Thistle17

Let me say at the outset I am not evaluating the kit or its design and manufacture. I will however record my experience of the build with these kit(s. Like all Vanguard kits I am aware of, the assembly is POB using mdf as the bulkhead material. It was easy enough to assemble the substrate and bulkhead. . At first I assembled the bulkheads with all members from 6 forward facing the bow and members 7 through 10 facing stern. Given the nature of laser "machining" finish I thought I would benefit by preserving the proper bulkhead edge when fairing. Hiowever upon installing the keel there seemed to be a bit too much intereference in mating. The solution was to orient the bulkheads all facing the bow. Residual fit problems were lessened but the fore more bow bulkhead had to be thinned to fit the keel slot. I installed the permanent bulkhead ahead of the transom and faired the hull. Prior I did brace the keel stem as shown. The support height is just shy of the sheerline. During fairing I could feel some of the bulkheads moving on the substrate so several were secured with some PVA. Also using diluted PVA on the keel-bulkhead joints loosened and were ultimately secured with a surgically placed drop of CA, The transom is an extremely delicate part and is easily separated from its substrate restraints. Even with very deklicate sanding with 220 paper to slightly taper the edge of the transom it broke away taking part of the keel vertical support. It was easily repaired and I moved on. In planking I took a very deliberate approach. However I did not "line off" to create planking bands given the dimmuitive surface area. Instead I measured and recorded the surface length of each bulkhead. That would have been more accurately done on free standing bulkheads I might add. Then taking as near an accurate measurement of a plank width I determined the number of planks at bulkhead 6. Each bulkhead forwad and aft that was measured and recorded gave me a measure of the taper required of the plank as a percentage. Using a shop made plank holding device the sheer planks were fabricated. After recording mid bulkhead points on the end of a maple block I fastened the build to the platform. I drilled out and press fitted pins to hopefully aid in holding subsequent planks down as I progress. I elevated the build so I wasn't bent over the bench. It also stabilizes the build . In a close up of the bulkheads you will note they have been painted. I am a bit unsure of this measure to ease the breakawy of bulkheads when turned over but at this point yet another cautionary measure. In placing the sheer strakes I did use CA at the bow, the stationary bulkhead and transom. In addition a small drop of CA was placed at bulkheads 4 and 8 to keep the plank starter from moving. I am planning on using PVA to edge glue subsequent planks. The plank holding jig is shown below. It is held together with 2 screws. There is a dado running down the inside faces and a spline is located so the plank protrudes at the top. I have recorded the bulkhead positions on the top surface. Before sizing, planks are dampened for the first few inches and formed on the hull. Each bulkhead ,location is marked on the plank in place. When dry the plank is removed and aligned on/in the jig. A sanding block is used to taper the plank at its correct locations based on the taper reduction calculated. Joe

I had debated entering any data that I acquire as I build 3 of these kits for a special project I have begun. After all what could I add that either hasn't been documented by others. Those of you who have gone before me know well the challenges of these kits. I would offer that their size and the nature of the parts would challenge one regardless of the skill level. I am finishing a model of the Niagara that was gifted to me by the family of a friend and fellow modelr who has left us. The model hull, masts, spars, bow sprit, all deck furniture and cannon are complete Some minor exceptions are needed as well as 3 major ones. None of the small boats have been fashioned. It has sat under a plastic cover for almost 3 1/2 years until I finally got my head around completing it to a "reasonable" end stage. I will explain. I do not have the room nor time to finish the model fully rigged. Hence I am completeing it sans the masts, spars and rigging. I have completed a case for the model, teaching myself how to work with arcrylics and I built a proper base with the expert and kind guidance of members of the Midwest Model Shipwrights. The model of the Niagara is beautifully executed. Notably missing are those life boats. I experiented with the Model Shipways lift method of completing them but was not at all satisfied with the results. The carving did not deter me but detailing at the correct scale dissuaded me. I researched a number of options and finally decided to purchase the Vanguard small boats; namely 3 cutters one 22ft cutter and 2 25 ft cutters. The plans call for 2 cutters and 1 yawl but built up size led me to this compromise selection. As I record this information I realize I have left off one more missing element. No port and starboard davits have been installed. The spare parts I have is one davit short so I am fabricating my own. More to come as I build these bioats. Joe In ensuing segments I will detail how I am going about fabricating these devilish little boats. Joe

I responded on Schooners MS thread that his steps and tips were of great value to me. I had not read your postings at the time. Your approach overlayed with his are going to save me a good deal of headache. These little boats are certainly a challenge for their size and can get one in some trouble without this acquired knowledge. Thank you. Joe

It occured to me to give one last try to see if anyone had built any of the Vanguard small boats. Just changing a few search words andIi found your detailed posting. I acquired 3 of the cutters to finish off a Niagara model I am doing as a tribute to a passed member. He never got past the hull completion. I experimented with the stacked Model Shipways small boat builds and was completely unimpressed. I am on my first cutter and I found the directions wanting. I even reached out to Vanguard and he recommended CA. I like your approach better. Your tips are of immense value and I shall keep refering to your methodology. Thank you so much. Joe

Haven't visited this portion of the site for some time Frank. Life has been a whirlwind of distractions and other ventures. I put Winchelsea away after I became frustrated with my attempts at executing a build of comensurate quality as others. I am my own worst critic. In the mean time I actually bought from a fellow MSW member a complete and brand new skeletal package of her and Chapter 1. I am going to start over. I may offer my current work to someone in our group after I advance the new one to this stage hoping to incorporate what was right and do over what was wrong. I may write an epitaph here and start a new thread. Have yet to decide. What is that saying? "If at first you do not succeed........!" Joe

Ron I haven't tuned in for some time. Life events have diverted me. Not surpirised to see your work progress with exceptional execution. You continue to amaze me with your ability to work with hand tools! Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts. Joe

Any progress Paul? Joe

I attendd a session of the Modelswrights of Niagara yesterday and was made aware of this procedure. I am about to go through this procedure on my Byrnes saw which was upgraded with the wider table top. I shared the very problems you all relate and I have a drawer full of tortured blades due to the misalignment of the fence. As I think back this all became a problem when the table top was replaced. Of course I was not aware of this procedure. I will feedback my experience for others. Joe

I am sorry somehow I did not look close enough at themachining method as I seemed to think it was a laser. So another comment is that I had some blow out on the fback side of the material from the router cutter. I had to add some "face material to that side for those that became "cheeks" of gun ports. It turned out that the .015 material thickness deficit became a non problem when compared to the drawings as I used .015 AYC. Joe

Welcome to the group 'Archie"! I too took the route of fabricating my own bulkheads and "strong back". However I chose a CNC router route. It did not go well for a number of reasons. A couple of cautions. I did not have the witness marks for the gun ports added in. I hand scribed them using the drawings. Are your bulkheads laser cribed? Secondly the drawings depict 1/4" bulkheads. The material I used was .015 thinner. Where this showed up was in the transom area. Chuck has cleverly designed the transom assembly parts so when assembled yield a well registered framework. Check your work carefully and if you go to "Stuntflers" build you will see he had to build out the last bulkheads to align correctly as they were .015 shy as well. These are just cautions that I learned the hard way. Joe

Fine model! Fine woodworking! They do work together don't they! Joe

You are a brave and determined heart! I too gave up on my first build of Winchelsea after too many compromises. I started with my own frames, strongback etc and although relatively sucessful error started to creep in and things went slowly downhill from there. I am poised to start again but your restart is impressive. I will surely follow your journey! Joe