye bolt),imitation for rope securing on the cannon port lids?

it could be easy made from copper or brass wire,but add more realistic vew...I used  drill 1 mm for the rings calibration , and some sweing needle smaller diam.for the ring bolt calibration...

same /similar method You could use for making rigging cannon for example...or various tackles ,when tackle standing parts need to be secured on deck or board

Hi Bill,

Looks nice!!!

All the best!!!

As soon as You are busy with standing rigging, but didn't start fore stays yet ,

as seems to me ,my be there is sence to check bowsprit length???

It looks like kit's bowsprit too short!...

compare to the contemporary pictures and even modern reconstraction, such as Elizabeth Jonas model for example ,which looks made based on the same lines :))) as yours model...

It could happened too short bowsprit  make some negative effect in general appearance/vew of the model...???

 At least when look on the picture of complete model posted on the kit box , bowsprit seems too short...

In general, if Im not mistaken,in cas of "galleon" period visiable part of bowsprit should be not less than visiable part of fore mast, or may be slightly longer...?

as example some contemporary pictures

exmpl 01

example 02

modern Piter Kirsch reconstruction

PK rcnstr

All said above just my personal opinion, based on ipression of assembled original kit model,picture on the box, may be in reality there is nothing wrong with kit bowsprit length...

Jeff,

Looks very nice and accurate rigging job!!!

Wish You All the best!!!