Cathead

Mark, I know diddly about ironclads but from the below it seems that a steam powered metal pump could have been in operation in 1860? Interesting history on pumps. 
 
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/history-pumps-through-years
 
1848 In Seneca Falls, N.Y., Seabury S. Gould purchases the interests of Edward Mynderse and H.C. Silsby in Downs, Mynderse & Co., forming Downs & Co., later known as Goulds Manufacturing Company.
1849 Goulds casts and assembles the world's first all-metal pump.

Kurt, sorry, I thought the slurry of ash and water was 'pumped' overboard via steam pressure, i.e. pump/pumped.  I agree about clinker size but being jagged edged I can foresee clinkers lodging together to form a jam. Yeah, it's been awhile since dad heated our house with coal. Another time, another world. 

The ash was scraped and swept into the tubes and gravity took over.  No pumps.  They were not tiny so clinkers probably were no problem.  I barely remember clinkers because we switched from coal to gas when I was pretty darn young but what I remember was they were not big.

An ash well mixing ash with water to pump overboard was ingenious but how did it managed to pump clinkers overboard as well? Seems like the two would have to have separated which begs the question, how were the clinkers removed? 

Kurt,
Regarding your second message on wheelbarrows or buckets for ash and slag removal, there is no way to get a loaded wheelbarrow out of the fireproof. There is no room in the fireroom for a stair case on any wall and the only entry/exit is via one or two vertical iron wall mounted escape ladders in the forward  corners. These would be very difficult to climb with a heavy bucket load in one hand. (See my recent photos of the fire room on this Forum.) Our latest theory is a manual winch on the Hurricane deck above the center of the fireroom which could be used to hoist a heavy bucket of ash straight up thru a ceiling hatch in the Hurricane deck.. However, to date, we haven't  found any evidence of such a hatch.
 
JOHNHOWARD

Kurt,
 
Thanks for the input.
Did you ever see a date associated with your "Fig. 60" drawing which shows an "Ash Well"extending thru the bottom of the hull and infers that they had controls to increase pressure to expel the ash and slag automatically. If this system was available in 1861, it could very well be the solution we were looking for. However the fireboxes and ash pits on the City Class Ironclads seem to simply have had doors that open onto the fire room floor so the firemen can rake the residue onto the fire room floor where they would try to hose it down and dispose it overboard- a really messy and dangerous job!
Regardless, I think this is a possibility worth looking into, so I will check the cyclopediums for a date and find out if a US patent was issued for it around 1860. This is also different from the later, post Civil War, successful systems for ash removal, that we did find, which expelled it upwards over the side by air pressure rather than down against the water pressure. This system would also have to have a fool-proof one-way valve to prevent river water entering the hull and extinguishing the firebox fires or possibly sinking the ironclad.
 
JOHNHOWARD

Kurt, given that the boiler was located in the hold, below the waterline and pretty much on the keel of these boats, wouldn't having the ash well cause a flooding problem?  Seems like that would be no different than having a hole in the bottom. But, that gives me another theory. What if they had some sort of setup like a pipe that extended above the waterline, say like an opening at the level of the Gun Deck that they could shovel the ash and slag into. It could have been close to the Ash pit, or next to the bulkheads that ran along the outboard keels. This would/could have been in the area that was lost during salvage as well and the reason there is no documentation for it. Just a thought, I could just be trying to invent things.
 
-Brian

The two drawings below show how ash and slag was disposed of on riverboats of the era and why wouldn't they have followed what I believe was a routine way of handling the hot ash, etc.  The dumping of the hot ash, slag overboard was done w/o wheelbarrows or buckets.
 
I have permission from Alan Bates prior to his death to use his copyrighted information for educational purposes.
Fig 60 is from his Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopedium.  The other drawing is from his Western Rivers Engine Room Cyclopedium.
 

Johnhoward,
 
I wanted to thank you again for speaking with me the other day. I apologize for taking up so much of you time, but I took a great deal of very useful information away from our conversation.
 
 
One theory that I had on the removal of the slag, ash and coals could have been a bucket brigade. The fire men could have simply filled the buckets up from the fireboxes, hoisted them up the ladders, and the crew could have passed them across the Gun Deck and deposited the contents in the river through one of the gun ports. They could have done this on both sides for more efficiency.  Just a thought.
 
 
As for the steel floor, was this just placed in front of the fire boxes? From what I have been able to determine, from the HSR pg. 38 (which could be wrong) the fire box was lined with brick. The only other mention of this area that I was able to locate was in Ed Bearss' book Hardluck Ironclad where they describe in the initial plans "Beneath the boilers would be a fire box, with it's bed lined with fire brick, and enclosed in good sheet iron". Neither of these references go into great detail as to how this was actually constructed.
 
This area was surely lost during recovery efforts, since the entire section collapsed when they brought it up as shown in the sad picture below. None of the other info that I have been able to find mentions anything of the boiler floor construction, but it would seem that they would have recovered something, steel or brick, and had it either on display or mentioned in the list of artifacts. However, I was thinking that could they be describing that the floor was lined with brick then a layer of sheet iron placed on top of the brick? The brick would insulate the wooden hull from the heat of the coal fire and the steel would give a smooth surface for cleaning out the fire box. Is this a safe assumption? Either way, I am surprised at the lack of info on this particular area.
 

 
-Brian
 

As a continuation of some of our missing but interesting Forum entries between 2015 and 2017, we added counterbalanced, manually opened doors for access to the coal bins from the Fireroom floor, based generally on the designs for similar Civil War era steamboats and shore coal storage bunkers. Initially we were assuming transport of loose coal using wheel-barrows and later added bagged "Steamboat sized" coal which was easier to load & stack in the coal bunkers and then either manually or "wheel-barrowed" into the fireroom. Unfortunately, as the model assembly continued and we added the Hurricane Deck, et al. much of this detail is hidden except by using a bore-scope type instrument, but it was fun to build and we still have some surviving photographs of our build.
 
JOHNHOWARD

In yet another diversion, I started the ships' boats. Like the rounded portion of the water closets, these are shaped from solid wood assemblies made by gluing strips together, then carved/sanded to finish. Fun! I like having these little side projects to do while sorting out larger issues. First one is not perfect, but will do.
 

I'll post pictures when I get it figured out.  I think I will end up having a wider plank shear amidship than is proper, and then taper it down to 1/16" square toward both the bow and the stern as the plans indicate.  Hopefully, I'll be able to hide the mistake among all the other items placed on the outer hull, chainplates, rigging etc.
 

Some interesting progress on the Fish. After my error described in the last post, I made 32, 18 mm circumference wire loops and fitted them to 32 of the largest deadeyes, pushing the wire into the channel in the deadeyes and leaving a rectangular section at one end to insert blackened brass strip that will become the chain plate. Actually, I probably made more like 60 of the loops, as, in the process of fitting the loops around the deadeyes and forming the attachment point, I think I snapped one for every one that was successfully manufactured. Nevertheless, they are made and ready to start installation.
 
I had cut the chains according to the patterns on the plans so that the chainplates will align with the shrouds. This meant that each plate would have to be of a different length in order to ensure that the bottoms of the preventers would run (more or less) along the same line. So, I measured the distance between the lower chains and the top of the preventer off the plans and put a piece of Tamiya tape on the hull so that the top of the tape is where I wanted to upper bolt on the preventer to end.
 
(it's about 6 mm). I then took a deadeye with the brass strip attached, fitted it to the correct pair of cutouts on the chains, and carefully bent the brass strip so that the it would hit the hull at the top of the tape. I then put the bent deadeye/chainplate into a jig to hold it in place, and carefully drilled two holes 4 mm apart. (the lines are 4 mm).

 
I did this for the 6 chainplates the hold the shrouds (in this case for the port side main mast) and marked them with tape so I'd know which is which. Next I removed the tape and used CA glue to attach the 6 chainplates to the chains, but didn't glue where they attach to the hull.
 

 
From there, I glued a pre-painted black strip over the two chains, since the plates are not on the outer edge of the chains, but rather pass through. I only covered the shroud plates at this time, as I will need to do something similar for the backstays.
 

 
Finally, I used a pin vise to drill holes in the hull for the bolts, and used small nails dipped in CA to secure them in place.
 

 
It's not perfect, but this is the 'non-display' side and I suspect I will get better as I go. It is definitely better than I did with the Niagara, and I think that the concept is generally sound. Here is another view:
 

 
I also built up the core of the lower mizzen mast. It is solid, not built, but I turned it more or less the same way I did the other masts because it struck me as easier to wind up with a nice square core where the top will live rather than trying to cut out a square from round stock. Anyway, I think it looks nice.
 

 
One question. I've been detailing and painting the ship's boats, and I was wondering about how standardized the loadings of them would have been. The plans say to set all three boats on the deckhouse with the boat bows facing forward. They would seem to 'pack' better, with more room on the the roof of the deckhouse if the cutter and the Captain's gig had their bows facing aft and the longboat had its bow facing forward. One of the boats needs a bit of touch up before I mount it, but I would be curious if anyone has any thoughts here.
 

 
As always, thanks for looking in and the encouragement!
 
Regards,
George K

More progress...
Added the remaining deck furniture and the shrouds have started. I'm tying the ratlines by hand. They just look so much better that way. The foremast yards have been done as well but are not shown... 
Slowly but surely she's coming along...

I don't feel that strongly about it, I would potentially buy sails in the future, or other accoutrements that I needed, but I also like reusing and repurposing items instead of consuming when I do not need to. No if I was doing this for sale say or as some sort of profession I may want to be a little bit more discerning, but it's really just for fun. I do appreciate that link and I believe other people will certainly appreciate it. The only real hard stance I have on anything,  is that there is not only one way to do something lol!! 

Well I agree with you of course! I was testing a method Cathead uses with bond paper- a considerably lighter material and with considerably better results lol! I just wanted to see how it would work with fabric, the fabric that I'm using is far too thick for this application but some of the other fabrics would work fairly well for it I believe.

Of course you could take the top plank off, make a new, slightly wider one for each side and do it all over again.
 
But why?  Who's going to look to see how much overlap there is? Apart from anything else, it's invisible - the only way you can check is to measure the distance from the top to the bottom of the top plank both inside and outside and compare the two.
 
The model is looking good. You're doing fine.
 
Steven

I have finally got the top 2 planks installed on both sides of the ship. It turned out better than I thought. The only thing is, there is not much overlap on the top plank to the bottom plank in places. Hopefully this will not be a problem.
 

Parts look great so far. Will be fun to watch a master at work on such a high-end kit.

Part III: Adding reef points
 
Reef points add a lot of visual interest to sails, and they're easy to add in the paper-sail method.
 

The reef bands were glued on in Part I. Where to place the reef points is something of an uncertain topic; I found references for a variety of options, including one point on each seam, one point within each panel, and two points within each panel. I chose to use the first approach. Because the paper layers were extra thick here, due to the seam and reef bands, I used a small drill bit to open up a hole rather than trying to drive a needle through.
 
For the reef points, I cut a series of rigging rope a bit longer than I needed. I wanted my reef points 2 scale feet long, so I cut the rope 5' long to allow for trimming, then used a deadeye/block threader to run each line through the sail. The threader creates a strong crimp in the line, so I tried to center each line in the threader before pulling it back through; the crimp then becomes a natural reference point holding the line in place where it passes through the sail.
 

When all the lines for a given band were threaded, I clamped a piece of wood across the sail 2 scale feet below the reef band as a reference marker. You can get the length right here in two ways: either trim each line to the right length relative to the crimp, or don't worry about the crimp and pull each one back through the sail until only 2' are left on the side you're working on. I then used a fine brush to gently apply a bit of glue to a line, then pressed it into place on the sail with its tip against the wood. You only have to hold the line in place for maybe 10-15 seconds for the glue to take hold, before moving on to the next one. I like to get glue from the tip to about 2/3 to the sail, not all the way to the sail. This means the line naturally bows out a bit where it comes out of the sail, giving it some 3D texture. Don't overdo the glue or you'll get weird stains on the paper. Also, don't worry about trying to get each line perfectly straight; they're going to want to curve this way and that, and buckle a bit, and that's exactly what you want because that really makes them look like loose lines dangling down. You want just enough glue to hold them relatively flat so they look like gravity is working. If you glue them too flat or perfect, they'll look glued on and artificial.
 

Once one side is done, it looks something like the image above. Then you just turn the sail over, clamp the wood at 2' again, trim the remaining lines to length, and glue them in the same way.
 

If there is more than one reef band, do the upper one first, since you're overall working on the lower side. Above, you see the same process being repeated for a lower line of reef points.
 

And here are the two completed lines of reef points. They have a nice randomness that looks like loosely dangling lines. Note that, once again, I slightly messed up this demonstration by not cutting the upper line of reef points quite evenly (they're too short on the left). It figures that my demonstration sail would be the sloppiest of any I've made so far, but I hope the idea comes across. And, as above, this sort of things fades away when the sail is placed in the full context of a rigged model.
 
I'm quite happy with this method. I've now made all six of the sails for my topsail schooner this way and feel that they have a strong visual interest and a realistic (if not perfectly accurate) appearance. Moreover, the method uses cheap material that's easy to work with, and requires no special skills other than some patience and care when handling glued paper. It's easy to test on random scraps first before trying a full sail, and it's easy to customize. For example, you could skip the panels and just use a full sheet of paper, or skip the boltropes, and still use the rest of the approach to have a nice sail that holds it shape and can even be shaped to hold a curve. I hope others find some or all of this interesting and useful as a different way to produce interesting sails for nautical models. Thanks for reading.

Part II: Adding boltropes
 
My understanding is that boltropes are hard to get right in scale. The ropes themselves are pretty small at most common model scales, and the stitches that hold them on would be essentially invisible, certainly at this project's 1:64 scale. However, leaving them off removes clear visual interest and makes it difficult to attach lines to the sails properly. One approach in the paper-sail method would be to bury a fine line within the folded-over edging; this is the method I used on my longboat. Glue one side of the edging down, then spread glue on the rest, stretch a thin line along the seam, and fold the edging over. You now have a boltrope that's hidden from sight, but strengthens the sail and can be carefully looped at each corner to provide the proper attachment point (and it's easy to form cringles anywhere just by tugging it out slightly from the stitching). However, for my current project, I wanted to include the visual interest of stitched boltropes even if they were out of scale. I know my model isn't perfectly accurate, and I'd rather it be a visually interesting representation of a real ship. So here's how I added them.

First, I punched holes for the stitching all the way around the sail, having measured and marked straight lines of evenly-spaced points. Then I laid out my boltrope and stitched it into place with a running stitch (I used basic white sewing thread). This can be done two ways: either with a needle (as shown above) or with a deadeye/block threader like this one from Model Expo (which I love) [edit as of 2022: these are no longer sold by Model Expo but here's an example of an equivalent product from Joann Fabrics]. The former is a lot faster, but the needle's eye tends to make wider holes. The threader takes long, but leaves smaller holes that aren't as visible. The sail in this demonstration used a needle throughout, as I wanted to try it. Another benefit of pastel coloring occurs here: a bit of pastel rubs off on all the lines, inherently coloring them to match the sail.
 

I stitched the boltrope on loosely all the way around, making extra stitches at each corner to create a proper loop. There will be two loose ends of the boltrope meeting at the first/final corner; we'll deal with that soon. Just leave a few inches extra when you start. Once the loose stitching is done, I used a fine tweezer to work along the stitch, pulling out all the slack. The boltrope sits naturally on one side of the sail; technically this is accurate, but rather out of scale. The true-scale boltrope would look like it was right along the sail's edge even if slightly to one side. However, once you get all the stitching really tight, you can actually use your fingers to massage the boltrope up almost to the edge of the sail, where it looks about as right as you can get. Once each corner's loop and stitching is tight and as I want it, I applied a small drop of CA glue to the stitching binding the loop in place, ensuring that it's not going anywhere.

Now for the final corner. When the boltrope is stretched tight in all directions, cut it short at both ends and weave each end back into the stitching, overlapping itself a little. Then you can nip it off carefully near the corner, allowing for one final loop, and pull the stitching tight to hold it in place. Another small application of CA glue holds this in place.
 

This is actually a very sloppy final corner; the worse one I've done so far. I cut the upward-running rope too short, so that my joint falls down the side of the sail. I meant it to fit right in under the loop, where the extra stitching hides it. Still, it's barely noticeable from more than a few inches away.
 
This approach gives you out-of-scale, but functional and very interesting, boltropes. Personally I think they look really nice in the context of the model overall (see any of the overview photos). They demonstrate to any viewer how this part of the ship would work, and they give the sail extra texture. Again, I like that this approach demonstrates the reality of the sail rather than perfectly simulating it. Your approach, and priorities, may vary.
 
In the next post, I'll attach reef points and show the completed sail.

I've developed a method for making paneled sails from paper that works nicely to simulate the three-dimensional texture of a sail. It seems to offer a lot of visual interest, more so than a flat sail, and the procedure is pretty manageable. I like paper sails for several reasons: they hold their shape better than cloth sails (including a natural bellied curve), they have a nice texture (especially when colored by pastels), and there's no need for complicated or careful sewing. In this topic I'll walk through the method I worked out so far, starting with making the panels themselves. I haven't seen much else about paper sails on MSW, so hopefully this is of interest to some folks.
 
I first tried paper sails on my 18th century longboat build and was quite happy with the result. In that case, I just used a flat sheet of paper and drew on the seams and stitches. It worked, but was too flat. For my current build of a US Revenue Cutter, I decided to try making sails the prototypical way, assembling them from long panels of material joined at the edges. I first asked for guidance in another sail-making thread, which produced a lot of good ideas and guidance. This guide to sail-making from the Historic Naval Ships Association was a particularly useful suggestion, as it's chock full of detailed diagrams for the arrangement of panels and the overall design of sails for different craft. Following these guides, I made a few sails and was very pleased, so I finally put in the time to document each step of the process for the foresail of my revenue cutter. Here's what these sails look like on that model:
 

 
Cutting & Assembling Panels

I used bond paper, which is heavier and more textured than regular printer paper. This is commonly used for printing theses; my supply came from leftovers of Mrs. Cathead's graduate thesis. Beware of watermarks in bond paper; you don't want your sail advertising a paper company when you shine a light on it! As shown above, I mark a sheet of bond paper in scale 2' strips, then cut the strips on a small paper-cutter. Using a dedicated fine brush, I run a narrow strip of basic wood glue along the edge of each strip, then lay it out on the edge of a neighbor strip. A glue stick might work too, but I've been fine using this method. Repeating this process produces a nice 3D-textured shape from which you can cut the final sail pattern. Make sure you pay attention to the direction in which you lay out the strips; I did one of my sails backward (so that the seams ran counter to the other sails) and had to start over because it looked funny. Above, you can already see how the overlapped panels create more visual interest than a plain, smooth sail.

Next, I cut and attach any corner reinforcement panels. Then I cut thinner strips for the edging of the sails, and fold them in half. Then I brush glue along the inner surface of each one, and carefully fold it in place along the sail's edges. There are several ways to do this: you can brush 1/2 of the strip, glue it on, then brush on the other 1/2 and fold it over; or you can brush the whole inner surface at once. Although the former approach sounds better in theory, I've found that the moisture in the glue causes the paper to buckle, so that if you do the 1/2 approach, the strip bends out of true and is really hard to align on the sail's edge. If you glue the whole thing, it stays straight and is easier to handle. Incidentally, the same buckling-when-wet property works to your advantage in the sail overall; as the moisture dries between the panels, the sail inevitably takes on a bit of a curve, which nearly perfectly mimics the gently belly of a sail with wind in it. I also cut any reef-point strips and attach these.

Once the sail is fully assembled, I color it with artist's pastels. You can use your finger or a cotton swab to gently rub on color; the paper takes up the color wonderfully, and it really brings out the texture of the bond paper. The 3D nature of the assembly helps, too, as the pastel powder naturally collects a bit along seams and highlights the structural elements of the sail. You can use a mix of colors to get just the appearance you want. One important warning: don't rub too hard, and hold the sail flat. A downside of paper vs. cloth is that paper creases; if you rub too hard or otherwise force the paper to bend or kink, you'll never get that feature out again. Some folks may want to use some kind of fixative on the color, but I've never bothered; the bond paper holds pastel really well on its own. Just be careful about handling the sail with fingers coated in pastel; you don't want to leave a dark fingerprint smudge somewhere.
 
That's the first stage. You could stop here for a basic version, but I went ahead and added boltropes and reef points, which I'll cover in the next few posts.
 
 
 

Beautiful, and thanks for the detailed instructions from the beginning. Helps folks like me learn.

Fair point, but in practice it depends on just how precise the modeler is trying to be. And for those of us who don't like being around the smell of things like varnish and CA more than we can help it, a threader is a far more benign and time-efficient method. I've also found that carefully placing just the smallest tip of rope into the threader makes it easier to thread holes that are closer in diameter to the rope, rather than trying to pull a full 2x diameter length through.

Thanks for catching that! It does look like ME stopped selling the basic ones, and a lighted one seems rather wasteful. I updated that post to include a link to an equivalent product from Joann Fabrics:
 

 
I've definitely used these with blocks to great success.