kirill4

8 hours ago, Meriadoc Brandybuck said:

Kirill4, thanks for all the resources!  I'll have to dig into them a bit.  I'm not going for hyper historical accuracy but I would like to make it look appropriate where possible.  The garlands around the lower topmasts sound like an interesting detail..

Under the waterline, for example, I want to leave the wood grain but I do want to delineate it somehow.  Perhaps I could airbrush a thin off-white stripe?

 

I think they must have used whatever cheap scrap wood they had on hand to plank the deck, perhaps planks that they found unsuitable for the hull planking.  Unlike the sides it doesn't have to be symmetrical or pretty, just flat.  Interesting fact!

Good day,

Thanks ,Wellcome ...I didn' t mean hyper of couse :)))

*garlands - yes , interesting detail , I think it should work well in case of Revenge rigging details !!!

as I understood , in that period , there was not used castoms  to lowering  topmast in case of weather getting worst or some other reasons ///and top mast was secured to the mast in some way of permanent securing - such as "garland" ?

such type of connecting mast and top mast we could see almost on all contemporary galleon's  pictures ... 

*I think water line in the form of modern meaning was not exist in that time /// doubt You shoud to show it on the model, just one of the variant You should paint under water part of the hull entire  in @dirty yelowish white color@ or dark brown color , whatever You like ... my private opinion, for elizabethian galleon most suitable will be " white" colors than dark brown

Actually , to be history accurate , ther was special procedure and materials used for protecting underwater part of the vessel in that period , and after completion it doesn't look the same as the above water part of the hull at all !

May be there is  sence don't worry too mach about wood grains?

Dear Tomasz,

I don't have model building experience at all , exept maybe assembling a few plastic models ... but this is a big difference compare to wooden models buildings ... but during assembling my model I knew somthing/a little bit ,about galleons, which I could share with You ,if I see something  which  need to be commented by my opinion :))) but of couse it is only my comments

Actually , as I found later on , there is some/a lot of information about galleons in free access in the net 

interesting fact, how real deck planking looks like on 17 th century vessel - Vasa deck as example

far from "ideal" lines of present day model's deck :)))

under water part \from Sailing Ships of War

Yes!

Absolutely agree with this...I think as soon we already discussed it, we knew about  some points, and now need  just continue building...and finaly to complete it!  :)))

Good day,

Welcome to the galleons building cosiety!

I think this Amati Revenge kit which You mentioned ,presently is most accurate representation of elizabethian galleon on the wooden model market...:)))

Agree with You about grating modifications if You planned to do it...

AND!

may be there is sence to check / to look at  locations of forward gun's ports and how that broken lines of wales passes in forward part as well ,...looks like it has some  excessive break in this kit compare to famous M. Baker galleon profile?

by the way ,

there is very interesting and informative resource of galleon  here

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/f528-Revenge-England.html including alternative reconstruction of GH after Raimond Acker https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t6619f952-Alternative-Rekonstruktion-der-GOLDEN-HIND.html

and here

https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73412

and building Revenge from scratch

https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=74848

last two in russian could be fixed with google translation

if text need to be read

there are a few interesting books about english galleon shipbuilding history

All the best!!!

Kirill

Oh no! :)))

this is not a call for total rebuild ...

just formaly ,I feel this question must be done due to nature of the model which is galleon :)))

^g:)))

why deadeyes round shape but not triangle than? 

provocation question! :)))

Good day,

I Agree with Thunder , There is sence, to use more specific book ,such as devoted to Mayflower or Susan Constant where is information about english galleons let say - concentrated :)))...

I advise to use R.C.Anderson book just because I used it when was busy with  rigging of my model, unfortunately or not, but that time I didn't have Noel C L Hackney books about Mayflower...

I had book" Susan Constant "but didn't use it in such grade as I used R.C. Anderson...don't know why, may be Anderson's book seems to me more informative and I consider it as prime source of information because of author "background" ....and still love it!

by the way,I remember

in that time when I was trying to learn galleon rigging and to make rigging plans for my model using informatiin from Anderson book, I ve made some sketchs for better understanding how rigging could be done on my model  

it was just experiment with rigging/which  I was interesting too much,but masts and spars fashion was left without changes ,as it was reproduced in the kit

first You need calculate your main stay diam. manualy = 0,166 x biggest main mast diameter

second You should fill results into green cell in the table,all other sizes will be calculated auto

I don't know... They looks quite good for me!

general appearance/ distances between deadeyes/ on post #49 seems right

Could suggest, just some thoughts how to make them all similar....what if first

1.to make rings of requested and necessary diameter,

fabricate them on some of round stick,

2.than soldering cut and blackening rings entire

3.and finaly adjust necessary shape around deaeyes

Good day,

Did You try to use exel table?

for auto calculationcall of all of your standing riggings?

Good! 

From my point of vew , it looks more accurate and logical! than previous version...

at least top mast shrouds need to be connected to the main shrouds for balance reasons, and your suggestion works in this way

?smthng like this ?

just as suggestion...

Good day,

This part- 

just imitation easy could be made, using the same fittings You already installed on the top platform of the model...just need to add futtock staf and shrouds , this parts lets say " mandatory" and will improove accuracy of your model! :)))

Good day,

If You have time,would be better  first of all to read that book, R.C .Anderson...

Not ness-ry to read it all in one time..

read it in portion, when You will be busy with shrouds - read article about shrouds , busy with stays - to read in article all regarding stays,

and so on...book devided for section, so it will perfectly quide You in rigging!:)))

You could first work with table , and calculate all standing rigging sizes... table use diam.main mast for calculations...

Images could be used for studing rigging lines and as referens for better understanding how it should looks like ...

All the best!

Good day shipman,

Unfortunately I have only this drawings of CS made by Campbell,which could be used for discussion /for  reffer to some details...would  be glad to find some another of such high detailed, but don't have ...

Good day Bruma,

I understood your difficulties with the hearts,

regarding position - if We  look at foto, than positions of lower hearts they are under letter of name plates, on the model picture they looks shifted too forward?

or it is just visual effect?

All the best !

futtock shrouds ,as variant 

Tomasz,

Futtock shrouds!???🙄😁 or just don't like them?

Good day,

Understood about location of belaying pins... most probably railings are the best places for them in this case...:)

Regarding fitting or not tie halliard block I don' know exactly about SOS case?

The only thing ,if You decided to fitt them or don't fitt and use jeers ,anyway than all masts should be fitted in the same way .

I know there was difference in english and continental ( Europe)way of  arrangements of lower/ main sails...

First,english tradition, mainly used jeers ,not tie halliards....but this is depend on period of couse,in the begining England  use tie halliard as well...

there is scans from R.C.Anderson's book

on this engravings surely we could see tie halliards blocks of fore and main sails

19 hours ago, Bruma said:

Congratulation for your wonderful Cutty Sark! 
Looking at your sails there are details that catches my eyes. 
Your yards seem to have the jackstays, as the real Cutty Sark have. However, your sails are bent on the yards, and not on the jackstays, which is, in my understanding, the correct way of bend them. 
Secondly, the chains going up from the edge of the lower yards should be the sheets. 
If so, they should be shackled to the sheet point of the upper sails, not to a block below an upper yard.
Please take this lines only as an open discussion, I have in no way the intention of criticize your model, which is beautiful. 
I'm myself building a Cutty Sark , I know how complex it can get to follow the rigging, and I would like to discover any eventual mistakes as soon as possible to correct them. That's why I'm writing you. 
I am in no way an expert, so take my advices as they are, just a guess, and if you like your model as it is please ignore them! 

 

Good day,

I Agree with Bruma remarks, I doubt if it is right way

*to bent sails to the yard in this case( clipper) but not to the jackstays

*and agreed with remarks about chain sheet and clew lines attachements- I think this part of your rigging need to be additionaly studied for understanding system work and checked,of  couse if You want and need it ;)...

this couple of screenshot from Harold .A. Underhill book 

hau masting and rigging clipper ship 33.pdf hau masting and rigging clipper ship 34.pdf

Good day,

have some doubts regarding position ( under name plate)and the way of securing hearts/ (not deadeyes) of standing parts of the stays to the hull compare to the Campbell drawings and his notes on the drawings...

and position of the middle rail in the kit looks wrong?

Cutty Sark.pdf

Good day,

Nice work!

Talking of  pinrails, consider they were not in use in that time( but belaying pins were), even on 17-18 century models we could hard to find them... maybe to add just horisontal bar ?

just for information,there are some foto of the tie halliard block shape - replicas of Batavia,Mayflower,Duyfken

Interesting that Batavia replica used upper sheeve in this blok,but other replicas - not