dafi

Monday April 30th, 2012
  Hare some really "visible" news about one of the ship boat . . these news required some time to be achieved mainly due to the long time intervals waiting for the paint to dry. I added the rudder, the tiller and also some false pintles and gudgeons.
I have then mounted the oarlocks and now I'm trying to build the oars . . I'm using for them some components taken directly from the kitchen . . Cheers, Jack.
 
01 P1080155R.jpg

02 P1080159R.jpg

03 P1080161R.jpg

 

After a hint I shortend the lead a tad and it now looks like this :-)









Enjoy, Daniel

Thank you Dirk, Kats, Mark, Popeye, Paul, Jan and "Bones" :-) :-) :-)
 
I am already wondering, but nobody dares asking about the title of the thread  ;-)
 
... okokok, before I have to wait too long: dafi, what strange thread title you have ?!?
 
Once upon a time, the shout from the channels was to be heard "By the Deep 17" meaning a little more than 17 fathoms of water were measured, roundabout 30 meters.
 
The line used was  ca. 20 to 25 fathoms long (about 36 to 45 meters) and had marks indicating the depth measured. So the shout "By the Mark XX" meant that it was exactely on the mark and "By the Deep XX" meant it to be above the mark. The marks were at  2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 und 20 fathoms (after Nares) and had :
2 fathoms leather with 2 stripes, 3 fathoms leather with 3 stripes, 5 fathoms white, 7 fathoms red, 10 fathoms leather with hole 13 fathoms blue, 15 fathoms white, 17 fathoms red und 20 fathoms two knots.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sounding_line
 
 
So hastily made the 20 fathom line, fitted marks and lead ...
 

 
... and the sound of the falling lead could be heard  :-)
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
"By the Deep ..."
 
XXXDAn

And more tempting as the 1803 chain irons are the 1765 ones: same length but two pieces more!

Testing the lengths, carefully remembering that the outer ones are longer.



... homeopathic doses of solder ...



... degreased the wire, first soldering the single rings, then joining them on the central part, the flux with the solder embedded, small touch with the hot iron ...



... and the same game with the dead eye and the triple pack ...



... adjusting over the edge of a blade ...



... and comparison: bottom as cut, then solderd and on top adjusted. Inside length 4 mm :-)



A small jack done for thinning the deadeyes ...



... and painting them with casein paint to give a better to scale wood appearance than the original wood ...



... put on place ...



... made the batten to cover the channels ...



... and painted and rusted.





And here the comparison :-)



Cheers, Daniel

Just realised, that one part of the basic research was missing here ...
 
 
I was researching more about the aging of ships. Unsually we tend to display the ships in a freshly build and painted state. Some bold versions show the ships in quite "wrecked" appearances. But I do believe, that most of their life, the ships were somewhere in between.   This made me have a closer look. I chose the following 3 ships, as I knew, that there is quite good documentation in the web.   First the Neptune in Genove (Google pictures: Neptune/ship/genova), light wooden hull http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jarmi7d/5044918333/ http://www.flickriver.com/photos/peer_gynt/7655543406/ http://www.wanderingoverland.com/?p=855 http://photo.remgo.com/galeone-neptune/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/peer_gynt/8033111211/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genova-Porto_antico-DSCF7741.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genova-Porto_antico-DSCF7743.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(galleon)   Funny to compare the freshly painted version with the neglected one. Nice to see the better condition in protected areas like underneath the channels. Exposed areas like underneath the cathead look much more tattered. Was this also on seagoing ships that extreme or is this more of a harboring effect? But also ships spent long times in harbor do to waiting, winter sleep or being in ordinary.     And the Gotheburg (Google: Gotheburg, ship), dark wooden hull http://www.flickr.com/photos/maskofchina/311861497/ http://www.lemback.com/the-swedish-ship-gotheborg/ http://viktordonovan.blogspot.de/2011/07/replica-1745-sailing-ship-in-gothenburg.html http://www.lifeinnorway.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/goteborg13.png http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/62/8002362/3530663266666630.jpg   By the dark hull, the effects are not as visible like on the neptune. Funny to see the fresh scratch marks on the whales in some of the pictures   Then theHMS Surprise (Google: surprise, rose, san diego), painted hull http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#view=photo&position=185&with_photo_id=13424720&order=date_desc&user=2074768 http://www.flickr.com/photos/arejay/165878016/ http://photos.lomara.org/index.php/camera/sandiego/100_0825 http://www.flickr.com/photos/seaveyfamily/215130447/lightbox/ HMSSurpriseQtrbow800.jpg and my favorites: http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9071.jpg http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9072.jpg   Also here by the degradation of the paint, one can exactly tell which year the picture was taken ;-) The difference in between the fresh and the tattered is amazing. Nice to see bleaching, rust, chipped color, algae on the waterline, patches and so     Also do not forget: Ships were build over some period, where the wood was alraedy exposed. So even a brand new ship usually was unlikely to show fresh wood in larger areas. But therefor repaired areas would stick out. On the other side I have never seen the patchwork on deckplanks like often shown in plastic models.   Amicalement, Daniel

Hi Gang,
 
After a hiatus due to my wife and I having twins, she's dusted off and I'm hoping to recommence this build.  I've attached some not so great photos from my iphone - the idea here is just to get a log started and motivate me to get back in the shipyard - for at least a few hours per week.  
 
This build was started back in November of 2009 using Chucks plans that later were used in the Model Expo kit.  The woods used were swiss pear from Hobby Mill for almost exclusively with the exception of boxwood for the decks and a little bit of ebony for the false keel and checkerboard flooring in the great cabin.  Im a big fan of Fiebings dyed swiss pear and used this method for all black areas with the exceptions I just mentioned.  I used three finishes, pure tung oil for the hull, Watcos Danish Oil for the deck fittings and beams, and diluted sanding sealer for the deck.  
 
My goal is to at least get the 6 lb guns rigged and installed along with the ships wheel hopefully by the end of the month so i can begin the headrails this summer if the twins cooperate....
 
Thats it for now - by the way the photo posts looks a bit different than the old Modelship World - any tips on the best size to upload so they look more standard/fill the screen ?
Chris

Rob, I want to specify...
The photo over brought by you shows the moment of renewal of foreship...
Cylinder that we see - not exactly bowsprit, and "working" his temporal imitation.
In this place a bowsprit passes between knighthead.Interval under a bowsprit between knighthead mortgage details from a tree.
 

 
What this construction did not break a secret during other works, of preceding to setting of bowsprit, instead of bowsprit put a cylinder equal to the bowsprit on a diameter.
And at the end of works set the real bowsprit.
 

Rob, this simply unique photo !
It that I search already 3 months !
On a photo we see nasal part of upper deck ahead beakhead bulkhead, thus such, as she was exactly in 1805 - at one level with a basic deck.
A cylinder is tail part of new metallic bowsprit(from a pipe)...
 

Erik. I looked at your build. Yes, I see where you are headed. If not too late would suggest you double the lights... have each on a different circuit so you can have a backup. At least I would do something like that now. 
Konstantin - thank you. Yes, you are right. The decks of the two ships may very well be have been different wood. Am thinking it comes down to what Erik suggests that it is personal preference. 
Progress has been slow, what has it been two weeks. I finally finished drilling the holes for the dummy cannons. All done. Messed up one on the starboard side but it will glue into place alright. The cannons also cut the light from the LED in the gun ports. They look alright. Will put them back in the tray and go to copper tiles. Will be reading about how to blacken the cannons later. 
Here is my Victory with dummy cannons drilled. Won't see this for a while. Will cover the sides now with plastic and tape. 
It's a long weekend here in Canada: -- Victoria day weekend. (Yep, named after Queen Victoria who was the first monarch of the Canadian confederation (1867) - For those who are not aware Canada has a constitutional monarchy and our current Queen is Queen Elizabeth the Second). 
 
Last weekend of riding for this season. Will be out in the mountains.
Hope you enjoy the humour in the photo.

Need advice, when coming to the placing of the grenades in lower deck all I found looked more like cannon balls. Found some plastic beads 11/0 at a Wal-Mart but need some honest opinions, I have no ego so if more experienced modelers say it does not look right I will tear it out and redo before I proceed further.
They were to shiny and I brushed with a flat clear acrylic.

Also researched plank bending tools on this site. I had used a soldering iron on my armed launch and found it tedious but did not want to spend thr money for commercial plank benders. I cannot remeber the builders name but he used a tin can and tea candles. I tried it this date and was amazed. Bent 6 planks in less then 2 or 3 minutes. Tried wet and dry wood, wet seems to be faster.
 
To the point of lying in the gunports and start to plank, had stained decks which need 1 more sanding.

Thank you Aldo, Andy, Popeye, Chris and all the others, very appreciated :-)
 
So the next quantum leap, means lot of work for shortest distance possible ;-)
 
Next were the gunport lid topping lifts. A blackened 0,3 mm copper wire wound around a 1 mm needle and cut into rings.
 

 
For the next steps I skipped the tweezers and used fine pliers from the electro department, thus reducing the free flights of the parts enormously !
 
After some tests I did like follow: As the thread was to thin to do a real splice, I held the ring with the pliers ...
 

 
... some CA in the U-turn of the tread and twisted counter clockwise ...
 

 
.. to get a well enough splice imitation.
 
Then positiond the ring, hooked in ...
 

 
... closed with the pliers ...
 

 
... and the lift is in place :-)
 
 
 
The original idea was to imitate the small tube that enters the hull with diluted PVA but now I wanted to try something more tricky.
 
Some time ago I already presented the trick, that heated and pulled sprue keeps the proportion of its section. So I prepared a 4 mm sprue by drilling a center hole of 2 mm, fixed toothpicks on its ends ...
 

 
... and slowly heated it up and pulled to the wanted diameter ...
 

 
... then cut 3 mm pieces and fiddeld them on a 0,1 mm copper wire to avoid unwanted escapes. In the front the test topping lift.
 
Then drilled 0,7 mm holes for the tubes pointing 45° upwards, inserted the tubes, glued them in and cut them to the necessary length ...
 

 
... used a needle to reopen the squeezed holes, put the lift in and glued it by fixing with the needle.
 
And it looks like this:
 

 

 

 
With a little more practice it will for shure look even tidier macro wise, but for the naked eye it already works :-)
 
Cheers, Daniel

Well John putting the bulwark on was tough enough for me. it is amazing what the camera sees that I don't. this is all for now.
 
 
 

 

 

 
Michael
 

I thought that a challenge to build a small model at 1:500 scale similar to the ships in bottles might make a satisfying change from working in 1:8 scale
 

 
 
the hull is carved from a small piece of the English Boxwood

 
 
I decided to use the larger part of the block as a holding jig so I carefully fretted out the profile and plan with a jewelers saw, by not completing the cuts I was able to hold it easily until the end.

 
 
The hull blank was reatached to the cut along the deck line saw cut with a little acc glue.

 
 
The beginning carving most of the actual carving was done with the #11 blade then some files.

 
 
Some .024" holes were drilled for mounting to a board and a similar hole was drilled for the rudder.

 
 
The first trial assembly to get an Idea of how it will look. I think that the mast is a bit big in diameter yet and the hull still needs a bit of fairing in a couple of spots.

 
 
Three quarter from the bow Still a fair ways to go but I am satisfied with the progress this evening.

 
 
The brass tiller is just a placeholder it is a bit on the big side. Next the bowsprit and topmast gaff and boom.
 
Michael

Druxey, thanks for the reference, it does feel a bit like going down the "Wrabbit Whole"
 
I am doing a couple of experiments with the aircraft cable to get the best looking results. the clear plastic is in fact a clear plastic drinking straw By slipping this over the the "served ends" I can work with some line to make the first seizing then slip the straw to do the next one and so on
 

 
I think that it might work in order to do the serving well to avoid this, as you can see the seizing closest to the dead eye is a mess
 

 
The heat shrink has some definite possibilities, the trick will be finding a way to make the whole set up look right.
 
So another journey along the shrouds begins. I'll report the findings.... after the hockey game!
 
Micheal
 
 

Good morning all.
Druxey that is an interesting Idea. The first experiment where i did use the heat shrink over the two parts
 

 I noticed that the shrink wrap would not shrink down any further it seemed to have stretched out in some way that even if the cables were brought back together next to the dead eye the wrap would not shrink down again, this is why I thought about the straw. The straw seemed to be a good form of a clamp. One of the other ideas I had while doing this was to use a short piece of copper tube and use it as a crimp similar to the aluminum ones that you can purchase to crimp cables.
 
I like the idea if being able to wrap the seizings over something that is holding the cables so that the tension is already being held, this will enable the seizings to be wrapped carefully to get the best visual appearance.
 
Today I will try a few tests to see which of these methods will work the best.
 
John, being that I am using stainless aircraft cable I would have thought that moisture would not be a major issue, any metallurgists out there who could shed some light on this?
 
Mark, I am going to see how much the heat shrink closes up on an open end my bigger worry is a snag on a sheet or cloth on an exposed wire strand.
 
Antony, thank you for stopping by and for your kind thoughts. I see you are from Devon My sister lives in Crediton. Last time I was in England visiting my brothers and sister, we traveled over to St Ives, and Lynton and Lynmouth. We also spent a lovely day at Torquay. all great places to see traditional craft.
 
Michael

Most important messages fast set ...  
 

 

... there she sails, the proud frigate, only the storm jib set, driven by the devastating energy of the elements, riding the crests, her flag beaming with pride, being pushed by her crew to the limit, always facing abyss and downfall!
 

 
The crew is fighting the elements, the earth is splashing high, each hand movement is set with precision. With concision our master guides this pride of the austrian mountain marine towards new shores ... 
 

 


  

... my Heart will go ooooo-o-ho-o-n ...


 
 
 
 

... and the crew becomes one.

  
 

 
But what is this? The pilot missed the ship? Still stands on the far off 
shore? This in these extremely difficult waterways? Hastily the crew puts up the blue and yellow flag ...
 

 
  

... but he? He stays calm ...

  
 

 


... he knows that he is best equipped ...

 
 

 
 

... and so he keeps sailing towards Victory :-)
  



 

 
Epilogue:
Sometimes later, I was taken out of that wonderful dream, being sent downhill again. But this moment, I took it with me ☺
 
Liebe Grüße, Daniel
 
The complete story to be found in german:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t532f317-SMS-Trinkstein-in-schweren-Wellenbergen.html

Could you tell me the result please. It's very interesting for me-
 
And now to the idea from Mark
 
I sanded the Main Wales about days and following this I used black stain.
 
How shall I put it?
You are right Mark, it looks mutch better. Thank you, the effort paid off.

 
In fact it's much better to seen as at the photos.
 
And also I planked the Lower Counter

Thanks very much Alexander.
 
Slowly but constant. Here's a new update.
I added the Channel Wale and planks between the Main Wale and the Channel Wale.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Dirk, Kats, Mark, Popeye, Paul, Jan and "Bones" :-) :-) :-)
 
I am already wondering, but nobody dares asking about the title of the thread  ;-)
 
... okokok, before I have to wait too long: dafi, what strange thread title you have ?!?
 
Once upon a time, the shout from the channels was to be heard "By the Deep 17" meaning a little more than 17 fathoms of water were measured, roundabout 30 meters.
 
The line used was  ca. 20 to 25 fathoms long (about 36 to 45 meters) and had marks indicating the depth measured. So the shout "By the Mark XX" meant that it was exactely on the mark and "By the Deep XX" meant it to be above the mark. The marks were at  2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 und 20 fathoms (after Nares) and had :
2 fathoms leather with 2 stripes, 3 fathoms leather with 3 stripes, 5 fathoms white, 7 fathoms red, 10 fathoms leather with hole 13 fathoms blue, 15 fathoms white, 17 fathoms red und 20 fathoms two knots.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sounding_line
 
 
So hastily made the 20 fathom line, fitted marks and lead ...
 

 
... and the sound of the falling lead could be heard  :-)
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
"By the Deep ..."
 
XXXDAn

Am I left handed?  .... well... the answer to that is long and convoluted...
I think by default I am right handed... but it could have gone either way...
I play hockey and golf left handed, I can swing a baseball bat either way (although a bit more effective left handed), tennis right handed. I write right, but apparantly way back when I was first being taught to write, I was constantly switching hands, and my teachers would consistently put the pencil back in my right hand... although for all intents and purposes, my hand writing goes from illegible to atrocious....
 
I'm not ambidextrous.. so who knows what the heck I am....
 
Mark, Peter, Popeye, Aldo, and everyone else, thanks for looking in, I'll try not to let all this positive feedback go to my head.
 
 
Anyway... a small progress report... finished the mizzen shrouds. And yes... I probably wrapped the deadeyes incorrectly, but I'm not changing that now.. it isn't something that really bothers me too much... maybe next time.
 
I've still only left the lanyards secure with a single half hitch and I've also left them a bit overlong. When I get the stay on, then I'll do a final tension adjustment and secure everything properly.
 
Andy
 
 
 

Thanks for looking in John and Lawrence. 
 
Seven pump housings and 10 spears later... I'm ready to fix them into place.  The photo is just for position only.  I went with cherry on the spears as think that once they age some and darken up, they'll provide a nice contrast.  I'm still debating on putting the operating ropes on the two aft ones. 
 


 
Now to start figuring out the capstan... 

Daniel,  As always, love your build log and always learning from it. I thought the following photo was interesting.  Making chain plates for the restoration of the Charles W. Morgan (Whaling Ship) at Mystic Seaport, Conn.

First those at the bowsprit, which gave a small problem in the attaching of the chain plates:
I used a method showed in Andersson: small eyebolts in the bowsprit, and rope lashings:
(my first seizings, took me ages to do)

 
 
 
 
 
It was only later that I discovered that the Ketting-models uses long iron chains for these deadeyes.
 
I wont redo them
 
Thane cam ethe tackles and shrouds of the fore mast:
 

 
 
I had some discussion on the so called 'spreeworsten' (translation?) in the shrouds
Ketting shows them in such a way that they are spreading the shrouds. I followed this Ketting setup (which he aslo used in his model of the Prins Willem). However, some fellow modellers made it quite clear to me that this setup could never ever hold the strains that they woudl take in real life. However, too late to redo  

 
After setting up the shrouds the rattling down started. I finished teh foremast, but when clipping the loose ends, I managed to snap one of the futtocks. That forced me to remove the ratlines on the futtocks and do some surgery on the shroud. Still visible in the rightmost futtock, but acceptable when not viewed in 'macro-mode'
 
At the moment: shrouds is still work in progress:
 

 
As is the rattling down: foremast done, main still to be started....
 
Jan

I did not like the capstan as provided by Corel.
So I made a couple of small changes to her: I made the head thicker, and I rearranged the spokes.

 
It still isn't as Dutch as it shoudl be, but the colours make up for that
 

(no flash used, so the colours are a bit 'off white')
 
Jan

Still updating on my build log (in stead of making any progress on the ship herself )
 
When I was this far in the build (september 2008) I came across the buildlog of Chuck of the Mayflower. 
Apart from all very usefull info in this log (which is gone by now, and will not return, I'm affraid) was some info on how to build a little boat.
Chuck used a number of stacked layers, to form the basic hull, smooting and thinning it up, and use that as a base to add exterior planking, and interior framing.
As Dutch ships (as all ships) should have at least a small boat stowed on the deck, I decided to add this little boat as an extra to the kit.
I downloaded the plan Chuck had in his log, and gave it a go. It worked out pretty well, and was very easy to do (much easier than e.g. working from a plug).
The basic structure:

Outside planking: using walnut, 3.5mm wide.
Flush planking on the bottom, clinker on the sides.
 

Inside framing, using 1x1 mm walnut strips, bend using a soldering iron (there was only a thin
line between severe burning of either fingers and wood and giving them the correct curvature )

 
Bottom planks, and the aft seat installed

I had some problems to do the topside of the railing: it should be around 1 mm high and 3 mm wide (to hide the thicknes of the base-shell), and it should be left-right symmetrical. In the end I opted for the laminated version: I made a mold, and attached three layers of the standard 1x3 mm walnut planks provided with the kit. After drying of the glue, I used a sawe to divide this into two symmetrical 1 mm thick and 3 mm wide planks in the correct curvature.

 
After attaching a details (seats for the rowers, keel, sterns and railings), I decided that this was as far as I would go at detailing the little one. I know that there shoudl be metal work, oars, rudder and so on on the boat, but I though it best to keep the level of detailing of the boat in line with that on the kit in general.
 

 
 The lenght of the boat is 7 cm overall, which nicely fits in with the empty space on the main deck where I stowed her.
 

 
Jan