nobotch

This guy's an angry stock-holder! 

George you are kind of correct...
 
 
The Frisoli's  actually own MicroMark.  John is the president and owner.  So he isnt exactly being fair and truthful....Yes he does own a MicroMark Laser Cutter  .....or you might say he owns them all   ,  until they sell one of those inferior machines to someone else.  He just left that part out of the post.....
 
Link below.
 
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-frisoli/35/a7/8a1
 
Chuck

It's the first picture in the first post in the thread I linked to.
 
No need to click back to that thread again just for the picture, here it is again:
 

The first one I made of solid mahogany for the plate and thin birch plywood for the splitter.
For the next ones (see attached picture) I used 3mm (1/8") birch plywood for the plate which helps to keep the edge near the holes intact.
 
Start by cutting the plate to size, bore and countersink the screw holes before thinning down these borders and before rounding over the corners.
 
As the recess in the table is too thin to receive a stable enough wooden zero clearance plate I used thicker wood (the 3mm ply) and thinned it down where it sits on the aluminium ledge in the table, using the Byrnes saw itself to do so: raise the blade by as much as you need to reduce the plate thickness - there are quite a few cuts to do, start with the innermost ones. Clean up the surfaces with a chisel, knife or scraper.
 
Once the plate fits the recess (it should be perfectly level and drop in nicely without applying any force at all, if it's a bit a loose fit that's fine too) you have to thin down the small zone where the flange would otherwise touch the insert when the blade is all up. Then screw the insert plate in place, align the rip fence over the right edge of the plate so that you will not cut into the fence while now rising the blade with the saw turned on.
 
Now, with the saw unplugged move the fence to the right, remove the four screws and lift the plate slightly with the blade still in the slot you just have cut, and move the fence to the left until it touches the right edge of the insert plate. Secure the fence in this position and replace the wooden insert with the one that came with the saw, then cut open the slot the rear side of the wooden insert.
 
Next, cut out the splitter to the shape it needs to be. Maybe you'd like to first make a cardboard or paper model/template of it to define its shape, it really helps. Don't make the splitter too high because these rather thin splitters would become too flexible over its height.
 
Sand, plane or scrape it to the exact thickness of the kerf your blade makes, screw the insert in place and tack glue the splitter into its correct position it the extended slot. 1mm from the completely raised blade is just fine, don't go too close. When the glue is dry place the insert upside-down into the recess in the table and build up an anchorage around the part of the splitter that will be inside the saw. Be aware of the position of the blade support.
 
When the glue  has dried place the insert/splitter in its normal position using the 4 screws, and sand the splitter further down a little bit from each side using a small, square sanding block (240 grit is ok) and a square wooden block to hold against it from the opposite side. In the end the splitter should be about 0.1 - 0.15mm thinner than the saw kerf.
 
I hope I didn't forget anything essential. The whole thing sounds more complicated than it is, but it takes a bit time, patience and 3D imagination to do it.

Not really.
Actually I had asked myself the same question the other way round: any reason I could not or should not use wooden inserts instead of aluminium ones? As I am much more familiar with woodworking than metal working the decision was an easy one.
 
Maybe a metal splitter/anchorage assembly screwed to the insert would be slightly sturdier, but the little bit of additional sturdiness is not necessary.
 
Regarding the wooden inserts: they are as stiff and sturdy as the aluminium ones if you make them of 3mm or thicker birch plywood. This is easy earned money at saving 8$  per insert, especially if you make a batch. I first made one to see how it goes, and then in less than an hour a batch of 10.

Not really.
Actually I had asked myself the same question the other way round: any reason I could not or should not use wooden inserts instead of aluminium ones? As I am much more familiar with woodworking than metal working the decision was an easy one.
 
Maybe a metal splitter/anchorage assembly screwed to the insert would be slightly sturdier, but the little bit of additional sturdiness is not necessary.
 
Regarding the wooden inserts: they are as stiff and sturdy as the aluminium ones if you make them of 3mm or thicker birch plywood. This is easy earned money at saving 8$  per insert, especially if you make a batch. I first made one to see how it goes, and then in less than an hour a batch of 10.

It's the first picture in the first post in the thread I linked to.
 
No need to click back to that thread again just for the picture, here it is again:
 

The first one I made of solid mahogany for the plate and thin birch plywood for the splitter.
For the next ones (see attached picture) I used 3mm (1/8") birch plywood for the plate which helps to keep the edge near the holes intact.
 
Start by cutting the plate to size, bore and countersink the screw holes before thinning down these borders and before rounding over the corners.
 
As the recess in the table is too thin to receive a stable enough wooden zero clearance plate I used thicker wood (the 3mm ply) and thinned it down where it sits on the aluminium ledge in the table, using the Byrnes saw itself to do so: raise the blade by as much as you need to reduce the plate thickness - there are quite a few cuts to do, start with the innermost ones. Clean up the surfaces with a chisel, knife or scraper.
 
Once the plate fits the recess (it should be perfectly level and drop in nicely without applying any force at all, if it's a bit a loose fit that's fine too) you have to thin down the small zone where the flange would otherwise touch the insert when the blade is all up. Then screw the insert plate in place, align the rip fence over the right edge of the plate so that you will not cut into the fence while now rising the blade with the saw turned on.
 
Now, with the saw unplugged move the fence to the right, remove the four screws and lift the plate slightly with the blade still in the slot you just have cut, and move the fence to the left until it touches the right edge of the insert plate. Secure the fence in this position and replace the wooden insert with the one that came with the saw, then cut open the slot the rear side of the wooden insert.
 
Next, cut out the splitter to the shape it needs to be. Maybe you'd like to first make a cardboard or paper model/template of it to define its shape, it really helps. Don't make the splitter too high because these rather thin splitters would become too flexible over its height.
 
Sand, plane or scrape it to the exact thickness of the kerf your blade makes, screw the insert in place and tack glue the splitter into its correct position it the extended slot. 1mm from the completely raised blade is just fine, don't go too close. When the glue is dry place the insert upside-down into the recess in the table and build up an anchorage around the part of the splitter that will be inside the saw. Be aware of the position of the blade support.
 
When the glue  has dried place the insert/splitter in its normal position using the 4 screws, and sand the splitter further down a little bit from each side using a small, square sanding block (240 grit is ok) and a square wooden block to hold against it from the opposite side. In the end the splitter should be about 0.1 - 0.15mm thinner than the saw kerf.
 
I hope I didn't forget anything essential. The whole thing sounds more complicated than it is, but it takes a bit time, patience and 3D imagination to do it.

It's the first picture in the first post in the thread I linked to.
 
No need to click back to that thread again just for the picture, here it is again:
 

The first one I made of solid mahogany for the plate and thin birch plywood for the splitter.
For the next ones (see attached picture) I used 3mm (1/8") birch plywood for the plate which helps to keep the edge near the holes intact.
 
Start by cutting the plate to size, bore and countersink the screw holes before thinning down these borders and before rounding over the corners.
 
As the recess in the table is too thin to receive a stable enough wooden zero clearance plate I used thicker wood (the 3mm ply) and thinned it down where it sits on the aluminium ledge in the table, using the Byrnes saw itself to do so: raise the blade by as much as you need to reduce the plate thickness - there are quite a few cuts to do, start with the innermost ones. Clean up the surfaces with a chisel, knife or scraper.
 
Once the plate fits the recess (it should be perfectly level and drop in nicely without applying any force at all, if it's a bit a loose fit that's fine too) you have to thin down the small zone where the flange would otherwise touch the insert when the blade is all up. Then screw the insert plate in place, align the rip fence over the right edge of the plate so that you will not cut into the fence while now rising the blade with the saw turned on.
 
Now, with the saw unplugged move the fence to the right, remove the four screws and lift the plate slightly with the blade still in the slot you just have cut, and move the fence to the left until it touches the right edge of the insert plate. Secure the fence in this position and replace the wooden insert with the one that came with the saw, then cut open the slot the rear side of the wooden insert.
 
Next, cut out the splitter to the shape it needs to be. Maybe you'd like to first make a cardboard or paper model/template of it to define its shape, it really helps. Don't make the splitter too high because these rather thin splitters would become too flexible over its height.
 
Sand, plane or scrape it to the exact thickness of the kerf your blade makes, screw the insert in place and tack glue the splitter into its correct position it the extended slot. 1mm from the completely raised blade is just fine, don't go too close. When the glue is dry place the insert upside-down into the recess in the table and build up an anchorage around the part of the splitter that will be inside the saw. Be aware of the position of the blade support.
 
When the glue  has dried place the insert/splitter in its normal position using the 4 screws, and sand the splitter further down a little bit from each side using a small, square sanding block (240 grit is ok) and a square wooden block to hold against it from the opposite side. In the end the splitter should be about 0.1 - 0.15mm thinner than the saw kerf.
 
I hope I didn't forget anything essential. The whole thing sounds more complicated than it is, but it takes a bit time, patience and 3D imagination to do it.

It's the first picture in the first post in the thread I linked to.
 
No need to click back to that thread again just for the picture, here it is again:
 

The first one I made of solid mahogany for the plate and thin birch plywood for the splitter.
For the next ones (see attached picture) I used 3mm (1/8") birch plywood for the plate which helps to keep the edge near the holes intact.
 
Start by cutting the plate to size, bore and countersink the screw holes before thinning down these borders and before rounding over the corners.
 
As the recess in the table is too thin to receive a stable enough wooden zero clearance plate I used thicker wood (the 3mm ply) and thinned it down where it sits on the aluminium ledge in the table, using the Byrnes saw itself to do so: raise the blade by as much as you need to reduce the plate thickness - there are quite a few cuts to do, start with the innermost ones. Clean up the surfaces with a chisel, knife or scraper.
 
Once the plate fits the recess (it should be perfectly level and drop in nicely without applying any force at all, if it's a bit a loose fit that's fine too) you have to thin down the small zone where the flange would otherwise touch the insert when the blade is all up. Then screw the insert plate in place, align the rip fence over the right edge of the plate so that you will not cut into the fence while now rising the blade with the saw turned on.
 
Now, with the saw unplugged move the fence to the right, remove the four screws and lift the plate slightly with the blade still in the slot you just have cut, and move the fence to the left until it touches the right edge of the insert plate. Secure the fence in this position and replace the wooden insert with the one that came with the saw, then cut open the slot the rear side of the wooden insert.
 
Next, cut out the splitter to the shape it needs to be. Maybe you'd like to first make a cardboard or paper model/template of it to define its shape, it really helps. Don't make the splitter too high because these rather thin splitters would become too flexible over its height.
 
Sand, plane or scrape it to the exact thickness of the kerf your blade makes, screw the insert in place and tack glue the splitter into its correct position it the extended slot. 1mm from the completely raised blade is just fine, don't go too close. When the glue is dry place the insert upside-down into the recess in the table and build up an anchorage around the part of the splitter that will be inside the saw. Be aware of the position of the blade support.
 
When the glue  has dried place the insert/splitter in its normal position using the 4 screws, and sand the splitter further down a little bit from each side using a small, square sanding block (240 grit is ok) and a square wooden block to hold against it from the opposite side. In the end the splitter should be about 0.1 - 0.15mm thinner than the saw kerf.
 
I hope I didn't forget anything essential. The whole thing sounds more complicated than it is, but it takes a bit time, patience and 3D imagination to do it.

Thanks nobotch, but I might point out that the link in the first line of your post links back to this thread. Could you fix this please?  

Some time ago I posted here my own additions and mods I immediately made to the saw after I bought it, and I find them useful, helpful or even necessary every time I use the saw.
 
 
It takes two screws to remove the fence, which is quick enough for me. What in the pictures may seem to be four other screws are just location pins.

A riving knife would be a great thing, but a good one that can quickly be exchanged according to the saw disk used surely would be an expensive solution. I overcame this issue by making my own zero-clearance plates which include a splitter (shown in the thread I linked to above), which works great. Making those plates/splitters involves some precision work but pays off.

For ripping I just use two push sticks, one with a notch cut out on one side of its tip so I can hold the work piece down and at the same time against the fence, and the other just plain square to shove the workpiece forward.
Edit 2: I use a "short fence" going to less than the middle of the blade, and of course the splitter.
This is a quick and easy solution which allowed me to cut dozens of literally meter-long 1mm and 2mm thin strips that turned out to vary considerably less than half a tenth of a millimetre in thickness from end to end.
It is important that the square push stick is broad enough to go at least to the blade. It also should be really square as should be the back of the workpiece too. Like this you will be able to shove your stuff straight through the blade without having to reach with a stick between the blade and the fence. For long pieces an outfeed table is essential (mine is also in the thread I linked to in the first line of this post).
 
Edit 1: link fixed

Some time ago I posted here my own additions and mods I immediately made to the saw after I bought it, and I find them useful, helpful or even necessary every time I use the saw.
 
 
It takes two screws to remove the fence, which is quick enough for me. What in the pictures may seem to be four other screws are just location pins.

A riving knife would be a great thing, but a good one that can quickly be exchanged according to the saw disk used surely would be an expensive solution. I overcame this issue by making my own zero-clearance plates which include a splitter (shown in the thread I linked to above), which works great. Making those plates/splitters involves some precision work but pays off.

For ripping I just use two push sticks, one with a notch cut out on one side of its tip so I can hold the work piece down and at the same time against the fence, and the other just plain square to shove the workpiece forward.
Edit 2: I use a "short fence" going to less than the middle of the blade, and of course the splitter.
This is a quick and easy solution which allowed me to cut dozens of literally meter-long 1mm and 2mm thin strips that turned out to vary considerably less than half a tenth of a millimetre in thickness from end to end.
It is important that the square push stick is broad enough to go at least to the blade. It also should be really square as should be the back of the workpiece too. Like this you will be able to shove your stuff straight through the blade without having to reach with a stick between the blade and the fence. For long pieces an outfeed table is essential (mine is also in the thread I linked to in the first line of this post).
 
Edit 1: link fixed

A small improvement that I found useful for the saw, was simply a piece of plywood with a handle on each end of it for making it a little less awkward to move from one place to the other. The rubber feet on the saw itself won't let it slide, and the plywood can be easily clamped to almost any work-surface.

OK this is NOT a thread to complain about Byrnes tools. If you want to do that, start your own thread! I am a happy and proud owner of all of Jim's tools (with the exception of the Rope Walk), and I have used some of them for more than a year now. 

My intention is for us as a community to point out areas that we think can be improved, or new tools or accessories we would like to see them stock. Here are a few off the top of my head. 
 
Byrnes table saw. 
- FENCE. Would be good if the fence was easier to remove. From memory, it requires undoing about 6 screws. For that, I have to find the correct sized Allen key and make sure I don't lose the screws after I remove them. 
- RIVING KNIFE. Most full sized saws have this as standard. Would it be possible to offer this as an accessory? 
- THIN RIPPING JIG. Would be good to offer this as an accessory. See this thread: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10585-thin-ripping-jig-for-the-byrnes-table-saw/
 
Byrnes draw plate 
- LARGER HOLES. Please offer another drawplate for sale, this time with larger holes. It would be extremely useful for pulling dowels down to size. I am not suggesting you replace the current drawplate (which is darn near perfect), but offer another drawplate with larger holes. 
 
Byrnes Disc Sander
- At the moment it is not possible to change sanding grits without destroying the stick-on sandpaper. It would help if the machined disc was interchangeable (and you offer additional metal discs as accessories) so that we can have a selection of grits handy. 

Some time ago I posted here my own additions and mods I immediately made to the saw after I bought it, and I find them useful, helpful or even necessary every time I use the saw.
 
 
It takes two screws to remove the fence, which is quick enough for me. What in the pictures may seem to be four other screws are just location pins.

A riving knife would be a great thing, but a good one that can quickly be exchanged according to the saw disk used surely would be an expensive solution. I overcame this issue by making my own zero-clearance plates which include a splitter (shown in the thread I linked to above), which works great. Making those plates/splitters involves some precision work but pays off.

For ripping I just use two push sticks, one with a notch cut out on one side of its tip so I can hold the work piece down and at the same time against the fence, and the other just plain square to shove the workpiece forward.
Edit 2: I use a "short fence" going to less than the middle of the blade, and of course the splitter.
This is a quick and easy solution which allowed me to cut dozens of literally meter-long 1mm and 2mm thin strips that turned out to vary considerably less than half a tenth of a millimetre in thickness from end to end.
It is important that the square push stick is broad enough to go at least to the blade. It also should be really square as should be the back of the workpiece too. Like this you will be able to shove your stuff straight through the blade without having to reach with a stick between the blade and the fence. For long pieces an outfeed table is essential (mine is also in the thread I linked to in the first line of this post).
 
Edit 1: link fixed

A piece of threaded rod (M12) made a better handle for me.
Exactly the right weight and length for my taste.

A piece of threaded rod (M12) made a better handle for me.
Exactly the right weight and length for my taste.

A piece of threaded rod (M12) made a better handle for me.
Exactly the right weight and length for my taste.

If it's like my Bandsaw then it's possible to beyond the "Zero" point. Easier to see on this machine but the pointer is also beyond zero and you can clearly see the angle of the blade. As with a full size Table Saw though vertical should always be checked with a square. 

 
Nice Digital fence on this one!

A piece of threaded rod (M12) made a better handle for me.
Exactly the right weight and length for my taste.

A piece of threaded rod (M12) made a better handle for me.
Exactly the right weight and length for my taste.

I thought others might like to see this.
 
On a build log someone showed a strip cutter made out of black plastic with a slot to hold an Exacto knife.  Someone else asked if they work.  This was my response.
 
Yes, it is used for cutting strips of wood from a sheet.  The idea is good but this tool is not that accurate so I made my own.  I made it longer to ride against the sheet better and I mounted the blade more securely so that it did not wobble in the holder.  I use mine all the time for soft wood like poplar.  I have cut strips as thin as .015 inch.
 
Bob
 

 

 
Someone then asked how it is used.
 
First loosen the screws with the knobs on top.  Adjust the plate on the bottom to the width of strip you want.  Place cutter on sheet with edge of strip pressed against plate.  Slide cutter along sheet.
 
Bob
 

 

 

I have the MicroLux thickness sander (it's MicroMark, by the way) and I'm perfectly happy with it. I've use it and I've used the Byrnes and both work about the same. As someone pointed out, you can't pre-set the thickness on the MicroLux, but I don't recall being able to do that with the Byrnes. For both the MicroLux and the Byrnes Machines sanders, I've had to take off a little bit of wood at a time and then measure the resulting piece.
 
The comment that the MicroLux sander only sands basswood is hogwash. I've never once thickess sanded basswood with it. As I've been milling most of my own wood these days, I use it regularly on Boxwood, Cherry, Pear, Holly and Beech. It works fine, is very heavy and feels very rugged, very sturdy.
 
The main difference between the two, in my experience, is in design. The MicroLux sander works. It's not super user friendly. The Byrnes Machines sander works. It's well designed, so it's more user friendly.
 
For instance, the Byrnes sander uses a screw to adjust the thickness and it has a large diameter thumb wheel. The Microlux model uses a hex bolt. It works, but it's not as nice and its location is a bit awkward. Plus, as I recall, on the Byrnes sander that adjustment screw is easy to reach and the fine threads on it give you more precise adjustment.
 
The vacuum hose attachment on the Byrnes sander is on top so it's out of the way. The Microlux sander put's it on the side where the wood comes out, so you have to do more to get it out of the way of your work.
 
The Byrnes sander uses standard sandpaper making it inexpensive to operate. The Microlux uses special sanding sleeves which cost a lot more, though they seem to last a long time. I haven't changed mine since I bought it, which is a good thing as the Microlux drum sander requires you to practically disassemble the whole machine to change it. The Byrnes sander is much simpler here - again a better design. Plus, on the Byrnes, you can use grits of your choice. On the Microlux, your choices are limited to the 3 available grits.
 
One thing I should add is that the Microlux thickness sander has a big heavy roller on the feed side that is designed to hold down your work as you feed it in. I found this was more of a hassle than an asset, so I removed mine. Every time a piece was almost through the sander, the think would drop with a thunk and jar the unit and the work piece so that the last bit of the work piece would come out uneven. I was much happier with the machine after I took this piece off.
 
 
Overall, the Microlux is less expensive but it's clearly not as well designed as the Byrnes product. It's still VERY useable and I have no sense that I've missed out by buying it. It's clearly not perfect, but it does its job and I use it about once a week or so. But, the Byrnes thickness sander is really not that much more money than the Microlux model unless you can get it at a good sale price from Micromark. So, you may want to pay a little more and spring for the Byrnes model.
 
 
Clare

Luthiers are quite aware of the potential hazards of wood dust, especially of toxic woods.  Health problems that arise from exposure include COPD due to inhalation of  tiny particles (tiny <2 micron dust is 'not good') and the substances within the wood that cause allergenic reactions. Allergic reactions (typically respiratory or skin irritation) may occur during the first or any subsequent exposure, and the severity can be mild or terrible.  Cocobolo and cedars are well known for this.
 
Perhaps these links might be of interest.  The first is from Bill Pentz, who is somewhat of an 'authority' about wood dust and amelioration:
 
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/
 
The second is a post of a HEPA-filtered dust collection system that I built a few weeks ago that works very well and was not very expensive.  It occupies 12 sq in (30cm) of floor space.  I've already built another one for a different area in my workshop:

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3467

Years ago as I built out my first workshop, I found Cocobola. I loved the wood. I could take a rough piece of it, and mill it down and smooth it and finish it with just a bit of wax. Very hard, nicely figured. I made all sorts of things large and small out of it.
 
On an extended trip to Europe I started developing a rash. It continued to get worse, spreading all over my body and very itchy everyday. No creams would do anything to it. When I got home I saw a specialist and he told me that since the rashes were symmetrical, I was ingesting what ever I was allergic too. What I found it to be after some experimentation was the Cocobola. I had been using a pen I made on the lathe out of the wood. Since I only polished it, the natural oils in the wood were soaking into my skin every time I used it.
 
Then I found out Cocobola is considered a sensitizer. You start out fine, but the more you breath the dust, the more sensitive you become. I had breathed a great deal of the dust and had become highly allergic to the wood. I had to have Rob come into my shop and clean it down thoroughly wiping everything down, vacuuming everything that could be accessed. I could not use any of the tools until they had been thoroughly cleaned. It was a real pain to do.
 
So you should be aware if the types of wood you are working with. For me, I can never pick up another piece of Cocobola again. If I had worn the proper gear when. I was using it, I would be fine.
 
The information on these I types of wood characteristics are widely available now via the web. Just do,a search and you will find if there are any handling things you need to be aware of when working with it.
 
Bill

Any and all dust can and does cause problems.  Fine dust of even the most benign material can cause serious health problems if breathed in over extended periods.  It is not the toxicity of the dust but the physical impact of the particles on the lung tissue that causes the damage.  A dust mask is always a good idea when sawing or sanding wood.  tkay11 has it right, dose, exposure and sensitivity are all things that must be taken into acount when evaluating toxicity.  People that worked in US cotton mills of the 19th and early 20th century suffered lung problems from breathing cotton dust.  No longer a problem here but it still is a problem in developing countries.  Cotton isn't toxic but I wouldn't want to breath the dust from it for 20 years.