CDR_Ret

Okay, with the Hurricane now occupying a space of honor on the shelf, it's back to Phoenix! Following the instructions, we next darken the openings for the gratings. Exciting stuff, right?
 

 
Then it's time to start applying finish planking. Yay! The process starts at the stern. Before I started gluing anything, I cut out the relevant parts and did some dry fitting. That's when I noticed that the sternpost fascia pieces are not wide enough to cover the width of the post.
 

 
I went back and read through the instructions again. Sure enough, it looks like I overlooked some tapering that needs to be done. I will check some build logs to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure I have some more chisel & sandpaper work in my immediate future.
 
Cheers!

Hello all!
new to the forum! Never built a ship; but will start a new build soon! I’m mostly an aircraft guy- here’s a 1/35 HH-60G I finished a year ago-



 
looking forward to advice and insights..plus a lot of inspiration!!
 
cheers
Pete

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Welcome from another Colorado resident!! I look forward to seeing your model and the progress you are making. Wishing you success in your model building.

Hello all, 
I just discovered this site from a newsletter put out by Rocky Mountain Shipwrights in Colorado.  I recently joined this group and many members have recommended this site. I am a first-time ship model builder, but have been building models of various types for most of my life. I chose the US Brig Syren as my first build, from Model Shipways. I looked at the description and the instruction info on the website and felt it was something I could do.  I am also a amateur woodworker, so that has helped a lot with the build. While many of the skills are new to me, I have a basic understanding of how to build things. I have actually built a small wooden rowboat in my shop.  Started this project about 2.5 years ago, and got a little sidetracked when I finally retired for good and started working in my shop everyday.  I have been back to building the model pretty consistently for the last 6 months.  Using only the model instruction sheets, I have gotten this far. I only recently discovered all these resources available.  I enjoy figuring things out for myself,  but really appreciate the info on sites like this. Looking forward to seeing and reading about other people's projects and solutions. 

Hi all, thanks for having me.
 
My name is Klas, I am 44 years old and live with my wife in Sweden, on the Baltic coast. I have recently taken up ship modelling and I am currently building the HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne from Vanguard Models. In the past I have done some plastic modelling and wargaming miniature painting.
 
As a profession I sit in front of a computer or in meetings all day. I am trained as a metal machine operator, turning and milling, and started work as a CNC operator. After a few years I learned 3D CAD and worked in the design department designing cutting tools, mostly drill bits. And since 15 years I work in the Supply Chain with more boring work, but getting paid a lot more. I miss some aspects of the work I have done in the past and I been wanting to take up a hobby where I can create something.
 
I am very interested in history, naval and otherwise, and I owned a sailing boat for a number of years. 
 
I have a pretty good home office where I can do most work, however I can't really have much machinery here. I don't have a workshop, but my father in law has one about 20min away, he has a lot of tools, small bandsaws, turning tools even a CNC mill.
 
I have a lot left to do in my current project, but I am also looking into the next build. Here I would like something in a bigger scale I think. The Syren Cutter Cheerful looks incredible and I will probably try and get hold of that. The Maris Stella HMS Speedy seems interesting too.
 
The most inspiring model I have seen is the Winchelsea so maybe this would be a goal to aspire to in a number of years. 
 
Klas

While I am procrastinating with the Salamandre, I did a couple of fixes for Liffey and Schpitzbergen, correcting the run of the deck aft on both, and replacing the boats with a slightly better placeholder models.
 

 

 

 

I think I have more or less settled on this color scheme for Phoenix:
 

 
While I was at the local Hobby Lobby to get some fresh CA glue, I decided to shop for paint for trim work. I wanted to go for the yellow ochre + red ochre look seen in the photo, and I think I may have lucked out. These two colors are a pretty close match to what I was looking for:
 

 
In fact, they are a better match than can be seen in the photo, because no matter how much fiddling I did with the camera settings on my phone, I couldn't get the image colors to match the real-life colors (imagine everything with a redder tone, if you can).
 
Anyways, I really must wrap up my Hurricane build and get back to this one.

Hey, I'm still here! 👀
I've made some fairly significant progress on the texturising, rigging and modelling this ship -- including setting up a figurehead which took me a long time! I'm still doing some final cleanup but I'm finally nearly ready for some renders.
 
I've started working in a job full time so I haven't had as much time as I used to, but I'm still doing bits on this every night.
 
I should be posting some more updates (comparatively) soon. Keep your eyes peeled!

Hello,
 
It’s time for some evaluation of this modified proxxon KT 70. As a test I made a setup to use the xy-table over its whole range with fixed steps in both x and y direction. In x it was 8.9 mm step and in y 3.1 mm. That way the whole range is covert with 15 steps. I use the scale ring to make the steps and note the DRO display values. Here you see the setup with a camera positioned to show the readings.
 

 
This is how the table is stepped from bottom-right to top-left.
 

 
I also did the inverse movement from top-left to bottom-right and again noted all displayed values.
When entering the values in a spreadsheet and plotting things you get the following results.
 


 
You can see that the curves are not ‘flat’ and that moving up and down follow a different path.
Not flat means that the pitch of the xy-table is slightly off its nominal 1 mm. In the x direction we have about 0.3 mm error after 120 mm and that can be explained with a pitch being 0.9975 mm.
For the y direction it is about the same result, a pitch of 0.9980.
 
The different paths are a result from backlash, that is ‘play’ between nut and screw. For both x and y it is about 0.1 mm.
 
I assume the DRO is correct and has no play. To be sure I also checked a small movement (8 mm) in the x direction somewhat in the middle of its range with a dial indicator. The result is shown next.
 

 
The dial indicator and the readout give almost identical values. Ok, then I trust the DRO from now on. It is convenient because it keeps track of the millimetres already moved and it eliminates the backlash error.
 
That is it for now, hope you liked it.
 
Best regards,
Kris

Hi all - I’m brand new to ship modeling, though I’ve been a hobby woodworker for about 15 years building furniture, clocks, and doing a lot of turning on the lathe.  Have also built doll houses and small scale furniture for inside.  I’ve been thinking about trying my hand at model ships for a while, having spent many years growing up in Cape Cod fishing and boating.  Looking forward to learning a lot and picking out a first project (I did see there are helpful resources here as well). Thanks, John

Micha, being an NRG member means you're providing financial support for MSW. You've only been a member of MSW for a short period of time but by the number of your post thus far you obviously find benefit in being a MSW member. For myself being a member since 2016 MSW is a major part of my life. I consider 99.99% of the MSW membership my 'family'. MSW is way too important to me, I'm happy to support MSW by being an NRG member.  
 
 Having access to the MSW database is invaluable, I dare say that if you have a question about ship modeling the answer can be found in the MSW database. The better question is, why would one not want to support MSW by becoming an NRG member.    

Just renewed last week. If I remember correctly, it will be seven years now.
I'll be honest, I feel a little bit of pride being an NRG member.
I can't begin to express what this website and organization has given me. 
Chatted with people from all over the globe. Tips and techniques I would have never thought of. 
 
Not much of today's modern life can afford me that. Seems everywhere online is filled with dishonesty.
This is my happy place. 
Good honest people. 
 
 
Tom L. 
 
 

Sorry to contradict, but regular beeswax is acid! Use Renaissance (conservators') wax, if you have to.

I would recommend checking out this thread regarding laser-cut frames, etc. Kiyoo Iizawa was actively involved in this forum a few years ago and did some beautiful work using CG modeling and laser-cut components. He was writing a manual/book to help modelers get into laser-cutting modeling, but after some attempts at collaboration, I think there was an (amicable) divergence of views on how to present the process.
 
Terry

Well, it depends what you are doing with them on a ship model ...
 
Actually, I think there are four different topics here:
 
1) how to convert a 2D-paper drawing into a CAD-drawing
2) how to loft such drawings into a self-consistent data-set that produces a fair hull, and
3) how to convert the resulting CAD-drawing into instructions for the laser-cutter that produce the expected results.
4) is the laser-cutter available suitable for the task in hand
 
As Chuck suggested, it may save a lot of time, effort and money to verify point 4 first. If the available laser-cutter is not suitable, it may be simpler to work the traditional way.
 
On the other hand, as the envisaged model is planned to be only a foot and a half long, one may get away with quite thin (ply)wood or even cardstock. The bulkheads are only needed to define the shape of the hull, if the spaces in between are filled with a softer wood, e.g. balsa. The bulkhead do not need to be structural parts. One has to adapt the building technique to the available tools, in this case the laser-cutter.
 
Some people work from sets of copies of original builders' plans, but it may be worthwhile going through steps (1) and (2) in any case, as this allows you to verify the fairing of the hull before one cuts anything. Even going only through step (1) is useful: if it turns out that a bulkhead is wrong, one can easily correct it in the 2D-CAD and print it out again. 

I have to disagree about the accuracy of 2D drawings, and restate what Terry said.
 
You can draw nice 2D frame/station drawings, but you have no way to tell if they will produce a smoothly faired hull surface. Even working from a Table of Offsets will not guarantee frames/stations for a smooth hull. I have done this several times, and when the 2D frame/station drawings are erected in 3D the resulting hull surface is often wavy.

My neighborhood library recently got this cool laser cutter, and I had the idea of maybe using it to build a frigate model a foot and a half long and with detail akin to a half block, maybe a little more.
 
I'm thinking of making the framing and ribs with Vectorworks and then using basswood to manually plank the hull and do the rest.
 
I've however never done any of this before, so I would like to hear your guy’s experiences with whether something like this Would work. I'd also love any tips for any aspect of this project, especially transcribing the Frigate's plan into CAD.

I believe there are a few kit manufacturers that have done this and sell kits with laser-cut wood for assembly. (See the "sponsors" list on the right side of the forum home page. E.g., Syren Ship Models and Vanguard Ship Models.) Syren Ship Models has a special "installment purchase" group build project for the frigate HMS Winchelsea (1764) going on at the moment. It's a beautiful model and extremely high quality. See:  HMS Winchelsea (1764) by Chuck Passaro|A plank on Bulkhead scratch ship model project|32 gun English frigate (syrenshipmodelcompany.com)
 

Syren Ship Model Company|Boxwood ship model rigging blocks|Ship Model rigging rope |turned brass cannon| Chuck Passaro
 
There are a number of forum members doing CAD modeling and publishing their progress in CAD "build logs" which you can review to get a sense of what's involved in what you are asking about. I must confess that I am a "board and tee-square" draftsman and my knowledge of the CAD technology is general and theoretical, but not practical. As do some others, I find that the manual drafting techniques which I learned long ago in school continue to serve me well for my purposes. There are many advantages to CAD drafting, particularly in terms of presentation to untrained eyes. The ability to produce a 3D rotating projection of a shape as complex as a ship's hull that is instantly understood by any viewer is an amazing feature, as is the easy replication of various modifications in the design process. For those of us who were taught to "read" draughts and thus acquired the ability to "see in three dimensions" the shapes depicted in traditional orthographic projection the advanced features of CAD are "overkill" for modeling purposes. In fact, if you are contemplating creating a 3D CAD file of a particular historic vessel, you will have to learn to read the original orthographic projections in order to translate them for loading into your database anyway. (And from what I've seen looking over the shoulders of the CAD wonks who are doing that in this forum, translating draughts into CAD can be quite a challenging task that I've decided is beyond my ability to master in the time I have left in this life!  ) 
 
To get as good an idea of what you are considering getting into, I suggest you read and follow "CDR Ret's" fascinating "build log" of his digital recreation of SS Galilee, an 1891 merchant brigantine designed by Matthew Turner beginning at:  
As for laser-cutting wooden parts for a model, I expect Chuck Passaro of Syren Ship Models knows as much about applying that technology to creating parts for ship models as anybody and he has addressed it in his many posts on this forum. I would only say that the specifics of laser-cutting technology are way above my pay grade, but I do know that the primary advantage of laser-cutting is in its ability to repetitively produce large quantities of identically shaped parts. This makes it particularly useful in the manufacturing of multiple ship model kits. On the other hand, if you are scratch-building a "one-off" model, getting out your shaped parts is faster and probably a lot more enjoyable doing it the old-fashioned way than spending hours and hours programming a laser-cutter to then burn the parts according to your data, after which you will have to sand the char off all the edges!  
 
As for basswood, I expect as you research your options based on the data here in this forum, you will conclude that it is not a prudent choice of species for the purpose you intend. While it's frequently used in lower- and middle-quality range model kits, and as a soft wood it is easily worked, it is really only suitable for painted finishes and presents finishing challenges even then. It is not suitable for fine carving work which requires a fine-grained hard wood such as box or apple, nor for planking that will be finished "bright" (showing the wood's natural color.) Given the sort of model you are interested in building, I expect you will conclude upon further analysis that there are other wood species that are more easily worked, stronger, and, if you intend to finish any of it bright, far more attractive than basswood. Think of it this way: basswood is like the wood 2X4 dimensioned construction lumber is made of and what you are contemplating building is a Steinway piano.  (Don't let the cost of expensive finish wood species scare you off. A ship model requires so little of it that building with cheap wood is a foolish economy in the end.) 
 
I'm not trying to scare you off at all. I just want to give you what I hope is some direction for finding out what you will probably need to know to get where you want to go. There is always a tendency for newer modelers to "bite off more than they can chew" and there are some significant learning curves to be conquered before anyone can accomplish the incredible level of workmanship that can be seen from what some of the masters of the craft post in this forum. Very few of us will ever achieve such levels of artistic accomplishment, but we all can certainly try. The trick is not to be too hard on ourselves as we journey towards becoming better and better at it nor to discourage ourselves by unreasonable comparisons with prodigies. The greatest enjoyment in modeling ships is simply in the doing of the thing. 
 
 
 
 

IMHO, going directly from existing drawings to code that drives a 2D laser cutter is risky when cutting out frames or bulkheads. I have no experience with the quality of plans from the big national museums and other credible sources, but when I manually compared the body and halfbreadth plans of my 1891 brigantine project, it was an exercise in frustration. Heights and breadths of station and waterline intersections did not agree among the three views. The point I am trying to make is that there is no guarantee that using existing plans (especially if they are old, original drafts) will drive a laser cutter that will result in a smooth, fair, hull surface without a lot of extra work.
 
The above observation was the reason I went to CG drafting in the first place. After nearly a decade of periodic frustration, trying different methods and different copies of plans from the Smithsonian and other museum/library archives, I found that using the DELFTship Free naval architecture software was pretty much ideal for fairing out the hull lines because it had the features needed to visualize the shape of the hull, remove low and high spots, and compare the resulting lines to the original drawings. The bottom line here is that obtaining a set of working plans that will actually be fair and eyepleasing in the real world won't necessarily yield the same set of station lines, waterlines, and buttock lines as in the original set of plans you obtained. It is up to you how far you are willing to deviate from the original drawings. There are a number of MSW members who have posted their projects using DELFTship Free, including my own.

Comparison of the final modeled stations (green) in DELFTship Free compared to the original G.C. Berger drawing stations. Waterlines (blue) were included to ensure the correct vertical scale.
To understand the genesis of these lines, please refer to the Galilee research log in my signature.
(High-resolution plans obtained from the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Library; G.C. Berger, Pacific Marine Research Society; Date and provenance unknown.)
 
Once you have what appears to be a valid set of lines to work with, then you can start thinking about what laser setup to use for cutting out your parts. Remember to cut to the outside-most of the front and back curves for each frame or bulkhead.
 
Terry

IMHO, going directly from existing drawings to code that drives a 2D laser cutter is risky when cutting out frames or bulkheads. I have no experience with the quality of plans from the big national museums and other credible sources, but when I manually compared the body and halfbreadth plans of my 1891 brigantine project, it was an exercise in frustration. Heights and breadths of station and waterline intersections did not agree among the three views. The point I am trying to make is that there is no guarantee that using existing plans (especially if they are old, original drafts) will drive a laser cutter that will result in a smooth, fair, hull surface without a lot of extra work.
 
The above observation was the reason I went to CG drafting in the first place. After nearly a decade of periodic frustration, trying different methods and different copies of plans from the Smithsonian and other museum/library archives, I found that using the DELFTship Free naval architecture software was pretty much ideal for fairing out the hull lines because it had the features needed to visualize the shape of the hull, remove low and high spots, and compare the resulting lines to the original drawings. The bottom line here is that obtaining a set of working plans that will actually be fair and eyepleasing in the real world won't necessarily yield the same set of station lines, waterlines, and buttock lines as in the original set of plans you obtained. It is up to you how far you are willing to deviate from the original drawings. There are a number of MSW members who have posted their projects using DELFTship Free, including my own.

Comparison of the final modeled stations (green) in DELFTship Free compared to the original G.C. Berger drawing stations. Waterlines (blue) were included to ensure the correct vertical scale.
To understand the genesis of these lines, please refer to the Galilee research log in my signature.
(High-resolution plans obtained from the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Library; G.C. Berger, Pacific Marine Research Society; Date and provenance unknown.)
 
Once you have what appears to be a valid set of lines to work with, then you can start thinking about what laser setup to use for cutting out your parts. Remember to cut to the outside-most of the front and back curves for each frame or bulkhead.
 
Terry

Thank you Brother! Well, it is off the beaten path, but welcome to the thread....
 
So far everything is going well, Doc is happy, Last scan showed no tumors and in 10 days I start another course of chemo... Prophylactic in nature to keep it from coming back since this type of cancer never goes away and could show up anywhere at any time... Year and a half in and I'm doing well they tell me, almost a third of the way to beating the average life expectancy of this... (5 years) God willing is all I can say....
 
I'll keep plugging away at something, like the title says keeping my head in the game....

My doc and surgeons have said that basically.... keep going and don't stop is the best mental and emotional health thing we can do.  The body many times follows along.